Chairman of the Board of Management / CEO, Alfred Kärcher SE & Co. KG
Kärcher-Chef Jenner: „Wir haben unsere eigenen Gesetze gemacht“
Podcast Chefgespräch | Was blieb dem Menschen im abgelaufenen Lockdown anderes übrig als sich im Zwangs-Cocooning neben netflixen und kochen mit putzen abzulenken. Vor den Deutschen war kein Schmutz mehr sicher. Reinigen war plötzlich nicht mehr gleichbedeutend mit namenlosen Putzkolonnen, die nach Feierabend ihre Kreise ziehen. Reinigen war plötzlich in der Mitte der Gesellschaft angekommen und wird dort auch bleiben. Für die Hochdruckvariante gibt es im Duden sogar ein eigenes Wort. Womit wir bei meinem Gast wären. Der Mammut-Christus in Rio de Janeiro verdankt ihm sein frisches Aussehen und...
About Hartmut Jenner
In a July 2021 podcast interview with WirtschaftsWoche, Kärcher CEO Hartmut Jenner discussed the company's approach to supply chain challenges and pricing. Jenner stated that Kärcher had "made its own laws" by adapting industry standards rather than following them strictly, which he described as "overblown." He noted that while the company had pre-stocked components early in the previous year to mitigate shortages, production was still constrained by a lack of available parts and labor, limiting output despite high customer demand. On pricing, Jenner said he was "not a big fan of price increases" and believed companies had a promise to customers regarding stability. However, he added that if cost pressures persisted, "we will raise prices definitely" the following year, particularly for products heavily affected by rising input costs, such as large sweepers. Jenner also mentioned that he was "living his dream" as an entrepreneur and expressed a personal wish for VfB Stuttgart to become German football champions.
Transcript (145 segments)
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Hartmut Jenner0:00
We had more customers like, for example, hotels, building cleaners who weren't allowed to work, or when airports were hardly visited by anyone and hardly cleaned. We felt that everywhere.
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Interviewer0:19
Chefgespräch – a podcast by Wirtschaftswoche with the Teufelfinger. Welcome to another episode of the Wirtschaftswoche podcast Chefgespräch. My name is the editor-in-chief of Wirtschaftswoche. I would guess Germany has never been as clean as it is today. What else were people supposed to do during the lockdown besides binge Netflix and distract themselves by cleaning? In front of Germans, no dirt was safe. Cleaning was suddenly no longer synonymous with anonymous cleaning crews doing their rounds after work. Cleaning had suddenly arrived at the center of society. And it's going to stay there. For the high-pressure variant, the Duden even has its own word. That brings me to my guest today. He can do everything except standard German. The mammoths of Christ the Redeemer in Rio de Janeiro owe their fresh appearance to him, and a Hollywood star is one of his best customers. Hartmut Jenner has no time for employer associations or unions and most likes to relax by driving a sweeper. As CEO of the Kärcher Group, the Swabian world market leader in cleaning equipment with revenues of around 2.6 billion euros.
Hello, Mr. Jenner, great to have you here today.
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Hartmut Jenner1:45
Thank you for the invitation.
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Interviewer1:46
Mr. Jenner, before we dive deep into your business, we first have to clarify the Hollywood topic. Why exactly are you into Bruce Willis?
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Hartmut Jenner1:58
Well, Bruce Willis is an intelligent person. In one of his chains, one of the retail chains like 1, 3 in the USA, he bought a high-pressure cleaner. And importantly, it wasn't staged – he really wanted to have a Kärcher high-pressure cleaner.
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Interviewer2:15
So we're talking about the action comedy 'Red,' the purchase at a hardware store, a Kärcher, while John Malkovich talks to him. That's product placement, which normally costs enormous sums. You didn't have to pay anything for that?
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Hartmut Jenner2:29
No, actually not. He really wanted to have a Kärcher high-pressure cleaner, which I think is completely correct.
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Interviewer2:34
Did you find out afterwards exactly how that story played out?
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Hartmut Jenner2:41
Actually, it was all planned. The product is bought there and Bruce Willis says he would like to buy a high-pressure cleaner.
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Interviewer2:53
I mean, from a film perspective, 'Die Hard' is the perfect fit, because it always ends with a big dirty mess that someone has to clean. Does that also match your private taste?
