Mrs. Grazia Vittadini: Italian Aerospace Executive, Former CTO of Airbus #womeninspace #space4all

Please call me Grazia. Gedika, it is such a pleasure to be with you today. Thanks for having me.

Sure. Well, the aerospace industry as a whole today is really at a very critical juncture, I'd say. We've made some very bold sustainability commitments which just cannot be achieved using existing technologies, and this applies to air and space alike. Airplanes, helicopters, satellites, launchers, drones, you name it. Technology is and remains definitely a key enabler to a sustainable future of the industry overall. When I started serving Airbus as Chief Technology Officer back in 2018, solving environmental issues really became the most obvious and urgent challenge. It's incredibly complex to achieve this goal, given the complexity of our products. We need to develop very many different technologies and solutions at the same time. You can't just focus on one single solution. So you will have sustainable aviation fuels, alternative propulsion like hydrogen, artificial intelligence is a fundamental enabler, autonomous technologies are helping us, but also novel materials or even very advanced computing techniques, quantum technologies, and so on and so forth. All this needs to happen concurrently and coherently until we will have a zero-emission, more intelligent, accessible flight for all of humanity and clean space, of course, and zero noise for all flights. I'd really like to think that my greatest contribution still lies ahead.

This is a very good question, Gedika, because it was a kind of a jump into something I didn't quite know how things would pan out, and if at all. I really left my country chasing the dream of aerospace. I wanted to continue growing and developing in aerospace in an aerospace industry, and I told myself, 'Grazia, you just try it for three months, and if it doesn't work, you can always come back.' That was 2000, and I never came back. My starting at Airbus was amazing. I started in the northern part of Germany, in the city of Hamburg, and I started as a temporary workforce, so I did not have a permanent contract, but that was okay because the dream of pursuing developing an aircraft together with other thousands of brilliant engineers was just too big. So I just started as a temp, and then gradually I became a permanent employee of the company, working on the A380, four-engine double deck, 550-plus passengers, the most loved aircraft by passengers as of today. And working with other like-minded colleagues from all over the world, not only Europe, really without boundaries, everybody hell-bent to pioneer aerospace solutions, not accepting the sky as the limit. That was absolutely my type of thing. And it also gave me the chance, with the first money I earned, to go for my pilot license. And so that runway around which we were building the A380 was also the first runway from which I took off as a pilot. So really difficult to describe that emotion, that feeling. And that's where it all started, my journey in aerospace.

It is a bit destabilizing, if you pass me the expression. But you know, I had already some training because when I was nine years old, my whole family moved to the United States. My dad was supposed to, he's always been working very much abroad as a telecommunication engineer, and he was supposed to stay in Texas for three months. After a year, my mom said, 'You know what, we're coming.' I was nine, my brother was five, and my mom was expecting my other brother. So it is a bit destabilizing because you need to start from scratch, reorient yourself, learn new languages. But it is so, so, so enriching, really, to open up and let different cultures, traditions, languages just sink in and embrace the country hosting you in all its aspects. It is something absolutely which brings you forward and enhances also your understanding of the world. There is no good or bad or better or worse, it's just a matter of being different, and being a part of this wonderful planet.

