Chief Executive Officer, Air France, Air France (Société Air France S.A.)
When Air France undergoes a revolution. Interview with Anne Rigail, CEO of Air France
Airlines are often considered among the world's most polluting companies. Anne Rigail, CEO of Air France, explains how she is accelerating the greening of its aircraft.
👉 Watch the full episode of "Pourvu que ça dure" (May It Last): Greener Holidays? https://bit.ly/3lWAsEq
About Anne Rigail
In a March 2022 conference, Anne Rigail discussed Air France's recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic and the impact of geopolitical uncertainty on the airline. She stated that Air France had received 7 billion euros in state-backed loans and was required to meet commitments on competitiveness and the environment, but had not committed to purchasing only Airbus aircraft. Rigail noted that business travel demand had declined, with corporate clients making up about 40% of passengers in March 2022, and acknowledged the uncertainty surrounding future demand. Rigail also addressed the airline's environmental impact, stating that air transport accounts for approximately 2.6% of CO2 emissions, but warned that without action this could rise to over 20% by 2050. She discussed Air France's use of sustainable aviation fuels and the company's position on a European kerosene tax. Additionally, Rigail encouraged women to pursue careers in aviation and technology, noting that the airline was hiring for digital and data roles.
Transcript (25 segments)
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Interviewer0:00
Traveling more eco-friendly by plane, is it really possible? We discuss it with Anne Rigail, CEO of Air France. Hello, Anne Rigail is with us. Please sit down. Thank you to André Patron from the Guide du Routard, who was here just before you, who told us about this disaffection of some travelers for the plane, especially exclusively for weekends like that, trips to a European capital, going by plane for 2-3 days. You also see that? You had started to observe signs in 2019 from our clients, earlier, business clients who told us to rework their travel policy.
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Anne Rigail0:34
I think that the Covid crisis was an opportunity for each of us and for our clients to ask a number of questions, particularly about how they would live differently, and especially travel and leave for longer, not just for a single weekend, maybe combine a bit more. There is a real trend.
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Interviewer0:57
What do you say to those who see airlines as one of the most polluting companies in the world?
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Anne Rigail1:04
We are obviously aware of our impact on the environment. We have never denied it. We started working on our decarbonization trajectories many years ago. Today we are doing it, relying on decarbonization trajectories based on science. We set shorter-term goals. I would say that since 2005 we have made progress. We have reduced our CO2 emissions in absolute value by 6%, despite traffic growth for Air France of 32%. And transparently, the group is among the good students.
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Interviewer1:43
I came across a ranking from September 2020 by Atmosphere, a non-profit organization, which compared the 200 largest airlines in the world on their greenhouse gas emissions. Air France does not appear in the top 10. I thought at the time, were you behind? And maybe that explains why today you are accelerating your greening, with new ambitions.
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Anne Rigail2:05
So acceleration at supersonic speed? In any case, after these first decarbonization efforts, we are setting shorter-term goals. The IPCC told us there is an urgency, so we have obviously set, with all airlines in the world, the goal of decarbonizing by 2050. But that's not enough. The goal is 2030, 2031 to be precise. It's not about doing like others in 2029 and 2030. We start from a 12% reduction in CO2 emissions compared to 2019. Now we have to face it. It seems ambitious, 12% is ambitious. It's 30% less per passenger kilometer, but 12% in absolute value with the assumptions we have of intense traffic activity.
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Interviewer2:35
Because it seems ambitious like that, 12% is ambitious. It's 30% less per passenger kilometer, but 12% in absolute value with the assumptions we have of intense traffic activity. Exactly. So is it ambitious enough?
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Anne Rigail2:50
In any case, I think we are using all the levers at our disposal to the maximum. So you are right, we have a fleet that is aging. We have accelerated the renewal. The average age of the Air France fleet is 14 years for medium-haul.
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Interviewer3:08
What is the sector average, just to compare a little? It is a bit younger, actually. It depends on the companies. The Covid crisis has turned the subject upside down.
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Anne Rigail3:15
The four-engine aircraft, our A340s and A380s that were flying, all stopped in March 2020. And today we are spending one billion per year in investments, despite the absolutely gigantic financial impact of the crisis on our activity, to renew our fleet. The goal is 70% new generation by 2030. In terms of renewal per year, we receive, I don't want to say something wrong, 12 to 15 A120s? Actually, 120 A320neo medium-haul aircraft. This year we will receive 60 by 2025, and we are still receiving, I think, 6 A350s. We will have taken 20 by the end of the year. The goal is that nearly half of the fleet will be renewed with this type of aircraft, which consumes 20 to 25% less fuel because they are lighter, they are made of composite materials, the engines are much less greedy. And ultimately, the sector has continuous improvement in its performance. That's not enough, so we need to activate other levers.
