Talking Together with Grazia Vittadini

That's a very good question, Philippa. Hello everyone, it's a great privilege being with you all today. I wish I could describe a day in my current role, but I haven't been on board that long. I started in November, so slightly over six months, and I haven't had two days that look similar. A lot of planning up front and a lot of disruption, priorities being reshuffled every single day because the world out there keeps changing, no matter how much you plan. It could be the political stakeholder, the university interface, priorities within the team, the budget needing to be reshuffled. There's always a valid reason to start from scratch and reshuffle the cards. So it's particularly important when you work in these dynamic contexts to keep your own balance. We've heard a lot about work-life balance, and I'm absolutely convinced that every single one of us needs to find what works and what doesn't. I know what works for me: I color the slots in my diary different colors to highlight events that draw energy out of me versus events that give me energy. Having chats like this, talking to colleagues, going around different sites, understanding what's on their mind – that gives me a lot of energy. So when I have heavy weeks, I make sure to slip in slots that give me energy. It's a coping strategy that's fundamental for my well-being and mental balance.

I don't think I have one specifically, but certainly there have been moments where I felt absolutely overwhelmed, like too much for me to cope with. I've had such moments from time to time because what drives me is challenges and problems that can be solved – seeing the solution together with the team is motivating. With that attitude, it's normal to feel like you've taken too much sometimes. To overcome these moments, I rely on basics: eat, sleep, take time, walk, get fresh air, talk to people who are not in the same business, who have no clue what you're up to. Sometimes you get pearls of wisdom from a person on the tube. That's a way of coping with being overwhelmed. It's normal and will continue. What's important is not to fall into spirals. I came into this company as Chief Technology Officer, and after one month they added Group Strategy, and then the environmental and sustainability global program as well – so three jobs. It's normal to feel overwhelmed from time to time. I know I just need to step back, breathe, sleep, and tomorrow is another day.

There's only so much you can do in terms of planning and professional experience. There's training and employee assistance programs to look out for you. But something I'm still missing as we get out of the pandemic into an endemic phase: we've learned to be very efficient virtually, but the element of looking out for each other is not that effective virtually. How can you check on your colleagues and enable people who care for you to check on you? Human interaction is still difficult to replace.

How it has changed for me quite radically. If you had asked me what I think about any initiative focused on gender diversity up to my first executive position, I would have politely declined the invitation. My rationale was: do I consider being a woman an advantage? Yes, but I was born this way, I have no merits for it. Why should you underline something that should just be there? Measure me for what I can do, for my experience and competence, and leave me alone. But later, I realized that looking back at my professional journey, there were uncomfortable situations. For example, being introduced as 'our wonderful gorgeous new chief engineer' – would they do that if I were a man? Another time, I reported a success in getting a modification number in two weeks (normally three months) because I sat next to configuration managers and understood what they needed. My boss responded to a colleague's complaint by saying, 'You don't have long black hair, so it will never work with you.' I gathered courage and told my boss that was unacceptable. He said I was too serious, it was a joke, but I insisted it never happen again – and it didn't. I never felt discriminated beyond that, but when I became an executive and more visible, women came to me with horror stories: being asked why they weren't wearing makeup for customers, being given men's clothes in small sizes when women aren't rectangular, being asked about family plans in job interviews – which is illegal. That prompted me to think we need to do something. It's stupid for a company to not harness 50% of resources. We don't have the luxury to disregard half the world's population. So I became more active and vocal. But I learned that being a woman doesn't automatically make someone an ally – there are women as power-hungry as some alpha males. So I'm trying to be less naïve. Still, I'm all in. Things that make me angry, like our company having a certain percentage of women engineers, but only one third of that percentage are acknowledged fellows or experts. Shouldn't we have the same percentage? We have the same universities, same professors, same courses. This makes me angry, and I want to change it. The change that has happened is exciting: now there's more recognition from male allies and the business side that we can't eliminate 50% of talent. But the pace is not there – projections say we'll have equality in access to leadership and salary gaps worldwide in 2095. I don't have that patience. Why not now? A lot of it is knowing yourself for your own well-being. I've seen too many attempts to mold women into cookie-cutter schemes. We need to mentor men and leaders to actively seek diversity, not delegate it to HR. Diversity responds to different criteria. When I recruit, I see wonderful women who start with a pitch about wanting a career and success, but then their real driven personality comes through. They've been told they need to deliver that pitch to be considered successful. That's horrific. So know yourself, and let's start coaching men, perhaps.

There are many different elements. I've gone through leadership trainings and assessment centers, which may not be used at Rolls-Royce currently but in other companies before accessing certain leadership levels. Feedback has confronted me with things that didn't resonate – I wondered who they were talking about. So that's a starting point. Also, reflecting on what gives you energy versus what drains you, as I mentioned earlier. And talking to people outside your field can give you perspective. It's an ongoing process.

