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Ayla Majid
Global President (2024-2025 term), Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA)

Talk by Ayla Majid @ The Future Summit

🎥 Oct 24, 2017 📺 Nutshell Group ⏱ 55m 👁 1109 views
Address by Global Council Member, ACCA & Young Global Leader, World Economic Forum, Ayla Majid at The Future Summit held on October 24 & 25, 2017 at Movenpick Hotel, Karachi.
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Transcript (29 segments)
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Host0:08
A second, and let's bring the next session down to something much more immediate, much more relevant to Pakistan and perhaps the business of a lot of people in this room. We're going to talk about the relationship with China, the One Belt One Road project and CPEC. We were hoping to have Senator Mushahir Sayed but unfortunately he can't make it. Nonetheless, we have the rest of the panel who will engage you in the ideas and relevance of the One Belt One Road project in a Pakistan context for the next 45 minutes. Sajid Aslam is the country head for Pakistan of ACCA, please join us. The global council member of ACCA and a young global leader at the World Economic Forum. They'll have a chat about these events and maybe we can get a few questions from the floor at the end. Thank you very much. Which side? Yeah, okay.
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Sajid Aslam1:21
And good afternoon. I hope we can hear some voice back. So I think it's going to be an interesting one. So we would like to have your attention there. The format which we are trying to evolve is something which we used in Islamabad as well. It's a Belt and Road beyond CPEC. We are very thankful to Ayla. She will be presenting and setting the scene of what ACCA has done so far in terms of the research, what are our findings. So we will try to take 10 or 15 minutes max. And then we will try to get more questions from the audience in terms of what they think and what the level of understanding exists in the room, particularly around the opportunity where the opportunity lies and how we can really materialize that opportunity. So I think here I'd like to have Ayla present some slides around raising the awareness of where ACCA stands in terms of its research. Please.
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Ayla Majid2:30
Assalamu alaikum everyone. So Belt and Road is a very interesting project that we in Pakistan have been talking about since 2013. A lot of people have speculations, unanswered questions, and see it as an opportunity. Here representing ACCA, I'll share the broader context of what is One Belt One Road, then talk about one of the corridors, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, and what people think about it. ACCA has done considerable work on this. ACCA is a global body of accountants, almost 200,000 members around the globe, present in 24 of the 60 plus Belt and Road countries. We figured we need to move with the new world economic order, so we've been doing a lot of research. I'll share findings from two reports: 'Belt and Road Initiative: Reshaping the Global Value Chain' and 'Opportunities in Pakistan and particularly around the CPEC corridor.' So what is One Belt One Road? There are five priorities: global trade, policy coordination, people-to-people relationship, and connecting infrastructure. Infrastructure is the most important to create linkages. Belt and Road affects about one-third of the world's GDP and two-thirds of the global population, connecting 4.4 billion people in over 60 countries. The map shows six corridors, including the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. It is about rebalancing the global economy, the new economic order, and promoting globalization. Millennials do not believe in boundaries, and this is what they want. Bulk of this is about creating infrastructure. McKinsey has predicted global infrastructure needs of about $50 trillion till 2030. I'll link this with CPEC. Obviously, there are geopolitics, but even if it is geopolitics, it's majorly about geoeconomics. There are concerns about China becoming the largest economy, but we need to think differently. There are external challenges like market instabilities, competition, turmoil, trade protectionism, but overall we see positive things. Moving on to CPEC: we've been hearing the magic number of $46 billion. In the global context, that's only 0.13% of the $50 trillion needed. Pakistan's infrastructure index is close to Nigeria's. We need to invest. Bulk of this infrastructure development is through public-private partnership. The major chunk is energy, then roads, transport, rail, and economic zones. It will create about 700,000 to 800,000 jobs and increase Pakistan's economy by 2.5%. ACCA interviewed 500 companies: 79% said it's part of their five-year plan, 86% want to learn the language. There are challenges, but strengths include human capital, natural resources, strategic location. Opportunities include public-private partnership, job opportunities, outsourcing. The biggest weakness is lack of awareness, so we are having this discourse. There are concerns about transparency and environmental degradation, but strengths and opportunities outweigh threats and weaknesses. I encourage you to ask yourself how this will affect your life and organization. We need to learn new skills, prepare human resources, and engage with experts. Think ahead. The entire project is about inclusive growth, not just economic but social. It's about creating a more harmonized and peaceful world. We want to co-exist and create a better humanity. Thank you. Happy to take questions.