Definitely, definitely good to go. This is really one of my favorite topics, talking about the sustainability of space. Basically, when we mention debris, we mean space junk. Picture this: more than 40,000 objects flying out there, floating around the Earth orbit, and many, many more too small to be tracked, all around our planet. Some are generated by satellites orbiting around the Earth no longer operative, decaying. Back in the past, if I remember well, it was 2009, I believe there was even an impact of two satellites, which really generated an enormous amount of debris. There was another satellite which exploded. We're talking about thousands and thousands of bits and pieces really polluting the orbits around the Earth. So basically, debris is all what flies out there and does not have a purpose. Now, objects above 10 centimeters can be tracked, and a lot of resources are being invested to track exactly the positioning of these bits and pieces around our planet so that satellites in case of emergency can divert, can maneuver to avoid the collision. These are the biggest parts of debris floating out there. But there's also the category between one and ten centimeters, which is very difficult to track if not impossible, and poses a significant risk because it can impact another satellite. Satellites normally are shielded, but there is the risk that a shield will not be enough. There is a risk of it impacting a spaceship, and we don't want to hinder space exploration. The problem unfortunately is increasing because as you certainly know, there are so many satellite constellations being launched. We're talking about thousands and thousands of additional small satellites which really pose a significant threat to other satellites and to space exploration. So there are different ways to cope with this incredible challenge for humanity. Leave no trace: all current satellites need to be designed in order to have on board a post-mission disposal type of mechanism, so that when a satellite stops operating, it goes out of orbit by itself, gets burned through the atmosphere, and if any parts remain, these fall into the ocean. Now, is this something we believe is sustainable on the long term? I do not, absolutely. So I'm a strong advocate of the fact that tomorrow we need to be in a position to develop in-orbit services in order to repair, refuel, repurpose basically inoperative satellites floating out there. And maybe not tomorrow but the day after tomorrow, I really believe we will need to actively clean up, so debris remediation missions, active debris removal, is definitely something we're going to need to invest in for the sake of our planet, of the space around it, of humanity, and space travel.

Okay, again, this is a very difficult question because I've been around a lot at Airbus. I've been on very many different missions, and it would really be difficult to single out one single project. One thing I will definitely never forget is the first flights. When you work on an aircraft, be it because you design a part or an assembly concept, and then that aircraft takes to the air for the first time, this is something absolutely difficult to describe. The emotions are very, very special. And matching that, similar to that, is when a satellite you have been following, contributing to with your teams, is launched, and the first time you switch on the solar arrays and they start recharging, and the satellite slowly comes to life enough to start its travel. At Airbus, electrical propulsion for satellites is the new standard for telecom satellites, and so seeing the satellite starting its journey towards the final orbit is something really indescribable. Yes, the work that you have been a part of, and it's like actually there it is, actually doing something. I can just imagine it sounds amazing and like a wonderful experience to see your work come to life.

This is a very insightful question because indeed originally I had a plan. When I started at Airbus, I would have loved to be the chief engineer of the new narrow-body aircraft, and I pictured it being totally recyclable, all metallic, modular, low cost, very easy to operate. But then things took a different turn. Why? Because basically along the way, doors were open to me and perspectives were shown to me which I didn't even know existed. So I think it is really fundamental to have a dream, to have an ambition, but then this should not keep you from having a tunnel vision. So keep your options open always, because the world out there is so big and you cannot think you know everything in advance. And sometimes the opportunities are just unplanned opportunities, a pity to be left unexploited.

Well, I grew up in Italy and in the United States. My basic education was more into the liberal arts: literature, I did Latin, New Greek, philosophy. My house was always full of music, a lot of art, opera. I trained as a professional ballet dancer. But I was always fascinated by airplanes since I was a very little girl. I had this ritual with my dad every year: we'd go to the Museum of Science and Technology, spending hours into the aircraft pavilion. So I always loved airplanes, but I loved many other things at the same time. So if you ask me what did you want to be when you were a young girl, well, it did fluctuate very much from being a commercial pilot, a military pilot, an astronaut, a ballerina, a firewoman, I had it all, an archaeologist, a lawyer. I really did go zigzag, I didn't go straight to the point. And at a certain point, when I was a teenager back in Italy, I decided I want to fly airplanes, I want to be a military jet fighter pilot. But at that time, girls were not allowed to fly military jets in Italy. Luckily things have changed, but back then that's how things were. And so I just said to myself, 'You know what, if I can't fly them, well I'm going to build them.' And that's how I turned to engineering, and aerospace engineering specifically. So the interest was always there. I think the common denominator between all these different options has always been curiosity, and hands-on attitude. I've always loved repairing my motorcycle, my bike, and keeping my mind open to new things. So curiosity and willingness to learn.

