C-suite across industries are focusing on how AI and data will move their companies forward in this digital age. Today's guest revolutionized media in the digital age and pioneered data measurements in the agency world. But he also knows the importance of a people-first approach. Unboxing is a show about reinventing leadership in chaotic times. Each week we connect with leaders in business and tech and ask them, what did you have to unlearn to succeed?
Again, I'm Richard Tobacco.
Most executives lead one major transformation in a career. Today's guest has led six. David Kenny started his career at Bain, then co-founded Digital Asset in 1996. At a moment when barely anyone understood what a digital agency was, let alone why they'd need one, he took it public, sold it to Publicis for over $1 billion, and left. Then he went to Akamai, then the Weather Company, which IBM acquired under his leadership for more than $2 billion. Then he ran IBM Watson, and then David became CEO of Nielsen, one of the most storied and most disrupted companies in the history of media. At Nielsen, he didn't just run the company. He led it through the two largest transactions in its 100-year history, and he added a second title, chief diversity officer, not because the board asked him to, but because he decided that the CEO is the most powerful person in the room. And if inclusion isn't the CEO's job, it won't get done. David is now executive chairman of Nielsen, chairman of the board at Best Buy, and chairman of Teach for America. And the question we want to dig into is a simple one. How does someone reinvent themselves that many times in that many different industries without losing the thread of who they are? This is a conversation about transformation from someone who has lived it, not as a strategy, but as a way of being.
David, what I'd like to start with is you've been a binary in lots of different places and have been both at Bain and what brought us to Humphrey, which became Digitize. You then were at Publicis. You then went to Akamai, then to Weather Company, slash IBM, then to Nielsen. And with the exception of probably Digitize and Publicis where you see some link, it seems that you were going about as far from one industry to another industry. So clearly you were either unlearning a lot or learning new things. So can you explain a little bit of what you were up to?
Yeah, that sounds like a lot. It's over four decades, but I would say Bain was a great general background. After that, each of those situations, they all reached out to me to lead the company wanting something I had learned. Michael Bronner wanted somebody who knew management and how to scale because they'd hit a wall. And that was when we reimagined the whole agency as Digitize. And then, of course, Publicis acquired it. Akamai wanted somebody who understood the future of digital media, and so did Weather, and then Weather I learned a lot about machine learning, which is why I wanted it for Watson. And then it came all the way back to Nielsen, who wanted that expertise. Every time I learned something, that was a hook to the next thing, then I had a lot more to learn. And so I would say I've been blessed by continuing to advance my education every day for the last four decades. And now in the boards I'm involved, I'm continuing to learn as quickly as I can. And that gives me great joy to keep learning, and I'm going to keep doing it.
One of the things that, in addition to learning in all those years across all these different companies, you also mentored a lot of people. And unlike people like me who are self-employed, some of your people have actually turned out to be really successful.
Well, I think you've been successful as well. But one measure I have is, am I developing people who can be the CEO of large organizations? So I do have a list. I've got 38 CEOs of billion-dollar plus companies that worked for me along the way, and that's on them. They've earned that. But I'd like to believe in many of those cases, helping people see themselves on a different scale, helping people round out their skills has been great and has been great for me because they've delivered in whatever company we work together in. But I think what's also been important is to want their success, even though many of them left me to go run something else. So I'm super proud of those folks. Everyone from Rochelle Parham to Sean Cohen to Pat Dodd. I could go on. There's just a great list of leaders out there that I was lucky to work with.
I'd like to build on that, David, and I'm very curious, obviously without divulging names or anything, but what are they asking you in terms of these mentor-oriented relationships you have now, whether it's with many of these CEOs or just other people that you're actively mentoring? It's a very complex, interesting, challenging time. So I'm very curious what they're asking you for your advice right now.
And I also am fortunate to work with some CEOs with whose boards I'm on. I think a lot of folks are trying to figure out how to navigate and keep moving forward when there is so much uncertainty. AI, you know, it becomes cliche, but those technologies really will affect every function. So how does it affect it? How do you do it since you don't know where it's going to land? How do you keep moving forward if you used to have a moat? Is that moat challenged by AI? What do you do about it? I think folks are also trying to navigate fundamental shifts in consumer behavior and in their employee bases. There's an increasingly broad range of opinions about the right way to proceed in the world. If you run a global business, it's very difficult because global businesses used to have one view of the United States, and now they have a different view of the United States, and that's causing people to reconsider so many things. And I would say a lot of folks are, how do I manage to keep moving forward when so much of what I've learned to date is now changing?
In terms of what you've learned over the years, David, in terms of managing uncertainty, when you enter a time of great uncertainty, what are the best practices in navigating through that?