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Hartmut Jenner3:08
Well, Kärcher stands for cleanliness, and we get it done. Then let's clean.
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Interviewer3:12
Exactly, but Bruce Willis leaves a lot of dirt behind, so he's perfect. In 'Friends' – wait, I've seen all his episodes from season three. It's always so beautifully impossible. When Willis holds onto a window frame on the 55th floor with a bleeding hand while beating up the villain with the other. So you're privately more of the intellectual type?
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Hartmut Jenner3:32
Culturally, yes. For example, I've been sponsoring the Bach Academy for years, a wonderful institution here in the Stuttgart region, the Gegnerkantorei, and we support that. And privately, for example, my wife and I – we concentrate on a church. The word 'Kärchen' doesn't sound so refined, even though it made it into the Duden.
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Interviewer3:58
France's President Nicolas Sarkozy once even wanted to clean the suburbs with 'Kärchen.' That wasn't the kind of publicity you found so great, was it?
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Hartmut Jenner4:13
Well, the story is that in 2005 he used it as mayor of Paris. I think he simply didn't realize that there's a company behind it. In everyday language usage in France, the whole issue only became public when he was a presidential candidate in 2007, and then there were all sorts of things happening with this usage. For example, on YouTube, bets were being made about whether you could high-pressure-clean the next body. There were no limits. We had to step in at some point and say this is a Swabian company and high-pressure cleaning isn't that easy – it can be dangerous if you don't handle it correctly.
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Interviewer4:51
There's a second issue, which is important – trademark protection law in France is weaker than in Germany. If you hadn't fought back and made a statement through advertising that the brand belongs to you, it could have become generic.
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Hartmut Jenner4:59
Exactly. If in the worst case someone else could have simply taken it over. There was a political message behind it that you don't necessarily want. The company or rather the suburbs with 'Kärchen' – that refers more to a right-leaning political orientation.
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Interviewer5:25
You wrote a letter to the president back then, I believe. Or you wrote to all presidential candidates.
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Hartmut Jenner5:30
Correct. We wrote to all presidential candidates and simply said that this is about treating people with respect. We have customers, we have employees, we have suppliers, and you have a responsibility. You can't just put an achievement in a corner like that. It simply doesn't work. And we actually got answers and positive responses.
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Interviewer5:49
Even Sarkozy responded – well, his office head, but still.
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Hartmut Jenner5:54
All of them kept us in the loop. The media coverage was a bit different, but it did calm things down.
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Interviewer6:05
If I've calculated correctly, you've now been with Kärcher for 26 years. Why did you of all people come to a cleaning systems company right after your studies? Were student parties that much better with Kärcher? Was it that without Kärcher nothing worked the next morning? How should I picture this?
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Hartmut Jenner6:23
Well, this year I've been with the company for 30 years, and I've been a board member for 22 years. I was born here in Winnenden, near Stuttgart, grew up in Winnenden – where Kärcher is. I studied in Stuttgart, Diplom-Kaufmann. During studies, you had to do two internships at companies, and I did them here at the company because I lived nearby. And it suited me well.
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Interviewer6:56
Three things appealed to you. Was cleaning the background, or were there really three things?
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Hartmut Jenner7:03
There were three reasons: First, it's a family-owned company. I like the culture, the entrepreneurial spirit. Second, it was already international at the time, now a global company. I enjoyed working internationally. And third, it's a value-creating enterprise – products are developed, produced, marketed, distributed. I didn't want to work in advisory or consulting. Those were the three reasons. I applied to companies with a similar profile, got an offer, and stayed here. International work was important because I wanted to get out of little Winnenden.
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Interviewer7:46
There's some truth to that, growing up here in an agricultural area, not much time abroad. Now at Kärcher, everything revolves around cleanliness and precision. Your first position at Kärcher was in controlling, but that didn't work out. You became assistant to a managing director. If you add it all up – controlling, cleanliness, precision – are you a typical perfectionist?
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Hartmut Jenner8:20
I do pay attention to details. That doesn't mean micro-management, but I believe you need to focus on problems proactively and deal with specific topics carefully. You don't need to handle everything. But I am someone who values things being done well.
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Interviewer8:37
But you didn't already know Kärcher from your childhood. You mentioned an agricultural family business – that's paradise for a Kärcher evangelist, isn't it?