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Sajid Aslam21:50
Thank you, Ayla. I hope most of the people have found this particular slides and presentation very informative and interesting, but we do request just visit the website and see the entire detailed report. It has case studies and reflects on how Chinese companies and Pakistani companies are taking advantage. Just to open the forum for questions, my first question I'll pick up with Ayla and then we open the entire forum. Ayla, given that you are heavily involved in this research and also involved in some of the transactions from Pakistan perspective, which stakeholder you believe can drive this benefit or the CPEC in general as an opportunity for our society or our economy?
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Ayla Majid22:44
I think it's a very simple answer: the private sector and the people of the country. Everybody has got an opportunity in this whole pie. It is about increasing your business, your trade, your access to global markets, and also benefiting financially, economically, and in terms of human capital development.
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Sajid Aslam23:17
Now thank you. I think while we are talking about the private sector and the biggest change which Pakistan is going to face, and Pakistan is not the only one, it's one of the six corridors. So now we open the floor for questions. Do you feel the same like we have seen there are a lot of leaders sitting right now here? Do you feel that it's the private sector and business and entrepreneurs who can really drive this forward and make it an opportunity for Pakistan?
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Audience Member23:55
May I throw in the first question? Because this is a fascinating conversation and I want to cause trouble. I want to make things difficult for you for a second. I've heard everything you've said about the plan, the potential, the threats, the weaknesses, the strengths, the opportunities. But I still want to ask this one question: Is the Belt and Road China's attempt to take over not just Pakistan but most of Asia?
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Ayla Majid24:33
I think I would go back to something that I said a little bit earlier. How is the world moving forward? How do people integrate with each other? Do we really want a world where countries are apart, people are apart? Obviously everybody needs to look at their own interests, but globally, how is the world moving forward? People need to be connected. They want to be at peace with each other. I personally do not see this as China's attempt to take over. China cannot build this entire project on their own. It is about China's partnership with many different countries. It is about inclusive growth. I personally don't feel even the slightest bit of threat. What we need at the country level is a good regulatory framework and the right kind of policy. But we cannot let inertia hold us back. We need to overcome this inertia and turn this threat into an opportunity.
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Sajid Aslam26:05
Just to add one thing on that: are we ready to be taken over? That's the other question. Are we ready as Pakistan to be taken over by China, or can we create opportunity for ourselves?
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Audience Member26:24
I have a question. How many people can easily get a visa to China? All the agreement is like... Let me explain something. When we met different people in the business community, we have a perception that this whole agreement is like a unilateral agreement, not bilateral. First of all, second, if you visit their projects, you can find many prisoners working in their projects, and they prefer their people to work on the project, not our people. They have their separate communities, separate colonies. Everything is totally separate. And how can we as Muslim people gel with people who are very less in ethics? I tell you, because they are very open to eat everything. We are not. Muslim people working with them are not totally comfortable on the projects, facing many challenges in daily life. So it looks like China is ready to take over this country as a colony, and it is a general perception. Ma'am, can you explain?
