80. Deanna Oppenheimer - Top NED & CEO Inspiring Leadership Interview with Jonathan Bowman-Perks

It's great to be here, Jonathan. It's always fun to talk to you and I'm honored and pleased to be here.

You know, it's really interesting. I think we shouldn't confuse leaders with titled management because leadership happens at all levels. One example was when I was in retail banking in the US, I had responsibility for our branch network. I went into a tough part of Los Angeles and met an assistant manager who looked about 12 but had been in banking for 20 years. She was one of the most inspiring leaders I've ever seen. She said, 'This is our neighborhood, we don't care how rough it is, we need to serve people with a smile.' She got her crew together every morning for the Crenshaw cheer, and it set a great tone. There was never a bad day in that branch. Another example is Lou Pepper, my first CEO at First Bank. He was a lawyer by training, very bright but also very humble, listened well, and had a great sense of humor. I never made a big career move without talking to him first, even 20 years after working for him. Those are two examples on the spectrum of inspiring leaders.

When I decided to leave the executive world nearly 10 years ago, I thought about how to stay relevant for the long term. I wanted to construct a portfolio of big corporate public boards across three continents, and also give back to the tech community in Seattle. So I started Cameo Works with a former colleague, Drew Wolf. We advise CEOs of early stage disruptors between their A and C rounds, helping them with challenges like transitioning from a garage to global, team changes, and strategic alternatives. It's been a unique blend of entrepreneurial innovation from the West Coast with global big companies.

Yes, that's my foray into nonprofit. About five years ago, with Charlotte Diamond and Phyllis Campbell, we started talking about diversity on boards. We launched Board Ready dot IO about a year ago. We do three things: first, we calculate the Board Readiness Index, a metric comparing a board's diversity score against its peer group. Second, we consult with boards on why diversity of thought matters. Third, we have a Talent Vault of diverse, amazing people, about 70% have board experience, 30% don't but have great skills. We make introductions. Recently we added ethnicity to the metric. It's been rewarding and inspiring.

My view is that diversity means a balance of whatever is not predominantly represented. If a board is all women, you need male diversity; if all older, you need younger. Clearly ethnicity is not well represented. Building the pipeline is important. Board Ready is focused in the US on corporate boards. We're tiny but every bit counts.

I think there are many times you get it wrong on timing and choices. The trick is to learn and apply. Early in my career, I wasn't as direct on managing performance challenges. I remember one time I finally sat down with an individual and said, 'It isn't working.' After a direct and empathetic conversation, I discovered he didn't even want to be there. I should have had that conversation six months or a year earlier. I learned to be really honest and direct but with empathy. A boss of mine said we hire to the brand but sometimes you have to fire to the brand. In corporate America, we never did that well – we'd wine and dine to hire, then quickly let people go. Now in an advisory role, I can help others identify that.

I hasten to say I did retire, I didn't get fired. But look at where we are – the biggest upheaval of this generation due to the pandemic. There are going to be millions of people without jobs and millions of jobs without people. We need to look for opportunities and be brave. I had the privilege of being a business in residence at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business, and I talked to students. It's a scary time, but if you stay focused on what you can control and keep your eyes open for opportunities, it can be one of the best times to go out. I'm a big believer in that, though I struggle to follow my own advice. That's why we need people like you to coach and inspire us.

I think it'll be different for different regions and industries. Some companies are doing extremely well – home hair dye sales doubled during lockdown. We are accelerating trends already in place, like technology use. We're now comfortable having conversations across countries and backdrops. This is the only time in at least a century where the whole world is going through exactly the same experience simultaneously. That uniqueness will have huge impacts. It's an opportunity for leadership to shine, whether you're in a winning or challenged industry.

One thing I remember from the early days is moral fatigue. Every decision required thought. You had a video about it being a marathon, not a sprint. I was doing 12-14 hours of Zoom calls, and that reminded me to pace myself. I stopped ordering cheeseburgers and started taking better care. It's a fundamental change; we're not going back. You have to be at your best – have courage, be humble, focus on what you can control. One silver lining: I've been able to settle with family more. But there's also much sadness – disrupted athletes, graduates, family celebrations, job displacement. You can't live only in sadness. Find the silver linings to get through.

The first thing is this is a real opportunity to pivot. Never waste a good crisis. Leaders need to assess honestly, receive feedback, and change. Second, prioritize the vital few over the trivial many. One CIO said they achieved in two weeks what they'd been trying to do for three years – working from home. Third, don't try to go back. We honor the past but don't return to it. In my first bank, we grew from #4323 to a top five bank. People asked when we could go back. The answer was we'll go to a new forward, not back.

It's interesting that what you let go of isn't necessarily irreparable. I left the board of PATH, a global health charity, because I was traveling too much. But when the pandemic hit, I went back to help. PATH is accelerating the vaccine and global health security. It shows that timing can change; you can go back if the circumstances align. You have to keep forging along, understanding what you bring to a situation.

Having kids keeps you humble. My son thought I just sat in meetings eating cookies. Now they're adults and I'm a grandmother – that keeps you young. I get natural energy from interacting with dynamic next-gen people through Cameo and Board Ready. I wish I had your discipline for eating right, but I don't get too out of line. I exercise every day – I take sunset walks with my husband to catch up.

A low point was at one company where in a year I had four different bosses due to reorganizations. The last one was a corporate psychopath. It was hard emotionally, but I learned to not tie my emotional well-being to how others behave. Compartmentalize. It's dangerous to lose confidence. It's not about you.

A high point is always about people. The bulk of Cameo clients are people who once worked for me and remembered me as inspiring. Also, my nephew Matt Oppenheimer, CEO of Remitly, is a great success story. He saw an opportunity, took calculated risk, and created a global business. Seeing him succeed is a highlight.

I'm reading 'Such a Fun Age' by Kiley Reid – it deals with race and privilege. Also, 'Boys in the Boat' about the Seattle rowing team that won Olympic gold in the 1930s. It's about harmonizing a team, getting the best out of everybody. My final tip: when you can demonstrate leadership that brings out the best in everyone, that's a real thrill.

Thanks, Jonathan.