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Hartmut Jenner8:48
Absolutely, no question. We had a Kärcher pressure washer back then, of course. I had a strong connection to it. Cleaning has an incredible amount to do with sociology.
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Interviewer9:05
You once said that where you're born and how you grow up has a huge influence on how you clean. I'm curious – you claim there's a kind of class society when it comes to hygiene. How should I understand that?
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Hartmut Jenner9:21
I think it depends on multiple parameters. First, cleaning isn't a science. Cleaning processes aren't standardized. It has something to do with subjectivity and sociology. People are often taught to clean – they're used to it from their parents or role models. And of course it depends heavily on where you live and how much cleaning is needed. If I give a lecture with my Swabian dialect, everyone says, 'Of course, Kärcher, Kehrwoche, Swabia.' But that's completely wrong, because in the Arab world or Asian regions where humidity is much higher, people clean much more often than in Germany.
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Interviewer10:08
Are there differences between German states?
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Hartmut Jenner10:14
We conduct regular studies. There are actually cultural differences. The southern German Kehrwoche means somewhat more cleaning is done, also because more sidewalks are cleaned. There are country-specific differences, though not significant. But the dirtier kids tend to live in northern Germany.
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Interviewer10:37
You mentioned Asia. Are the Japanese your most demanding customers, or the Singaporeans?
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Hartmut Jenner10:47
Singaporeans are really at the top. There's even a law there that you must regularly clean your house with a high-pressure cleaner. I think that's very good.
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Interviewer10:58
How did you manage that? Is there really such a law?
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Hartmut Jenner11:03
No joke – that law was actually passed. In Japan, there's also a tendency toward much more cleaning. Japan, Korea, and especially Singapore are far ahead.
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Interviewer11:20
Does that mean per-capita consumption of cleaning agents and machines is much higher? Or how do you measure that?
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Hartmut Jenner11:28
It's actually measured through surveys, not through revenue per capita or device sales.
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Interviewer11:38
Did you feel during the Corona crisis that different cultures also came through with different hygiene levels?
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Hartmut Jenner11:49
It's actually interesting. We have a product called a steam cleaner – not a pressure washer – it disinfects through steam and is primarily used indoors. We already noticed in January 2020 that steam cleaner sales in Asia had significantly increased. Steam is great for killing germs. The steam cleaner is widely used in Asia. Sales spiked dramatically. We already knew something was in the air that wasn't completely normal. That was already Corona spreading in China before it spread to the rest of Asia.
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Interviewer12:40
When exactly did business pick up in China? Was it already late 2019 or only early 2020?
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Hartmut Jenner12:47
Early 2020. It was already in the press.
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Interviewer12:57
I mean, you actually came through the crisis pretty well. How would you summarize it in retrospect?
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Hartmut Jenner13:02
Of course we had a record year last year and came through the crisis well, seemingly. But you have to look at it more closely. We do 50% B2C revenue and 50% B2B. In the B2C area, many people – because of Corona – cleaned more, which was good or very good. But in the B2B area it was relatively difficult. We fell significantly behind 2019 levels, and in sum the B2C business was enough for a record, but the B2B business was tough. We have customers like hotels, building cleaners who weren't allowed to work, or when airports are hardly visited by anyone and thus hardly cleaned. We felt that everywhere. Industry was often on short-time work and didn't order products. So we had factories with three shifts and factories on short-time work – a completely asymmetric business year.
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Interviewer13:53
You mentioned your gastro and hotel customers suffered particularly. They often experienced government crisis management as pure arbitrariness. Did you feel that too?
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Hartmut Jenner13:58
I can actually understand that in retrospect and have expressed myself on it multiple times. I think just leaving aside the short-time work – I would say this intransparency, receiving new information every one or two weeks about what's now allowed and what's not – companies simply can't implement that.
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Interviewer14:23
So Kärcher was the 'Autonomous Republic of Kärcher' that said we're going to do this on our own now?
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Hartmut Jenner14:26
I decided fairly early last year that we would simply follow our own course. Of course, not entirely decoupled from the government, but not changing measures every four weeks. And that proved successful. Through that, we created security for our people, which is the decisive thing.