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Ayla Majid27:35
Thank you so much for calling it a perception, because it is very much a perception. I'm glad you asked this question because a lot of people feel that. If in a project Chinese people are working, I don't see that as a problem as long as they bring the skill set. You mentioned that there are prisoners working. How does that affect your life? Personally, I don't think that would affect your life as long as those people are regulated. That's again a perception. And when we talk about coming from a culture which is not so open, we've got our own culture, but we've got to be open to let others have their own culture. When I've asked various Chinese people how they see their interaction with people from other parts of the world, they do not want to impose their culture at all. I was at a similar conversation in the Middle East last month, and a Chinese professor was asked the same. He said we don't differentiate people on the basis of being Muslim or Jew or any other religion. We want our own interest in terms of economic growth and inclusive growth. A lot of Pakistanis and Muslims are working in different parts of the world in sync with the rest of the world and have been great success stories. We need to open our minds and break these mental barriers. Explore more and do away with these mental barriers. Increase your knowledge and look at whether these perceptions are created by the media or what is your own linkage. Are you being affected? I'll leave you with that.
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Sajid Aslam30:17
If we should wait for the microphone, there's a lady in the microphone here.
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Audience Member30:22
My question is, and I've heard these questions that have been asked before me, and I feel a lot of this insecurity about China taking over stems from us being insecure about our skills, that maybe we won't be able to deliver. So I just want to ask, what do you see as the role of the education system in Pakistan in training the skills needed, both in the government sector and private schools?
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Sajid Aslam30:55
Thank you. I think very well put. You rightly picked up that it's our fears and insecurity which is not letting us see the realities. I would like to highlight that the Belt and Road has six corridors. CPEC is the one which has made significant progress so far. The opportunity for Pakistan is to support China in building capability and skill set to help them do the other five as well. That's a big business opportunity. From an education perspective, we have identified the skill sets required, particularly with Belt and Road opportunities. Understanding the contract, the benefits, and connectivity is important. Research capability, critical thinking, and leadership are needed. Training around culture is also important. Most of the time, Chinese adopt the culture of the destination country. But knowing our own culture, there are ethical dilemmas. Ethics is another area we have to bring back to our education system. Civic sense, trust, conflict management are competencies that need to be blended into regular education. Our education system does not suffer from lack of talented people, but from not building systems to let them ask questions. They are more keen on getting answers straight away without thought process. So we need to build critical thinking, asking questions, doing research, not building opinions based on others' opinions. These are the capabilities we are looking for, whether at early stage, university, or professional education like ACCA.
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Ayla Majid32:32
Yeah, I'll just very briefly add one thing to this. We really need to rethink our education infrastructure and model. We need to produce leaders for tomorrow. When the future is changing, the existing enabling environment of the education system may not be fit for the future. So we need to continuously think and evolve in that domain.
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Audience Member35:14
Also, couple of years, Pakistan economy has suffered, particularly the engineering industry in terms of dumping by China in Pakistan. That is a fact of life, you may agree or not. The second issue I want to highlight is that in imports, in Gwadar, for 40 years you've given them the right to bring in goods without duty. That is going to kill your industry. What are you trying to promote here?
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Ayla Majid35:56
All right. Okay, so you know, first of all, we need to look at what we have to offer. Have we invested enough? Have we diversified enough in our own industry? What do we have to offer to the rest of the world in terms of competitive products and services? There are certain sectors where Pakistan has its strength, but we need to look inward. Regardless of China, Pakistan's exports have gone down because the world has evolved in production, bringing down costs, having access to global markets. If we do not stay relevant, it is not just CPEC, but we can face threats. I'll give you an example of Nokia. Nokia started with making wood cutting machines and became one of the finest engineering models and developed phones. How many of you use Nokia phones? A few people. Less than a percent. Companies, countries, people, if they want to stay relevant, they need to invest in themselves. Now coming back to the industry, how Pakistan industry will be affected: we need the right kind of policy framework and regulatory framework. Our policy makers need to think this through to benefit local industry and population. Here I find a great opportunity for Pakistan businesses to work with Chinese. We need to look for opportunities within these threats.