It doesn't sound like me. It led me to think, feedback is important. We know it's part of the good leadership toolkit. You need to ask for feedback, you need to give feedback. But to give real accurate feedback, you need to be very interested in human beings. You need to listen. It's like receiving a gift or making a gift. Every year at Christmas I get a pullover from my aunt that is two sizes too big. She's very petite and sees me as a giant, so in her mind everything needs to be extra long. So thank you, auntie, that's a gift. I take it and pack it away. Sometimes you receive gifts that just don't fit. If I had listened to some of the feedback I received—like 'Grazia, you smile too much, you are too expressive, you use your hands too much, be more poker-faced, a real leader never shows emotions'—I would have undermined one of my strengths. People want to work with you because you transmit certain things when you communicate. If I had listened to that feedback, I would have lost that. I hear from many colleagues who were told to deepen their voice to be more credible, or to wear less flowers, be less colorful. That is bullying. If you get that type of feedback, say thank you and put it in a drawer. If you get the same feedback three or four times, then consider it. Otherwise, ignore it.

If we define imposter syndrome as thinking 'Oh my gosh, for some reason I landed this position but when they find out I'm really a no one, it will be embarrassing'—in that shape, not directly. What I constantly feel is doubt whether this time I will make it. This has accompanied me throughout my journey, which went quickly. I started as a subcontractor engineer and in less than 20 years became the first woman on the executive committee. To go fast you need to grow fast, and to grow fast you need to push yourself out of comfort zones. Every time I change, I ask myself, 'Are you scared?' If not, it means it's not big enough. I get into doubting every time: 'Will I get away with it by being who I am, by using common sense, by putting my integrity first?' I never think I'm the smartest person in the room. It's all about the teams. I'm like a bartender mixing it all together. Every time it seems to work, so at least it has in the past. Invite me next year and we can chat.

The type of leadership able to say 'I failed and you succeeded.' The type that creates space for creativity. Creativity is not linear; you can't just tell someone to innovate. It requires zooming out, letting people run with it, and saying 'I trust you, go and do it, and I'm here to take obstacles out of your way.' Big ideas always start small. It's about creating a safe space where people can experiment, fail, adjust, and try again. That's what brings leadership and innovation together.

In my previous role, the guy responsible for electrification came to me and said, 'If we're serious about zero emissions, batteries won't make it. But hydrogen has the potential to be truly zero emission.' I said, 'Go and run with it, see if it flies.' That was the start of a journey that led to a whole program on hydrogen flight. It started very small—a bit of money and resources to explore. Sometimes that's all it takes.

That's a good question. When I decided to leave my previous role, I didn't have a new position yet. I examined many options, but I knew my heart would decide. On the Rolls-Royce file, the biggest risk I identified was Warren leaving. I believe you should pick your boss first. Warren had a certain amount of runway left, and I wondered how long it would be. I took the decision anyway. Then Anita came in as chairwoman. I got to know her, and she made changes. I'm convinced they will pick the right person—someone with the right values and acumen. It won't be Warren, because there's only one Warren, but it will be fine. I trust Anita and the board. When Warren told me the announcement was imminent, I felt mentally safe. I realized I trust the board; they're incredible professionals who want the best for Rolls-Royce.

Absolutely.

My trajectory was not linear. In Milan, I attended a classical high school focused on Latin, Greek, music, poetry, art, philosophy—along with math and physics. My dad encouraged my curiosity about airplanes and taking things apart. He took me to museums and read stories about explorers and aviators. My mom is a mathematician, my dad an engineer, but both loved arts and music. So I had all ingredients: I dreamed of becoming a pilot while studying classical music at the conservatory and training as a ballet dancer. My application to the Italian Air Force was declined because I was a woman. So I thought, 'If you don't let me fly them, I'll build them.' I studied aeronautical engineering, specializing in aerodynamics, but kept music and ballet. For my thesis, I designed a ballet shoe sole using aerospace materials—aramidic fibers and composites. The Americans later patented a thermoplastic solution, but it was a good idea. That's my story.

My journey had zigzags. I wanted to be chief engineer of a fully recyclable aircraft, but that didn't materialize. Instead, I took roles nobody else wanted—big challenges, difficult transformations. I never had a shiny, relaxing position. Then I became head of corporate internal audit and forensic investigations for three years. I learned a lot about governance and different divisions. I took detours, but they were all useful. It's about figuring out what works for you.

Don't take any advice. Really. What worked for me isn't a universal recipe. You need to figure out who you are, what makes you happy. Don't cut yourself to fit a template. If your heart isn't in it, you won't be happy, and neither will those around you. Know yourself—it's a lifelong journey. Accept your strengths and weaknesses. Build a team to complement your weaknesses. Be authentic, even if it means not getting a shiny job. That's the road to take. Be yourself, stick to it, and set aside certain feedback.

You give us energy and we give you all the energy in the room. Green tickets in your calendar. Philippa, Stephanie, Bethany, thank you for your time and energy. I felt it and had a great time. Looking forward to continuing the dialogue. Let's go find more female fellows and change that percentage.