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Brendan Nelson
Group Chairman, HSBC

the Hon. Dr Brendan Nelson AO delivers 2020 John Monash Oration presented by the Commonwealth Bank

🎥 Oct 21, 2020 📺 General Sir John Monash Foundation ⏱ 60m
The John Monash Oration is a signature event that takes place annually in partnership with the Commonwealth Bank which ...
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Transcript (18 segments)
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Jillian Siegel0:25
Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the General Sir John Monash 2020 Oration. Firstly, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land, wherever you might be, but in my case the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, and pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging. I'm Jillian Siegel, the Chairman of the John Monash Foundation. Today I'm joined by our orator and John Monash scholar who will speak in reply. We are joined by many CBA clients and John Monash supporters and scholars. It's not as fun as seeing you all in person, but I do hope you enjoy this virtual oration and still find it stimulating and worthwhile. We're hosted today by the Commonwealth Bank, which has been a supporter of the John Monash Foundation for over 10 years, in fact since 2004. They've had 10 scholarships to date, so they have been absolutely wonderful partners. Our actual host is going to be speaking shortly, Andrew Hinchliffe. So let me introduce Andrew. Andrew is the Group Executive Institutional Banking and Markets. After a career at Credit Suisse and Goldman Sachs before CBA, he is now a very important person at CBA, keeping the wheels of commerce turning, which in this period we're in is absolutely critical. Our orator this year is the Honourable Dr Brendan Nelson AO, whose CV you have. In addition to his past government and ambassadorial roles and his current role as Chairman of Boeing Australia, he was also the Director of the Australian War Memorial from 2012 to 2019. It's really during that time that I got to know Brendan very well, because I had the privilege of being on the War Memorial board. I can speak to the profound influence that Brendan had on the War Memorial, not only cementing it as a repository of amazing Australian stories but of Australian values. He is personally inspiring and very committed to Australia, so it's extremely fitting that Brendan will speak to us today about leadership, faith, and trust in times of adversity, and the power of Australian stories. Brendan will speak for about 25 minutes. Then I will introduce the 2013 BHP Germany scholar, Jillian Kilby, to reply, and Andrew Hinchliff will field questions at the conclusion of Julian Kilby's response. So please feel free to send them in virtually. Now I'm going to hand over to Brendan. Welcome to the microphone.
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Brendan Nelson3:39
Thank you very much, Jillian, for your generous introduction and for bestowing upon me the privilege of delivering the 2020 Sir John Monash Oration. To Andrew Hinchliffe, Group Executive for Institutional Banking and Markets for the Commonwealth Bank, to your employees, shareholders, and clients, thank you for your support. I recognize the Gadigal clan of the Eora people, the traditional Aboriginal people upon whose land we gather here in Sydney today. So ends a life lived to the full, through peace, through war, through honored peace again, from youth unto the closing of his day, lived simply yet a giant among men. So wrote C.J. Dennis in October 1931. I dedicate what I'm about to say to Australia's nurses in the year of the nurse in the midst of a pandemic and a crisis unknown to my generation. And specifically, I speak to the John Monash scholars. I have learned that leadership can't be taught but can be learned. The qualities are discovered through observation and reflection. The power is in the story. President Kennedy said a nation reveals itself in those it chooses to lead and those it chooses to honor. Those who question determine whether we use power or power uses us. Some lead from position, others from principle, occasionally both. John Monash was such a man. He was of Prussian descent, proudly Jewish, an engineer and arts graduate, a civilian soldier who led the Australian Corps to stunning victories in 1918. He was knighted in the field by George V. He repatriated 160,000 soldiers in 18 months, led the State Electricity Commission, Rotary, and the reconstruction of the Shrine of Remembrance. He was the most respected Australian through the 1920s. He said to young Australians, 'Adopt as your life creed to improve yourself not just for your benefit but for the benefit of the entire community.' When asked to lead an insurrection, he said the only hope for Australia lies in the ballot box and an educated electorate. To the John Monash scholars: you won't appreciate the value of your youth until it's gone. Our physical health, families, Australian citizenship – these things did not just happen; they have been sustained through the leadership of men and women like Sir John Monash. On June 3, 2017, three terrorists attacked on London Bridge. One woman, an Australian nurse, Kirsty Bowden from Adelaide, ran in the opposite direction. Her last words were, 'I'm a nurse, I have to go.' She was one of eight killed. Her family said she was selfless, caring, and brave. What makes some of us selfless? What makes us Australian? It's our values, the way we relate to one another, shaped by those we