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Interviewer14:47
A bit economically provocative, but I'd say you created your own rules – referencing but not constantly changing with the government. It's just too much. Take my wife, for example, who runs a forest kindergarten – a new ordinance every Friday, meant to be implemented by Monday. How are you supposed to do that?
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Hartmut Jenner15:09
That's difficult, and exactly that has frustrated many. But this kind of independent or autonomous republic is also otherwise your theme, because you don't like outside interference. Unions aren't your thing, employer associations even less so – you're not even a member. Is that part of Kärcher's DNA?
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Interviewer15:21
Well, to a degree.
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Hartmut Jenner15:25
I think there's something to it, but it goes back to the founder Alfred Kärcher. He already said back then: we talk directly with our employees, not through third parties. And when you're in associations like employer groups or unions, you have to talk through representatives. And I think it's better when people talk with each other rather than about each other.
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Interviewer15:47
If you became King of Germany, would you abolish unions right away?
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Hartmut Jenner15:53
They bring nothing for the economy? No. I think both unions and employer associations have their justification in certain sectors. I don't want to give a false impression – I think a lot was rightfully achieved for employees, and it has its justification. The question is whether you always have to expect that. Of course, it's clearly easier for a company to manage when employees are more autonomous.
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Interviewer16:18
Let's go back to the lockdown. I read your interviews from that time, and your predictions sounded incredibly gloomy. First, there would be no dynamic economic recovery. Second, a huge wave of insolvencies and unemployment. Third, states would run out of money for stimulus programs. Are you always wrong with your predictions?
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Hartmut Jenner16:48
I'm not wrong at all. It's just that states – just wait and see what's still coming. Why do you think money is still so cheap despite rising inflation? The interest rates will have to be raised.
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Interviewer16:58
Rates would have to rise, and then what? Externally driven by rising rates.
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Hartmut Jenner17:08
But money is there now with the stimulus programs. The EU is a gigantic project distributing funds right now – Germany getting 26 billion, Italy nearly 200 billion. Running out of money – I don't think so yet.
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Interviewer17:26
Where does the money come from? It's all debt money, and without zero or negative interest rate policy, it wouldn't exist at all.
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Hartmut Jenner17:33
You can't afford it. You're right. But my statement that states are on the verge of collapse isn't wrong. Taxes have been artificially suppressed multiple times. Currently, interest rates would have to rise given the actual price increases, quite simply. They don't because they're artificially held at zero. That's how state spending is financed – through interest rates.
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Interviewer17:52
So you believe central bank independence has long been gone?
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Hartmut Jenner17:57
Long gone.
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Interviewer17:57
There were over 8,000 additional insolvencies – a clear increase. I was right about that. But the wave wasn't nearly as big as people feared. So again, wait and wait.
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Hartmut Jenner18:10
Well, there were still significantly more than before. And I wouldn't say the predictions were entirely wrong.
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Interviewer18:16
But the main prediction was: no dynamic economic recovery. Mr. Jenner, if you tell me that wasn't true, I'm curious, because we're all experiencing a boom.
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Hartmut Jenner18:29
It's difficult to predict ahead of time. I wasn't expecting such a strong recovery. Nobody was.
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Interviewer18:45
What does that mean for your company? The boom has led to a massive catch-up effect – raw material prices have exploded, semiconductors are in short supply. How does that affect your production specifically?
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Hartmut Jenner19:02
Two things for us. First, looking back, COVID measures in production led to less efficiency – shift separations, hygiene measures that reduced productivity. That affected all production sites. Second, the high costs have been noticeable for at least half a year – significantly elevated. A shipping container from China to Germany used to cost on average $2,000, at its peak more like $11,000.
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Interviewer19:38
Raw material prices will stay high. Is it more availability or price that's the issue?
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Hartmut Jenner19:41
Both. Certain raw materials are actually missing. It affects us less with wood, but steel is an absolute scarce commodity right now. We feel it everywhere. We had fewer problems with batteries and electronic components. We were already well-stocked early last year, and that proved to be the right decision.
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Interviewer20:13
How does that look when steel becomes so scarce and expensive – does your production get delayed?
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Hartmut Jenner20:20
We don't have the same selection, and customer demand is still significantly above normal levels. We could deliver more with more steel available, but some things just can't be done anymore. More than what's currently possible simply can't be done.
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Interviewer20:37
If we're talking market economy, shouldn't Kärcher products become significantly more expensive?
