Patrick Lammers (Essent) over de toekomst van energiebedrijven

We have very clear areas of work. For example, commercial is my domain; I do everything financial—treasury, planning, control, accounting—that my colleague does. But together we look at what's happening in companies around us. Additionally, I have a number of clear posts. I steer my own agenda, major programs, and big decisions. He doesn't see it often, and that structure is no secret. I don't want to sail blindly.

Well, I see it more often. I think if you're mature enough, you can align on themes and content, and also as people. That's very important to us: it's really a match. Not necessarily who you are as a person, but sharing enormous values. We feel exactly the same about how we set our norms and values. And which are those? Integrity, people must be able to radiate that, work must be done properly, no waste, and be truly open to each other. Then you can be very different, but if you share those things, cooperation becomes very easy and you understand each other well.

I think 'all forces' mainly means not paying out dividends, keeping a lot of money within the club. That was a bit of a shock in Germany. Many shareholders want to see that dividend; nearly a quarter of RWE's shareholders are municipalities and provinces that really need that money. So there are plans to keep it within the company for years. It's about many millions. In the past, not so long ago—just five years ago—when electricity prices were normal, huge dividends were paid out due to green energy subsidies. Shareholders were very happy. Nothing was happening in that market; it was a nice, quiet, stable market. We have large power plants that produce the same amount, and you get the same money for that. That was very lucrative. But that world has changed in the last five or six years.

That's exactly what it's about. You have to try to separate the new business from the old company. Being integrated makes no sense. So we have the new business, basically the customer business, the network companies (which have concessions), and we have a new part in Eastern Europe. To grow, you need financial elbow room; otherwise you always operate with one arm behind your back. People wonder: what will happen with those big coal plants, gas plants, nuclear plants in Germany? That requires huge investments. Investors need certainty. There is still no certainty about nuclear, coal, or gas agendas. That causes problems when you want to invest in the other part of your business, which is quite large—tens of thousands of people work there and serve millions of customers. So we said: OK, we'd better split the company. They will continue their own lives, and while we try to optimize what happens in the old company, we grow the new business. Instead of dragging the old one along, we accelerate the transition. It reminds me of the Kodak moment. They had the digital camera but didn't use it; they kept selling film. The rest is history. To what extent do you risk not chasing that digital camera hard enough? And if the fossil market stops much faster than predicted?

That perception exists, yes. But you have to understand: 8% of an average person's income goes to their energy bill. So the government always looks at availability, reliability, affordability, and now sustainability. It's a huge item. In the past, it had to be available, reliable, and affordable. Now sustainability is added. Customers themselves are becoming more active, with solar panels, heat pumps, storage. That makes the market much more dynamic. The Netherlands is at the forefront; countries like England, Netherlands, and Belgium are heavily regulated. In other countries like Hungary, we sold our customer business because it was so regulated that you couldn't earn a decent living. So you have to stop.

Well, perception is tricky. I always say: we need energy. You can't store it easily; it flows through the grid. If you don't use it, it's still in the system. So regulation is necessary. But we also have to recognize that if you stop fossil energy tomorrow, you'd have a huge problem. When the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow, you need backup. It's like smoking: everyone had to stop, but now you see people in cars without seatbelts. Times change. The transition is happening, but it must be manageable. I hear Shell CEOs or others talking about the end of the fossil era in 2040. That's 25 years. How long will it really take? It depends on how much we agree internationally and what remains affordable. If energy costs rise sharply, it affects the economy. So we need to see how fast renewables become cheaper. That's happening faster and faster. Modern wind turbines produce more, solar panels are cheaper. You put them on your own roof. So we have to think about what's coming.

I'm convinced that green energy is where everyone wants to go. But it has to be easy, transparent, and make customers happy—warmer homes, less heat loss, possibly even cooler in summer. We want to make it easier for the customer, like the digital camera did. We are working on expanding the Nest thermostat, offering insulation, heat pumps, and full home energy management. We want to be more than just an energy company; we want to be your home manager. We're investing in service partners, technicians who come to your home to fix things. We're also looking at business models where we do the work and you pay less because you use less energy.

The government is naturally volatile, fragmented. There are ideas about being interventionist or letting the market work. My preference is to let the market do its work. We are looking at a company in the US, Powerhouse, which acts as an online broker for energy. That model can work for individuals and businesses, especially as regulations like net metering disappear. We're also researching new techniques with our German colleagues. We want to expand internationally, like in Belgium. Over the next two years, we are not just an energy company; we are a service and solutions provider. We have a 'chief strategy officer' who is actually working in Silicon Valley to prove the business case for Powerhouse. So we are transforming. We're selling some parts and growing others. It's an exciting time.

Energy company would be too narrow. We'll be much more of a service and solutions provider. We're doing lots of research, working with colleagues in Germany to develop new technology. We want to bring that to market and expand internationally. It's an interesting time. People often say the energy sector is a boring sector, but it's not. The old system was valid five years ago, but now it's very volatile. I personally find it fun because you learn a lot, you have to change your frame of reference, bring in new talent, grow, let go of things. What's better than that? It's like having a 20-year-old as chief strategy officer—actually, we don't have one; that person is in Silicon Valley building a business case for Powerhouse. So we have good people working on strategy. I wish you a lot of success with everything related to E.ON. Thank you for being my guest.