choose to honor. On February 16, 1942, 22 Australian nurses were massacred on Radji Beach. One survivor, Vivian Bullwinkle, saw Matron Irene Drummond say to the nurses, 'Where there is life, there is hope.' As the Japanese set up machine guns, Bullwinkle said there was no hysteria. They called the names of those they loved. Drummond's final words were, 'Chins up, girls, I'm proud of you. I love you all.' In the depths of adversity, she offered hope. At the Australian War Memorial, the Hall of Memory has 15 stained-glass windows with words chosen by Charles Bean and John Treloar: resource, candor, devotion, curiosity, independence, comradeship, ancestry, patriotism, chivalry, loyalty, coolness and control, restraint, audacity, courage, endurance, decision. These values define character. We are here today because of the character of John Monash. To the scholars: we look to you to build the intellectual architecture for this country, to ensure that we live on environmental interest instead of capital, to defend our nation, interests, and values. Success relies on four things: a mind open to other people and ideas; inner integrity of your intellect; character; and the imaginative capacity to see the world through the eyes of others. Sir John Monash showed us that if all economic and scientific problems were solved, all important questions would remain. We remember Homer, but we don't remember who discovered the wheel. Thank you.
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Jillian Siegel26:46
Well, thank you so much, Brendan, for what I can only describe as a tour de force, quite an amazing rendition of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I think so wonderfully put in the context of General Monash, the purpose for the foundation and the work we do with our scholars. The values you spoke of, particularly those written in relation to the War Memorial, are what we look for in our scholars. Your statement that the future belongs to them and we are looking to them, we feel very proud that we have at this point 202 scholars, all of whom we think exhibit those values. They are all people of character who are trying to serve others. There is no more perfect example than the person I'm about to introduce, someone with a very similar name: Jillian Kilby. She is a 2013 scholar who the foundation sponsored to study a Master of Business Administration and a Master of Public Policy at Stanford University. She had a Bachelor of Civil Engineering with first-class honors and was the Australian Young Professional Engineer of the Year and Sydney University's Young Alumni of the Year. She established her own boutique infrastructure advisory business focused on regional Australia. In 2018, as the New South Wales Rural Woman of the Year, she purchased a 133-year-old heritage post office in Dubbo and became the founder and CEO of The Exchange, a co-working space built to empower the brave. Exactly where Brendan focused is where Jillian's life's work is still ahead of her. Can I invite her to come and reply on behalf of the scholars?
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Jillian Kilby29:47
Thank you so much, Jillian. It's a delight to a curious mind to have the opportunity to sit here and listen to Brendan in person. It takes courage to stand up here after him. I'm focusing on two of Brendan's values: courage and curiosity. The topic is that the threshold to trust is rising. Brendan dedicated his speech to our nurses, a group we wholly trust. However, the threshold within Australia to trust is rising. I walked off a farm near Walgett in northwest New South Wales and onto the campus of Stanford University. Back when I was growing up, the bush wasn't a place for unusual changes in your life trajectory. I was giving up an established infrastructure advisory business, regional clients, lifestyle, partner, two black Labradors. This level of change wasn't normal. Leadership is about curiosity and courage to break new ground, to trust in oneself, one's ideas, and those around you. I was embracing the unknown, described as the opportunity to contribute to the infrastructure debate at the most senior level. I was currently the boots on the ground in the regions for infrastructure. It's not a clear linear step to shut a small business to study business to re-emerge. When Brendan spoke about having an open mind and being courageous, I was faced with commentary that I was giving up what everyone else wanted to achieve. Brendan has had three distinct and incredible careers where he's
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Jillian Siegel32:42
Reached the peak each time in as little as 62 years. John Monash. Every Monash scholar, and including myself, we enjoy distinct changes in our lives as a result of a Monash scholarship. For me, the characteristics of leadership that are most important, the ability that gives us the ability to embrace change, is this: curiosity, courage, joy, integrity, and the trust of those people around us. Interestingly, in a study of people in their final days of life, talked about these characteristics often as being regrets: not being courageous enough, not being curious enough, not seeking out more joy, not trusting and loving this small group of people around us. In times of adversity, and when adversity becomes this new norm that we're in today, the thresholds to trust rise, and the ability for everyone to come along on the journey with you is so powerful. And this is what John Monash was able to do so well. He was known for bringing people along on the