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Audience Member39:14
What we have experienced in the past, can we go steps forward as far as China is concerned? That flexibility or opportunity is not given to most of the Western countries. I can give you many examples. When we talk about our industry, you said we have to increase our pie. Our pie is limited for probably 200 million people. We need to increase our skills. Already our industry has badly suffered because of China after 2005. We have very few standing. Textile is one of them. After 2005, our hosiery industry has totally gone. And as a joke, China announced can we give you privilege exports of hosiery items to China, and we couldn't export even a million dollars. What to say? The threat is, if we don't set do's and don'ts for China especially to safeguard our industry, tomorrow they are going to take over all our industry and their own people will be working over there like they are doing in other parts of the world. Because they have to look after the interest of their people, they have to feed more than a billion people. All these projects with China financing are not for the sake of Pakistan; it is their interest. Moreover, you have highlighted very few things where we do have opportunities. Right now we are looking only at agriculture that is going to be exported to either Russia and China or other countries, and that is likely to bring another pressure to the people of Pakistan because those products which are cheaply available will become extremely expensive for the poor.
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Sajid Aslam41:08
I think it's a very fair assumption that the competition is going to be extensive. Even without CPEC, competition is going to be extensive. How we will survive? That's a wonderful feedback and that's why this conversation is taking place. We can't do it alone; we can do it collectively. We have to bring that feedback back to the policy makers. They are waiting for the private sector to move on, come back, work with them, work through them, and make sure these opportunities and challenges can be addressed. Right now, our research reflects the lack of awareness and initiative. People are still not very clear who is doing what and when. We have our fears and we are bringing those concerns out in different conferences. I think now it's time to really create groups from the private sector and entrepreneurship to see the opportunity, go back and engage with the policy maker, and even assist them in how the policy should be. This is exactly what's happening in China: their private sector and companies engage with the Chinese government and drive policy. That's why when you go back to the Belt and Road, there is policy coordination. But policies cannot come up out of nowhere; somebody has to provide guidance. In our society, fears, concerns, and perceptions are higher than tangible steps we can take. Before rejecting it as an opportunity, the general consensus is there is an opportunity, but also competition and threats. The question is how we take tangible steps to get engaged, analyze, explore, and make sure policies being formed are formed in the right way. Right now, we have seen a very small stuff around CPEC, more around energy and roads. We haven't started thinking about economic zones, labor, standardization of transportation, etc. These are things that have to go back. Whether we protect certain industries like textile from Chinese investment, that's private sector feedback to policy maker. But are we making those steps? That's the question. That's why we need more engagement. When we talk about seven key areas, explore, engage, and guide the government. Government can't do that without the private sector. Ultimately, the beneficiary or driver is going to be business. If business is not engaging, that will remain a challenge. These forums are to promote that thought of where responsibility lies. All threats we can talk about for days, but how to resolve them, what steps to take, that's the key purpose.
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Ayla Majid44:21
Okay, I have a question. I'll just add to what's said. What is the biggest resource that we have? It's our human resource. This human resource with brilliant ideas can actually take over the world in terms of economics.
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Sajid Aslam44:41
We have time for one more question.
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Audience Member44:57
It was an excellent presentation, especially about CPEC. But I just want to add a few things. The great game being played is for economics, and for that China has launched OBOR. OBOR has become one of the main components of the great game. Similarly, CPEC becomes the main component of OBOR, and CPEC's main component is Gwadar. The other main component is the Gwadar port. Till we don't operationalize Gwadar port, I don't think we are going to achieve what this whole project is launched for. Miss Ayla, you didn't talk about Gwadar, whereas I personally feel to please operationalize the Gwadar port and link it with Kashgar and Central Asia. That is the basic concept of CPEC. We are going away from the basic concept. One of the slides you showed almost 75% is being spent on energy and rest on infrastructure. So I will request that in your presentation you should include the importance of Gwadar. Once we operationalize Gwadar, we can do transshipment, transit trade, and then develop economic zones. I will just say one slogan: Build Gwadar and develop Pakistan. Thank you.
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Sajid Aslam46:44
I think we'll take one or two more questions all together.