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Hartmut Jenner20:47
Of course, certain price adjustments will be made, especially for products heavily affected – like large sweepers where hydraulic hoses and steel have become more expensive. I'm not a big fan of sudden price increases. I believe you've made a promise to your customers, and there's a certain degree of stability you should maintain. If it stays like this next year, we will raise prices – definitely.
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Interviewer21:16
How much are we talking? 5%?
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Hartmut Jenner21:21
Around 5%. It depends on how raw material prices develop in the coming weeks. Another topic is semiconductors – how are you affected? Do you have shortages or were you lucky?
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Interviewer21:35
You were well-stocked relatively early.
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Hartmut Jenner21:37
We had relative luck with that. What's almost laughable is that we have many innovation and development projects that need prototype semiconductor boards. You can barely find anyone to make prototypes anymore because they're fully loaded with mass production and have no capacity.
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Interviewer22:00
When do you think the semiconductor shortage will ease?
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Hartmut Jenner22:11
Semiconductors – capacity needs to increase. Semiconductors are used everywhere, especially in electric motors, which are the future. Demand will remain relatively high. Capacity expansion is coming. For other raw materials, I expect normalization within about six months, perhaps at a somewhat higher level but not at current peaks.
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Interviewer22:40
Your demand for semiconductors will also increase in the future because your products are becoming increasingly digitalized, moving toward robotics. What should I imagine when we look into the future? When is the autonomous Kärcher for the home terrace coming?
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Hartmut Jenner23:00
What will come, especially in the B2B environment – for larger areas like supermarkets, airports – we're introducing our 'Robo Scrubber' to the market at the end of the year. The background is simply that customer demand is very high. Our customers in this area are mainly building cleaners who can't find employees anymore. It's not about replacing humans for cost reasons – the workers simply aren't available anymore. There's strong demand for more robotics. It's like a vacuum robot for home, just much larger, running through a supermarket autonomously. The demand in commercial cleaning is much higher when you consider all the open spaces, warehouse halls, Amazon high-bay warehouses that need to be cleaner because dust can't reach the products.
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Interviewer24:18
Will the demand for quality cleaning change?
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Hartmut Jenner24:22
Of course not. It will just be better fulfilled as capacity increases.
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Interviewer24:25
Speaking of digitalization – if I know your story correctly, the realization about total digitalization came on a flight where you sat with a Silicon Valley founder and ended up putting him to sleep with your ideas. How did that conversation go? What did you learn?
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Hartmut Jenner24:46
What I learned was about digital business models – digitalization entering products, entire digital platform business models. That became clear to me during that flight.
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Interviewer25:07
And in the end, you sold him a Kärcher. So when people board a plane with you, they have to buy a Kärcher?
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Hartmut Jenner25:16
Well, not exactly. I always make use of flights to talk to people who can't flee from me. Many rich people travel with a Kärcher at home. They recognize me immediately and ask about cleaning.
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Interviewer25:34
You bought a Berlin startup, Servicepartner. Was that also part of this digital chapter?
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Hartmut Jenner25:46
Exactly. When you look at cleaning, Servicepartner – we've renamed it – has a broader scope. Today cleaning is very static. If you have an office building, someone comes every Thursday at 5 PM and cleans whether you were there or not, on vacation or in home office. At airports, someone hand-signs that toilets were cleaned every hour whether a plane landed or not. The goal of Servicepartner is dynamic, demand-oriented cleaning – cleaning based on actual need. We tested this at several locations. For example, at the partner store we used a rain sensor to clean the entrance area more frequently after rain due to water being tracked in. Or in an underground parking garage with 1,000 capacity, when it's full, the restrooms are used much more, and you can dynamically increase cleaning frequency. And then you could imagine a future startup providing the impulse for a robot that autonomously cleans the entrance when it's rained.
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Interviewer27:55
No human needed for that anymore?
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Hartmut Jenner27:56
No human needed for the control systems, exactly. But you'll always need people – let me not create the wrong impression. A robot can't clean uneven surfaces for a long time. That's something humans can do. Only flat surfaces work for robots.
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Interviewer28:11
So only supermarkets, warehouses work, but everything else fails?
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Hartmut Jenner28:15
Exactly. Or small window areas, perhaps. But everything else – not in the foreseeable future.