journey. At this time of my life, the Monash selection panel said to me, 'What do you see as leadership?' And I told the story of a post-war John Monash returning to lead the State Electricity Commission in Victoria, and the premier of the day had denied Monash a million pounds to roll out a consistent network of power across Victoria. Upon denial of the money, Monash walked into the premier's office unannounced, and the whole room stood to greet him. Leadership is not an appointment to the highest position of authority. And Brendan spoke about this, that leadership is not your position, it's your principles. And Monash had both. Leadership is seen as the wave of people who rise to meet you along your way. And as thresholds to trust rise in adversity, I want to know how you and how our scholars, how their stories and their presence will rise to influence others in their leadership. Leadership is about curiosity, it's about courage to break new ground, and it's about the pursuit of ethical goals through your influence. I went to Stanford to chase a goal to become a trusted professional, so maybe one day I would be walking in behind closed doors to define Australia's infrastructure. And today I do it from Zoom, and I do it through cloud-based software that helps organizations know when their projects are shovel-ready and advocate for funding across Australia. This is not something I had before I became a Monash scholar. This is something I learned as a result of my degree and my time in Silicon Valley. Leadership is about curiosity and courage to break new ground, to trust in one's ideas that change the way things have always been done. There's this fantastic quote stenciled into the concrete as you walk onto the Stanford University campus, and it says, 'There comes a time in every life when the past recedes and the future opens. Some will walk into the unknown, and some will go back to where they came. I cannot tell you which way is right, but I can tell you which way is more fun.' And leadership is about the joy we create along the way. And walking out of my MBA and public policy masters, I chose the fun unknown of starting a business in America. And it's hard to believe that a girl from the bush could walk in and advise the California High-Speed Rail Authority. It's not a surprise, and it's not hard to believe that after a couple of years, that girl returned to Australia, and no sooner had the plane hit the tarmac than I asked for the pilot to take me over the other side of the Blue Mountains. Leadership is curiosity and courage to break new ground, even if you're returning to old territory. Two of the most exciting moments for the Monash Foundation is when they award the scholarships and when those scholars return home. For me, it's not enough to return to Australia and continue delivering infrastructure advice. How do you pay forward the most incredible opportunity of your life? There was this sticky problem I'd been wanting to solve for some time. It's how do you lead a movement of change to bring confidence to people who want to start and scale their businesses? And believe it or not, confidence was my greatest challenge. Courage was my challenge running a small business in the regions. And it simply disappeared one day for me. And Monash gave me the opportunity, while low in confidence, high in ambition, to go to Silicon Valley to learn to be the best, bravest version of myself. And when I came back to Australia, it was surprising to find an abandoned heritage building in the main street of Dubbo, a 133-year-old post office, and to see the paint peeling away as buyer after buyer was unable to purchase. I left the fear behind that this project was too hard. I wrote a letter to the CEO of Telstra and purchased the building with the intention to convert it into Australia's best co-working space. But as the threshold to trust continues to rise, I had to demonstrate that I would lead a social movement from that building. And it was my story of leaving regional Australia with confidence low, ambition high, to solve this problem that I once faced, was what won the day with that organization. Leadership is courage to break new ground, but the story is the most powerful tool you carry along your way. Serendipitously, we come full circle here at the Commonwealth Bank today. This is the organization that stepped in six weeks before settlement as my trusted financial partner. They trusted my intentions, and I had the courage to borrow the money to make this dream a reality. And as the scaffolding came down and the grand renovation of Dubbo's most important heritage icon was complete, The Exchange opened. It was at that time that I got a hot pink card in the mail from a young girl, eight years old, following our journey on Instagram. We've never met, but for her, she was watching something transform in the regions that she couldn't see in the city. The card said she had begun to think there were very few things that are indeed really impossible. When the Deputy Prime Minister visited The Exchange last month, he asked how we knew, how we predicted the future that thousands of people would move to the region and take up co-working as the new normal. And my reply was to remind him that I am a John Monash scholar. I've been afforded an education with the purpose of leading Australia to new places, even if those new places are simply borrowed from other countries. In closing, there are three reasons I am here today: curiosity, courage, and trust. On curiosity, I'm here because the Monash Foundation were