I think it's just so important you have a compass so you can keep track of where true north is. So I encourage folks to get to the short list of things that haven't changed. Number one on that is humans. I still believe in human beings. I believe human beings are generally kind. Human beings are generally trying to make the best life they can for their families, and they're all constrained. 24 hours a day is all any of us have. Not one minute more. None of this technology is making us more efficient, but it hasn't created more time. So people need to invest that time wisely every minute. And so making sure you're helping people use all their resources, especially their time, in the most productive way. I think knowing the values of the company, knowing the customer base, and then really helping everybody allocate scarce resources gets you to the other end. And so when many things are uncertain, you start with what is certain. Because if you lose that, if you change, if you make decisions that are not consistent with values or you don't respect people's time and resources, it'll backfire.
I really like the true north analogy. That's great. When you look ahead, do you tell people on things that they should throw away because it's thinking that makes no sense anymore?
I think people have to walk away from the idea that if humans do it, it's more accurate than if machines do it. That's comforting to the humans, but it actually isn't backed by empirical evidence, and it causes people to defend what they think they do better than a machine, as opposed to just saying, what is the best way to do this? What's going to get to the best answer? So leaning into the outcome versus the input, I think is super important. And so I think it is important to unlearn any sense that a human does this better and simply say, what could the human and machine do together? I think secondly, it is part of what you guys are getting at with unboxing. Generally, I think you have to get away from the answer of a structured top-down organization. You have to get away from the idea that somehow there's a strategy built at the top that then pushes through the C-suite and then pushes through the next level of management, and then people know what to do because, you know, AI is a great enabler, which means the front line often has information at the same time or faster than you do. And in fact, you know, what's really important is to listen the other way up. What is the front line hearing? How would they adapt the strategy to meet an individual customer, an individual need? And how can you go faster by creating more authority and more decision-making at the front line?
Going back a little bit, David, on uncertainty, which obviously permeates the conversation. And there is a difference between when someone faces uncertainty and when they have fear. And throughout the project, excuse me, in every conversation that Rashaad and I seem to have, there's a lot of fear out there from the most senior executives all the way down to the front lines. And I'm very curious to get your thoughts on how do you manage that, and how do you manage your own fear and recommendation for people who are fearful, even if they're very senior and accomplished? But also how do you manage a team's fear? Because uncertainty is one thing and fear is another. And I'd love your thoughts on that.
Yeah. In all the businesses I've been in, it's been a transition. Digitize started as a direct marketing company that became an internet company, and then it was about getting all the Publicis to be digital first, and certainly Weather went from a TV channel to a mobile property. And Nielsen has been at a big change as we put streaming in the ratings. And where I keep encouraging people is a little fear is okay, because in all those cases, it was the fear of becoming less relevant that drove us to make the change. And then I think the second part is what could go wrong? What are you actually afraid of? And what if it came true? Is it irreversible, or can you course correct? If it came true, what would we do about it? And in many cases, that calms you down because you actually realize the risk of not taking the action could actually be more devastating than taking and having things go a little wrong. And I think what's not good is to say, don't have fear, because I think that's not practical. And quite honestly, I have found fear to be a useful motivator in moderation.
Is there anything you can do from a cultural organizational perspective? And I'm like you, I'm an embrace the chaos kind of guy, right? And I'm an entrepreneur, so I guess I'm built for that and I have that DNA. But a lot of people across large organizations may not have that DNA. How can you help them from a cultural perspective to embrace the chaos and take this on type of feeling?
I think what's important is to celebrate mistakes even when they don't turn out right. And so we certainly had some fits and starts in the way we measured streaming at Nielsen. Every board meeting we do something called 15 Minutes of Fame, which is to bring someone from the middle of the organization to show off what their team has done. And I made a point that half of those had to be things that didn't work, and what did we learn from those, and how did we celebrate that and how did it make the product stronger from there? So I think that was one thing. The second thing is I also believe gardens don't grow if you don't weed them. And I think it's really important that you ask people to leave if they manage through fear. Because cultures don't just get established from town halls and value statements; they get driven by individual managers doing individual things. And when you see people driving their teams through fear and anger, then I think that's just counterproductive. And you coach people a little bit, but some people have just learned that way of managing, and I think you got to weed them from your garden and let them go work elsewhere.
When you were the CEO of Nielsen for a period of time, you also made yourself the chief diversity inclusion officer. And this whole area of DEI has gone from high tide to low tide. But you haven't changed. So maybe one of those things that don't change for you because it's important. So speak a little bit about your belief and your commitment that has not wavered.