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Interviewer28:21
Why not? Do you have an R&D lab where your engineers are despairing in night shifts because the robot can't handle it? What's the big challenge?
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Hartmut Jenner28:35
You have to imagine what all needs to be recognized. If you want to clean a shelf, a window, or a table with stuff on it – the effort to program that is enormous. Technically, it's simply not possible right now. Robotics isn't advanced enough.
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Interviewer28:50
How should I picture this – traditional family company Winnenden, Kärcher, buys a hip Berlin startup. Are there clashes?
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Hartmut Jenner29:01
No, there was an intermediate step. We had a service provider for many years in the IoT and cloud space, and I acquired that provider back in 2017. That was important for us – a whole new culture. And we left that company in Stuttgart so they could preserve their culture. Importantly, we always required that this company continue to generate about a third of its revenue with external clients, not just Kärcher. That kept them modern and up-to-date. And then this company in Berlin – it was its own culture. I might have expected it to be difficult, but there were no integration pains whatsoever.
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Interviewer29:55
Nobody wondered what those people were doing?
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Hartmut Jenner30:00
No, not at all. I think the younger generation in companies understands this very well. Even the older generation adapted – it was never really a problem.
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Interviewer30:11
Can a traditional company only stay innovative by buying fresh blood?
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Hartmut Jenner30:17
Today there's really no other way. But I don't really see it that way. Cleaning is still completely under-innovated. It was done by hand, and we offer mechanical, digitalized solutions. There's still plenty of demand. People are very open and flexible. I have no concerns there.
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Interviewer30:54
What I don't understand is this: you're fascinated by Silicon Valley founders and buy hip Berlin startups, but on diversity, you're almost still in the Stone Age. Last year you expanded the board to six people, and as far as I can tell, there's no woman among them. Will that stay that way?
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Hartmut Jenner31:18
We have five board members. We have a Swiss one – so that doesn't count toward Germany. But seriously, we're not doing badly. We've promoted many women early on, especially in household products. There's currently no woman on the board – that's just how it worked out. But it could change. We have relatively many women in leadership positions. In total, 27% of our employees are women, which is relatively high for a machine builder. And we have 17% women in leadership positions – not that bad. If you filter out the secretarial roles that can't hold leadership positions, it's actually quite good. And it's growing significantly every year.
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Interviewer32:10
But can you promise today that when we do this podcast again in two years, you'll have a woman on the board?
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Hartmut Jenner32:19
I can't promise that. That's not my area of responsibility.
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Interviewer32:24
Then we'll observe that closely. In a transparent, publicly listed company, you'd be heavily criticized for that by now. Is it more comfortable living in a family company than in a corporation?
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Hartmut Jenner32:38
I don't think so. That's a misjudgment. We're just as challenged as everywhere else. I just find that we have far too many regulations and mandates. Things should develop naturally.
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Interviewer32:52
So the women's quota is not your thing?
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Hartmut Jenner33:25
Like all quotas – just external mandates – it's wrong in my view. Things must develop naturally. Is it good that women are in leadership positions? Absolutely. And that will develop naturally, as it has at Kärcher. Women will eventually be on the board – that's beyond question.
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Interviewer33:54
Speaking of no external mandates – is Germany generally over-regulated?
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Hartmut Jenner34:00
Increasingly so, yes. And now comes the Supply Chain Act – the next thing. That's a complete intrusion, making a company responsible for the actions of third parties. Of course, since Alfred Kärcher, we've always had clear requirements for suppliers – no child labor, compliance with laws, environmental protection. That's completely normal. But I can't be responsible for every misstep of every supplier worldwide.
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Interviewer34:38
But you still have to implement the law. How are you doing it?
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Hartmut Jenner34:43
We're thinking about it. We're trying to legally protect ourselves, of course. It's in the implementation process right now. Do suppliers sometimes drop out because they say they can't meet the requirements? Yes, that has happened. The biggest problem isn't really human rights violations – it's environmental issues, especially in Asia during pre-production. We've already switched suppliers because of that.
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Interviewer35:18
What about China? Does the decoupling theme affect you? Do you produce there?
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Hartmut Jenner35:28
Not at all. We're at the trade fair in Shanghai, but we have no production connection there.