curious enough to find out about me and trust me with the opportunity to go to California, carrying the same suitcase that took me from boarding school to the bush and back again. Education is so important to my farming family, and I'm so grateful to join a second family in the Monash Foundation. Courage, I'm also here today because John Russell Gratton, my great-grandfather, served at the Battle of Messines. Jack, as they called him, fought in the 33rd Battalion of the 9th Brigade in the 3rd Division of the 1st AIF, and fortunately he was only wounded in action at Hill 60 on the 7th of June 1917, which is a hundred years before that woman, that nurse, our Australian nurse, Kirsty Bowden, ran onto that bridge in London. Selfless, caring, and brave were Brendan's words. My great-grandfather fought under the leadership of John Monash as a 3rd Division commander, and being shot meant he took the Runic ship back to Australia and a soldier's settlement block over the Great Dividing Range in Urala. And thirdly, trust. I'm here as an emergent leader in of regional Australia, paying forward the education I have been grateful to receive. And while I break new ground with my work, I would like to ensure there are more scholars coming behind me. As we approach the 20-year anniversary of the Monash Foundation, giving to scholars for 20 years, it's my turn to rise to their leadership. And I make my commitment through a financial donation today, one of many commitments that will be made by scholars to a Scholars Circle to ensure new scholars have opportunities. This is scholars rising to meet scholars. I will be one of many scholars that rise to celebrate 20 years of giving in this way. The threshold of trust is rising, and it's time to put trust in the next generation through the Australian John Monash Foundation. Leadership is not an appointment to the highest position of authority. Leadership is seeing the rise and the wave of people who come to meet you along the way. Thank you.
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Jillian Kilby42:48
Thank you very much, Jillian. What an exceptional response and what an exceptional example of the output of the John Monash Foundation. And to Brendan Nelson, thank you for such a, I think probably the best leadership speech I have seen, and certainly without a written note. It was really quite extraordinary. And what I've taken away from both of those addresses is that leadership comes in many forms. You know, the values are critical to leadership in the first instance, but whether it be the Kirsty Bowden, whether it be the nurses on the beach, the two exceptional leaders here in Brendan and Jillian, or the extraordinary life of Sir John Monash, you know, Australia certainly has a rich history in leadership. And I think you know through the John Monash Foundation, we will be well set up to empower our young leaders into the future. So now my job is to facilitate Q&A. You know, the Commonwealth Bank has been a very proud partner of the John Monash Foundation since 2004. We've been associated with eight Commonwealth Bank John Monash Foundation since 2015. We believe in the development of young leaders for the health of the country that are going to be internationally connected and carry the values that are critical to this country that Brendan so eloquently touched on. And so we're very proud and thank you for Jillian for the involvement and the work with the Commonwealth Bank through the recent years. So let me go to Q&A. I know Jillian Siegel already has a question, so I'm going to throw it to Jillian for the first question. I do have an iPad here with streaming questions coming through from the audience, so please send them through and I'll try and get through them in the remaining time that we have. Okay, thank you.
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Jillian Siegel44:56
Um, and can I just endorse your words about the two speakers that we've just heard from? Really fantastic, eloquent and erudite statements and reflections on leadership. So my question is really about leadership in today's difficult environment of COVID. And I know we could have said well we'll have an entire ration and not mention COVID, but I think that would have not been a realistic situation. So let me ask you each what you think the current situation has done in one sense. Jillian, you already referenced that trust has a higher kind of requirement, but I would like to ask you both about that. Has the requirements for trust in this time of COVID increased or indeed has the opposite in one way happened? Have we come together and is that something that's necessary to come together? And corporate leadership is being looked at certainly by the government, and there is indeed a predisposition to look to some of our corporate leaders for that trust that is needed to carry the country forward. So when I ask you, Jillian first and then Brendan please. I'm reminded of a quote from one of my mentors who's watching today, and he says 'Walk, don't run, it panics the troops.' And today he has 40 years in the military. And today, are we walking, are we running? And as a business owner, I'm sprinting. I am trying to keep up, but to care for a team, to care for the people around me, I'm walking and I'm keeping them as involved as possible. But brand and trust and consistency over time cannot start in March when we go into lockdown. That's earned over time, and that is achieved through the characteristics of that person. So we walk, but internally a lot of leaders right now are sprinting.