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Bilal46:52
My name is Bilal. I wanted to add something that the gentleman over there said that we are being colonized by China. So basically, yesterday from SCCMC we had a presentation where they said that they have given total opportunity to the Tharis because they are using their land, their resources, so at the end of the day the Tharis should get the most benefit. So referring to the gentleman who just added, when we are taking away local labor and jobs and getting Chinese people in there, eventually we will end up just like Sui or Balochistan that we cannot do anything there and people will be highly upset about other nationalities coming in and working on their grounds and taking away all resources. Secondly, my question is that all the toll that will be generated by CPEC is the property of China; Pakistan doesn't get any share out of it. So how does that benefit us? Thirdly, the economic zones which are being built, whether we will be allowed to do anything in it or it will be all China owned. These are the questions which are for everyone and everyone wants to know because people have been doing political scoring on it and providing energy and nothing more than that.
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Ayla Majid48:38
All right, so quickly on Gwadar and Bilal's point about the model implemented by the company. I said at my presentation also that I am a firm believer that there has to be social and economic inclusion. I love the model that they have there, and I said that this is what we need to do: look after the local people throughout the economic corridor in Pakistan, provide these people opportunity. We need to create that environment, work together. The private sector needs to work with policy makers. Policy makers need to hear from us how this is all going to benefit. So I would completely echo the same understanding. Gwadar is essentially important, and we need to empower the local people and provide them opportunity, not make them sufferers like in Sui, but make them beneficiaries like in Thar. Now coming back to the toll roads: toll roads have different models. Who is the user? The ultimate user is actually paying. Whether it is developed by finance from the US, Germany, Pakistan, or China, it has to be paid back. But look at the economic benefit. Do not look only in isolation at fund flow. Capital doesn't have borders. We need to look at the fund flow and the ultimate economic benefit. Pakistan is a country stressed in terms of finance, and public-private partnership is the answer. If private finance can come from Pakistan, excellent. If it comes from any other part of the world, it's completely fine.
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Sajid Aslam50:37
And one final comment, please, from Mr. Khalid.
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Khalid Awan50:41
Thank you very much. That was an excellent presentation by the presenters. My name is Khalid Awan, and I want to very respectfully leave some thought with the audience. There's a saying: the day will happen whether you wake up or not. This initiative of One Belt One Road is a Chinese-driven initiative. Pakistan has only a reactive role in it. It is a global initiative that will set the trend of the global economy for decades to come, especially for the new generation. All the skepticism that has been heard is very valid, and these are things we all think from our point of view. This is a time when not only Pakistan but 60 nations around the world are affected and will benefit to greater or lesser extent. It is the quality of your engagement with the main movers of this that determines how you benefit. Some countries will benefit greatly, some not so much. South Africa, for example, negotiated with the Chinese in a very astute manner that any project there would have majority South African participation. These are things in the domain of our political leadership, and unfortunately we haven't seen that kind of engagement to set the direction. So it is forums like this, and businesses will have to adapt. Business always adapts to economic realities and changing times. It's a much bigger, more pervasive thing that will shape the future of our economy, the future of the world, and our younger generations. I can't emphasize more that we take a very professional and deep view on these things and engage and take it very seriously. Thank you.
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Sajid Aslam53:02
Thank you very much. I think that's the key message we are bringing in. When we talk about economic zones, they are being formulated. Engage. When we talk about the contract and structure, engage. Policy makers are looking for input. They might not have the initiative which private sector can have. Please engage, form some groups who can work in that direction. We have to engage as a private sector back to the policy maker. This is a new thing for them as well. They have their own challenges. We can help them understand it better in economic reality and make it happen. And rightly said, it is going to happen whether we take benefit or not. So let's see the opportunity side and make it happen by engaging better. Here I'll thank the audience and specifically thank Ayla for presenting all that. Please show your appreciation for our panelists.
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Host53:56
A fascinating discussion. Could I please ask Mr. Asha Khan to come back to the stage and present our panelists with the token of our appreciation? Good question. I thought I'd throw the cat among the pigeons. Thank you so much.