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Interviewer35:36
I assume Kärcher will never go public, because that would mean someone else gets a say in your company. And you have enough money anyway. So it's not even a consideration.
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Hartmut Jenner35:52
Not a decisive one. I'm sure we won't do it.
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Interviewer35:56
Why are you so sure? Why wouldn't you?
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Hartmut Jenner36:00
Most people say they need additional investment capital. I don't need it. I believe a good entrepreneur should finance his own investments.
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Interviewer36:10
You mention your son – 'Vater sein, Familienunternehmen.' How should I picture the family's involvement? Does someone from the family call occasionally, or is it very distant?
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Hartmut Jenner36:34
Not at all distant. The supervisory board chairman, Mr. Kärcher, and I regularly exchange views. I inform the shareholders regularly, once a month, about current business development. I always say: openness creates openness. When you work as a family-outside CEO, you have to inform the shareholders just as openly and transparently. And the family has no ambitions to be operationally active themselves.
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Interviewer37:12
In the next generation there might be a true Kärcher running things?
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Hartmut Jenner37:20
Nothing has happened yet, but let's wait and see what comes. It's not impossible.
I
Interviewer37:27
You said you have enough money. Speaking of which, when do you want to stop at Kärcher and do something completely new? You've been here so long.
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Hartmut Jenner37:39
I don't plan to do anything else. I derive great pleasure from both the products and the customers, and especially the people I work with. There's no reason to change. There were approaches from other companies, but I was never interested.
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Interviewer38:00
So you're staying at Kärcher until retirement?
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Hartmut Jenner38:03
It's fun, and I think the most important thing in life is having fun with what you do. I made my hobby my profession – working as an entrepreneur, dealing with business fields that are hugely fun, that are innovative, with many great people. What more could you want?
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Interviewer38:19
I thought your hobbies were vineyards and skydiving.
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Hartmut Jenner38:24
The vineyard is indeed a big hobby of mine. Coming from an agricultural background, I have a small vineyard here in Winnenden, Bürgerschlossberg. I grow Lemberger and Burger, tended by Burkhard Kiefer. And it gives me great joy.
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Interviewer38:45
How did the idea come about?
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Hartmut Jenner38:50
You know, especially in Asia but increasingly worldwide, there are small gifts when you meet people. Many customers and business partners already have everything. What do you give someone like that? I thought it needs to be a 'money can't buy' gift. So I started my own vineyard, make a top wine that can only be gifted – you can't buy it.
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Interviewer39:16
What does it say on the bottle? 'Jenner Spätlese' or what?
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Hartmut Jenner39:19
'Jenner Bürgerschlossberg Lemberger.' But you won't find it in any store or restaurant. And it never will be. It's exclusively for customers, service providers, partners, and employees who've done something great.
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Interviewer39:33
Now you have to explain one more thing – I read about bungee jumping.
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Hartmut Jenner39:42
I went bungee jumping with Eberhard Gienger. He stressed me out more than the actual jump – because he did flips in the air. As a former ski jumping champion, he felt he had to show something special. That was actually scarier than the bungee jump itself.
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Interviewer40:00
Okay, the car was more dangerous. We've now reached the ultimate last question: What is your biggest private dream that you still want to fulfill?
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Hartmut Jenner40:13
I have to tell you quite honestly – this might sound a bit sentimental – but I'm living my dream. I'm an entrepreneur, I have a lot of freedom, I have a wonderful family, wonderful friends. It's all great fun. My small wish would be for VfB Stuttgart to become German champion, or TVB Stuttgart to win the German handball championship.
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Interviewer40:34
The chances aren't great right now. What's your prognosis?
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Hartmut Jenner40:42
I'm still young enough to hopefully experience it.
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Interviewer40:45
Alright, you're young enough. Then we'll keep our fingers crossed that it happens. Thank you very much for the conversation – it was fun, and hopefully we'll meet in person sometime.
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Hartmut Jenner40:57
I enjoyed the conversation too.
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Interviewer41:00
And for anyone interested in what people do when they, unlike the Kärcher family, got rich through an IPO – check out wiwo.de or the new cover story of Wirtschaftswoche: 'How the New Super-Rich Tick.' I wish you fun reading and a great time until the next Chefgespräch. Please send criticism, praise, and suggestions to [email protected]. I'd be eternally grateful for a positive review of this podcast. Stay healthy.