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Brendan Nelson47:19
I think Jillian's address was superb, by the way. It's interesting. I think that in this period since the pandemic arrived and all of the consequences of it, I think people have become more trusting in leadership, government leadership, corporate leadership. You just look what the banks have been doing, for example. And people want and need our governments to succeed. And I think that our governments, generally speaking, people know that they are dealing with the unknown. They're seeking to respond to and lead us through circumstances that are completely unfamiliar to us and our generation. And we've seen more authenticity in the communications we've had. We've seen a greater determination for people that would normally be hostile to one another, whether in the political class or in other groupings, having a determination to work together. There's also been, and I say this now as someone who's a member of the public, I also sense that there has been much more open transparency in the communication that we receive from government and other sections of our health, business, and societal leadership. And these consistent patterns of behaviour, I think, have already played a role in rebuilding trust. We've seen some notable exceptions to it, we've seen some missteps by governments, and most people accept that that's the case. So one of the things that Jillian said which I strongly believe in is that leaders need to communicate with us in ways that are authentic, that can be reconciled with the reality of the lives that we are living and what we are seeing before us, and to also, as I think the government did recently in the budget, is to give us a sense of hope and confidence.
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Jillian Kilby49:23
So yeah, what it's worth, maybe it may be a follow-on question there, Brendan. You know, and from the audience, how does a politician reconcile leadership and maintaining one's value and character whilst trying to stay elected by a mistrustful electorate? So are those two things inconsistent?
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Brendan Nelson49:29
They're not inconsistent, but they are difficult. And from my own experience, at each step of the way, there are people, there are events and circumstances that are encroaching on your values, that are eating away at what you believe you should be doing, what you want to do. I'm very strongly of the view, however, that I certainly encourage any young or not so young Australian who believes he or she can make a difference to go into political life, because we certainly need them. But you need to have a very strong, well-developed moral compass before you get into parliament. It's also, in my opinion, very important that you have some experience of life, the ups and downs and the joys and the adversities and all the other things that life brings before you get into parliament, because it's quite an unreal environment. But I do strongly believe, and I can only speak for myself, that whatever I was able to achieve or whatever position like that I was able to hold, I did so without being beholden to anybody or any group of people, instead doing precisely what I believed needed to be done, consistent with my own philosophical framework, and that in my case of the Liberal Party.
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Jillian Kilby51:08
Excellent. Maybe a question for Jillian. In your view, how do you think the pandemic will change the world for the better? What's the positive legacy of the pandemic? And maybe you can phrase your question around leadership.
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Jillian Siegel51:12
Yeah, well, I mean, everyone's moving to the bush. I think it's going to change the way we think about gatherings. There's a fabulous book I've been indulging in during COVID called 'The Art of Gathering', and it's all about what is the purpose of getting together. What was the purpose of those conferences, those meetings, those family gatherings, those 200-person weddings? What was the purpose? So if you wind back to what the true purpose is and you design around that, you end up with a very different opportunity to bring people together. So one of the debates I watch right now is, you know, should people return to the big country show movement because it is a yardstick for agriculture, or should we be breaking those down into smaller, more meaningful, more premium events? And this is where the opportunity exists, especially for young people, to have businesses that serve and cater for a new appetite that meets the requirements of COVID.
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Jillian Kilby52:28
So very good. Just there's a question here around education. I think probably worth asking just in light of, you know, while we're here for John Monash, you know, being core to education of Australians, it's hard not to feel despair with respect to the state of tertiary education in Australia. How can we convince our current Australian political leaders to increase investment in it? Brendan, do you have a view on that?
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Brendan Nelson52:53
Well, I don't want to venture into, I went through a lot of reform of the higher education sector when I was education minister myself. And I just come back, our nation does invest very heavily in education. And I certainly understand people who are advocates for further public investment, particularly but not only in higher education. I go back to Julian mentioned, referred actually to what Thomas Jefferson wrote for the American Declaration of Independence there earlier on. 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.' Jefferson was, as you know, first Secretary of State, third President of the United States. When he was asked what's his greatest legacy, he didn't say being President of the United States. I mean, his mother would have said that's great, looks good on the CV. He said, 'My life wants should be remembered for three things: those words for the American Declaration, the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, but he said co-founding University of Virginia.' And when he was asked why after everything he'd done, he said, 'Because education is the defense of the nation.' And that is why it is so important. So I certainly am a believer in increased investment in education. I don't think you can ever invest too much in it. The extent to which it's both public, private, and then individual contribution is a matter for public policy.
