How can CFOs use their platform to advance the sustainability agenda / Michael Mueller, RWE

What happens to RWE is probably a very good mirror of what happens to the whole economy. I mean, we are an energy supplier that comes from a very traditional fossil portfolio, and our strategy is to become carbon neutral by 2040. That obviously means huge investments into renewables and at the same time phasing out conventional generation in a socially responsible manner. To do that, you need large investments, and that's where financing comes into play. So we need funding for that huge transition of our company, and therefore we have just issued a new green bond which was highly successful. We have introduced sustainable KPIs for our revolving credit facility, and we're also financing our renewable projects by project financing, or in the US, tax equity financing. So all these are sustainability-linked financing instruments that we're employing.

Well, I think you're making a good point. I think it's all about communication. You need to explain to investors, and I think one aspect that is very crucial for us is if you start from a very CO2-intense portfolio but you have a clear strategy to phase out CO2-intense generation and invest into the new world, you need to properly communicate that to investors because what you don't want is that they just look at the status quo. You really want to convince them that you are in a transition and that you apply the maximum speed of transition in order to meet the goals by the dates that we've set. It seems it's going to take more. No company can do it alone.

That's indeed a good question. When you look at the energy industry, it's probably one of the earlier industries that was kind of forced to enter into that transition, and to be honest, it also took quite some time for us to pick up the speed. I think by now we are really on our journey and very convinced to move at maximum speed. And I think the experience we gained on that journey, and obviously also our products — green power, also hydrogen — are products that can facilitate the transition also of other industries. That's why currently we're also engaging with our customers, supporting them with the knowledge we have but also with our products. A good example is we just communicated a cooperation with BASF where we jointly want to build a new offshore wind farm, and then BASF would be the off-taker for that green energy and use that to switch petrochemical plants — chemical plants they currently have — into electric-run plants. So these are the kind of measures we need to approach jointly. So it's interesting, it's the services cross-industry, cross-customer type of cooperation.

Well, I would answer in two directions. One is obviously we're talking about large investments and also longer-term investments. When you as an investor do a longer-term investment, you want to have security or kind of stable regulatory frameworks. So I think it's very key that the government is providing that governmental frame that provides security for investments. I think the second one is we will have that discussion between the goal to decarbonize but then it's also the social interest of individuals, but also the question about how do we keep the industry still in our countries. Because in the end, we don't help the environment if our industries move to other countries. I think finding the right balance between these elements, that's where governments and politicians need to help.

Well, first of all, I would say it's not a contradiction. I think you can perfectly meet the investors' wishes if you invest heavily into sustainability and transition your business model. And secondly, I think there's also a large chance for you as a company if you really do that transition — move your strategy towards sustainability — because that opens new opportunities and, as I said in the beginning, also de-risks your company going forward.