Well, I would say there have been many obstacles. The course of studies I picked, aerospace engineering and aerodynamics as a specialization, is not simple. And there were not many girls back then, we were something like one percent. So you always are a bit the odd one in the bunch. You kind of get used to it with time, but it's always difficult to find that sense of belonging when you're always the one not fitting into the scheme. But that kind of became also my common denominator across all which accompanied me throughout my journey in the industry. And what prompted me to leave Italy: I could have had some jobs not far from my city, from Milan, I would have been comfortable close to my parents, to my friends, etc. But I really figured that would have been a compromise I wasn't ready to accept because I wanted to stay in the industry totally fascinated by aviation, by space. And that was an important decision point which prompted me to leave my country. Then throughout all the different steps of my journey within Airbus, as I mentioned, I've been around a lot, I've changed a lot of jobs. The company Airbus is so big, every time you change job, you change division or department, you have to start from scratch again. And there are great people at Airbus, and they wonder, 'What are you doing here? What is your added value? What do you bring to the picture?' So every time you need to find in yourself the resources to contribute at best and bring together the best people and achieve objectives which are very, very challenging. So I think my life was full of challenges in that sense, and I always managed using them to grow and to demonstrate to myself, 'You can do it, you can do it.'

Well, it's a bit of a mix of different tactics, let's say. I used, you know, when I landed in Germany, I was again the only woman at that time, relatively young, working on that year by year, and of course the only Italian. So you get the jokes: 'Ah, Italy, spaghetti, pizza,' and so on and so forth. Rather than taking it personally, I played along. So I, in a couple of occasions, invited my colleagues for breakfast or brought food in the office to demonstrate, 'Yes, and we do it better.' So you very often also have jokes which are in the gray zone; you can reply to with humor. But you always need to know very well where the boundaries are, and never be afraid to speak in case it gets uncomfortable for you being the only person of a certain gender or ethnic background, nationality, whatever. That did happen also in a couple of occasions. And you may think it's absolutely harmless, but okay, when you get introduced as 'our beautiful new manager,' etc., etc., yes, okay, thank you, but that's not what I'm here for. And so I had to say, 'Thank you, and please don't do it anymore, I don't feel comfortable with that.' So I think it's very important to know where the line is, not to take too personally remarks you will hear. Very often it's just a matter of not being used to have diversity around the table. So it's a matter of playing a bit along; humor is always a good way to stop certain jokes from rolling on. And if it gets uncomfortable, speak immediately, immediately.

We kind of touched upon the topic already at the beginning, and that's really the topic of sustainability. Sustainability as a whole is a challenge for the whole industry of aviation and space. And what makes me nervous in a way is that we don't have solutions yet. We have different solutions we're working on, we are persuaded that there are certain technology pathways which are very promising, we need to continue working in this direction. But I would lie to you if I told you I know exactly how this all will pan out and it will work and no worries. If this were the case, we wouldn't be doing anything different. So the whole industry is really going through a crossroads point and joining forces to tackle the problem of CO2 emissions for aviation, of noise emissions (let's not forget noise, that's something you don't touch but it's pollution in a different way), and definitely materials. Ideally, our products shall be completely recyclable at the end of their service life, and also the way we manufacture and assemble our products shall be as neutral as possible in terms of impact on the resources of our planet. And indeed, I've seen some wonderful documentaries around the problem of the ocean. The ocean 20, 30, 40 years ago was also considered infinitely big, and therefore not much attention was given to what we were putting in there. And space is similar. Space is huge, we're talking about trillions of cubic miles, and for many, space is still empty. But if we do not adopt today solutions to make sure that we leave nothing behind when we launch rockets, when we put in orbit satellites, then probably not the next generation but the one right after will have a problem leaving the planet, exploring space. So this is definitely something for which there is no immediate solution, and the technology to actively remove debris from space is not quite there. But I have absolutely great hopes and conviction that we will get there eventually.

Well, first of all, the challenges I mentioned are just humongous, they're huge. And just as there will be no single technology to tackle all these challenges, there will be no single individual. So we need everyone on board, everyone with what they have to bring into solving this challenge. So if I'd have to really pick one message to all young people out there maybe considering whether they should embrace a STEM career or not, my advice is: do it, just do it. Because there's no more exciting place to be. There's place for everyone. And again, with all your elements of diversity, we need you, we need you. So be yourself, bring along all what you have to bring. Follow your passion, follow your passion, because that will be the greatest fuel to propel you throughout your journey and to help you overcome and grow through any obstacle you will find.

Thank you. It's been a great pleasure. Keep in touch.