CEOInterviews.AIInterview with Bernd Roggendorf: from Ableton to Altruism *Audio Only*

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Bernd Roggendorf0:11

Well, I looked over the shoulder of musicians and saw how they were producing music. At that time, it was a fever that in five or ten years the whole studio would go into software. Looking at that and the possibilities to make it even faster, we created a company. The important thing was that it changed the user: previously it was sound engineers using the software, now it's musicians using it, which required totally different software. That's what we did. Now pretty much everyone in electronic music uses Ableton.

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Interviewer1:06

So how did you go from being a music guy to doing what you do now? Talk about that transition and what happened when you left day-to-day at Ableton.

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Bernd Roggendorf1:20

At some point I had enough money from the company and I was diagnosed with a tumor. It made me think about what I wanted to do in life. I felt an urge to do something more profoundly good. So I stepped down as CTO, took my wife and two children, and traveled around the world. We tried to get as close to the poor as we could. For example, we lived for three months in a slum in Africa. It was a really intense experience.

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Interviewer2:11

That gave you perspective on the issues people in tough situations face. How did you go from experiencing that to doing something about it? What was your thought process?

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Bernd Roggendorf2:28

I was overwhelmed by the complexity and size of the problems. When I came back to Germany, I was ready to give up and focus on something smaller. Then I watched my six-year-old daughter using math learning software. Sometimes she learned a new concept on her own with just the computer. I thought, what if this could happen without needing a teacher in between? It's probably just a question of better software. I'm a software guy, so I thought, let's try that.

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Interviewer3:27

So you started a business, made money, saw a problem, and built a solution. That's what we want entrepreneurs to do: make money, then solve big tough problems. Could you explain the concept behind what you do now?

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Bernd Roggendorf4:04

The idea is to take a smartphone to a child, starting at preschool age, and have the child learn substantial things like getting school-ready in math just by communicating with apps. No adults needed. We also go into environments like slums and test the software with teachers and parents to make sure it works there.

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Interviewer4:59

So you're iterating with the users and teachers. Why education specifically, instead of other issues in slums?

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Bernd Roggendorf5:08

Education is a prerequisite for many social changes. It empowers people to solve their own problems. Also, 95% of the world lives within reach of a cell tower, and most have a mobile phone. In the next decade, everyone will have a smartphone. So we don't need to bring technology; we just need to build software. The potential is fantastic.

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Interviewer6:08

Software is teaching the world. You take a different approach by using machine learning. Can you talk about that?

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Bernd Roggendorf6:24

We want an autonomous system. Usually a teacher chooses the right exercise. We use machine learning algorithms to find the best exercise for every child, personalized, over and over again.

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Interviewer6:55

I understand it's early and you're self-funding. Talk about where you are with team, product, and the future.

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Bernd Roggendorf7:07

Very early, more like research than a startup. We have many problems to solve, need a huge pile of content. We'll open the system so others can provide content too. We need to start with something that improves learning success and use randomized control trials to show evidence. Currently our team in Germany is 14 people.

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Interviewer7:47

What are the biggest contrasts between starting a social business and a for-profit?

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Bernd Roggendorf7:54

The problem is much bigger. But I always felt Ableton was social too, because we wanted to bring creativity to the world. Being nonprofit or for-profit doesn't matter as much as measuring the intended impact. Even with teacher support, we need proven learning success before it matters.

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Interviewer9:11

What about the skills exchange between the two sectors? Can for-profit teach nonprofit and vice versa?

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Bernd Roggendorf9:25

They are very close. Many nonprofits are adopting startup thinking. The difference is traditional NGOs that optimize for donors become inefficient like governments. The ones we saw today are transparent and fast-iterating, very similar to startups.

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Interviewer10:06

Let's open for questions. Raise your hand if you have a question.

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Aaron Sammy10:21

Hi, I'm Aaron Sammy. When you lived for three months with your family in the slums, what was the most surprising thing you learned as a family?

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Bernd Roggendorf10:37

The complexity of everything. You think you can change something, but the social systems are so complex. Governments often screw up because it's so tricky. That was the most important thing to learn. There are no silver bullets.

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Interviewer11:16

Anyone else? How did you decide to build your own solution instead of investing in something existing?

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Bernd Roggendorf11:36

As a software developer, I always think I can find a good solution. But I looked at the market and couldn't find anything with the potential to work in very poor environments. They need more than just the learning aspect.

Yes, we are not a nonprofit. I like that businesses have a growth engine. The problem is gigantic: a billion children get bad education. To solve it, you need massive scaling. With a business model, it's faster and you can attract the best people.

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Audience Member13:06

Your website said you have a new equity model. Could you amplify that?

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Bernd Roggendorf13:13

I started the company as a for-profit, but I don't need more money. So I plan to donate 100% of the shares to employees and supporters over the years. I'm also an employee, so I get some back, but I'll reinvest it into the system.

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Audience Member14:09

Tell us a little more about how you're using machine learning.

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Bernd Roggendorf14:19

We have thousands of exercises and activities for kids. To help each child learn, we need fine-grained difficulty progressions. For each child, we use machine learning to choose the best path.

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Interviewer15:06

I'm not so familiar with what's going on in health. Oh hey, what else? Thank you very much.

So Bernd, if you had to give a key takeaway about your journey and what you'd encourage others with success to do, what would it be?

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Bernd Roggendorf15:43

Go to the places and see them firsthand. If you're connected, you'll act. If not, do something else. But I'm sure if you see the world, you'll do something. So go out there and do it.

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Interviewer16:06

Alright, big round of applause for Bernd. Thank you.

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Applause16:10

[Applause]