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Jillian Kilby54:31
One of the things he spoke to in your speech was the democratic values and the importance of democracy to Australia and always questioning and having the ability to question. This question aligns with that, especially at this point in time. So how can we as a community maintain democratic values when growing parts of Australian society believe that the crisis requires authoritarian solutions? Yeah, and then maybe Jillian, you may have a view after Brendan.
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Brendan Nelson54:57
Well, it comes back to the question you asked Julian earlier. You know, what positive could come out of this pandemic in this crisis? And there are certainly a lot of negatives, but in crisis there is always opportunity. And amongst the positives that I observe is people have refocused on what's really important. People flooding into supermarkets to buy things to cook at home and teaching their kids to cook and spending more time with one another, reflecting on who and what is really important in their lives. Yes, we see, we know that support for democracy, particularly amongst young Australians and a lot of western countries, is a minority position because we have taken for granted so much for which Monash's generation and the one that followed gave their all to give us. And we're being reminded now of the importance of it. Yes, there is an increasing movement amongst people who like the idea of having someone telling them what to do and what to think and so on, but I think that the majority of Australians actually disagree with that and are moving a bit in the other direction. So as Churchill said, democracy is a terrible system, the worst of all possible except for everything else. So anyway, I'm watching a shift of people back to their values. Why am I working here? Why am I doing these routine things week in week out, these hours, this role? And asking themselves, what do I want for my life? What role model am I being for my children, for the people around me? And starting to think about how they want to spend their time as we emerge from COVID to our new normal. And I think that's fundamentally going to change the landscape in Australia, both corporate and the way we spend our personal time. And I just come back to my understanding of our military history. There was a man called Kevin Fagan, a surgeon, again Jesuit educator, and he was on the Burma-Thailand Railway. And it was said of him by Russell Braddon in 'The Naked Island', he said, 'If we marched 100 miles a day, he marched 200 up and down the line. He carried the bags and kit of anybody that was falling. He lifted men that were in danger of falling. At the end of the day he cared for soul and buried the dead.' In 1946, Kevin Fagan wrote about his experience in the Medical Journal of Australia, and he said of that adversity beyond our imagination, he said, 'It gave me an understanding of men, of human nature, an appreciation of the simple things in life: a bit of butter on your toast in the morning, a beer when you're thirsty, and most importantly, a realisation that in the end all that really counts is the people that we love and who love us.' So in the midst of all of this, we are being reminded, we may not consciously think that, but we're actually being reminded, well, what is really important to us? As Jillian was saying, and the nature of work, it's pretty clear has changed and will be one of the legacies coming out of this.
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Jillian Kilby58:10
And can I just add a comment which sort of goes back to the government and their values as exhibited today. But we at the Foundation have been privileged to receive two new scholarships in the last year from the government, and they are in honor of two great men, namely Tim Fischer and Bob Hawke. And so we'll be awarding a Tim Fischer and a Bob Hawke John Monash Scholarship this year. And I think they reflect two men in particular who were very focused on understanding the community, upholding democracy, thinking about values, giving of themselves, and being authentic. And I think that's a wonderful reflection both of the government and we've enjoyed bipartisan support, and indeed those particular men being remembered through the Foundation.
Very good. We are literally almost out of time. So I want to firstly thank our guests, Julian and Brendan, for I think two extraordinary addresses. You know, we're very, very lucky to have such leaders in this country, and certainly from the Commonwealth Bank and John Monash to have you come and talk to our audience, so greatly appreciated. Thank you to Jillian, the John Monash Foundation, Anne Marie Rolls for all the work that you do with this really critical foundation for the country and for our young leaders. I'd like to thank everybody, you know, our clients from the Commonwealth Bank, the John Monash guests, and the scholars who have joined in and listened to today. And thank you for all the leadership that you are showing out there in the community. And with that, I'd like to end today's session and we look forward to seeing you all soon. Thank you. Thank you.