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Interviewer4:32
The first lever is really fleet renewal. Yes, it is available, it is expensive, and we have a link: 1 billion per year. Apart from comparing that we will effectively produce every year despite the financial hole created by this crisis. After that, there is also the use of biofuels, which is essential to have a cleaner plane. What do we find in this biofuel? Explain, pedagogically.
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Anne Rigail4:57
It is made from used oils, from used oils, from forest waste. What is important is that the sustainable fuels that aviation can use, in European regulations for example, are second-generation fuels. So it's not necessarily what you put in your car or truck. They are not in competition with food. The idea is that over their entire life cycle, they emit 80% less CO2. That means that over the entire life cycle of a vegetable oil, the growth of the plant, the growth of waste, you save 80% of CO2. It's a huge lever.
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Interviewer5:44
That would mean that to reduce the carbon footprint of air transport, it would become the first lever. Today we only incorporate 1%. That's the French incorporation mandate. Target 10% in 2030. Our target is beyond the regulation, it's 5%? But still, if it's really for two reasons.
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Anne Rigail6:03
Because the first reason is that they are not available. There is a lack of sustainable fuels. Today, biofuels, we really need the energy companies to step up. We say this to TotalEnergies and all energy companies. What we see today is that between the French regulatory mandate and our business clients who, to reduce their scope 3, essentially for many companies, the travel of their employees, ask us to buy sustainable fuel, and we don't have enough to meet all the demand. And you see, we are accelerating to reach more than 10% by 2030 if we want to follow a decarbonization trajectory that will be validated by SBTi, the organization that can validate that our decarbonization makes sense. And then it will rise very sharply, because it is estimated that today we will need more than 60% sustainable fuel by 2050. Sustainable fuels that emit much less CO2 but cost much more. They talk about a surcharge compared to kerosene. How much? Today, between 4 and 8 times more expensive than kerosene.
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Interviewer7:10
They talk about a surcharge compared to kerosene. How much? Today, between 4 and 8 times more expensive than kerosene. There you go, knowing that I forgot to say, but it's important, the limit of the thing today is the limit because we produce little, so the virtuous circle really needs to be triggered.
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Anne Rigail7:19
Yes, I think the demand signal is there because there are regulations like ReFuelEU in Europe that impose thresholds that airlines will exceed. We ourselves announce that we will go beyond. And so effectively, the volumes need to generate a price drop. Because behind it, it's the customer who pays, I imagine.
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Interviewer7:46
So will it be transparent? Have you already increased the price of your tickets? Vacationers, our client, or linked to biofuels? So that on their tickets they would see very transparently the effect of the incorporation mandates.
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Anne Rigail7:59
A few euros today. It's a few euros, and we hope that more production volume will help contain these surcharges. But of course, traveling will have a cost in the future.
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Interviewer8:17
The question is whether customers will be willing to pay more and more, even to travel eco-friendly. And ultimately, if sustainable and green travel will not be reserved for an elite.
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Anne Rigail8:26
The goal and ambition that I get up every morning for is to succeed in having air transport that is not contrary to our vision of a decarbonization trajectory, and that it is not reserved, like in the 1960s, for a few happy few. In the United States, airlines even benefit from tax credits to encourage the use of these biofuels. In America, Air France is talking about this. It is part of the discussions we have with France and Europe, because it is important to understand that these regulations, if they take place in France while air transport is hyper-competitive and international, have relatively little chance. It is necessary at least that the regulation be European, even global. But yes, we think that incentives exist at the federal level in the United States, but also at the local level. Today, when you look for biofuel, you often have to look for it in San Francisco and Los Angeles because it is only 10% more expensive than conventional fuel. And why? Because between the federal and state incentives, we end up with prices that are a bit different from what we can find in Europe today.
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Interviewer9:34
Among the levers, Ms. Rigail, to reduce the carbon footprint of air transport, there is also eco-pilotage, which I discovered while preparing the interview. It's a way to be more virtuous. What does it consist of? Is it not, despite everything, a bit of a gimmick? Do we really have figures to show a real significant impact on CO2 emissions? Because we don't drive too fast when we are on the ground, I don't know.
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Anne Rigail9:50
Today, it's not the first lever. I didn't mention it as the first lever. Today, we estimate that it's a 3% reduction in emissions because effectively, we will taxi on one engine when we are on the taxiway. We will choose, with artificial intelligence and software, trajectories that optimize fuel consumption. So it's not the first lever, but we go for every percentage. And as we said, we need to activate all levers. It's also a great factor of engagement for our pilots, who are extremely motivated to succeed. It's a bit like when we try in a car to consume as little as possible. And also not to fill up with kerosene, to fly with just enough fuel, not 100% if not needed. Eco-pilotage is about carrying the minimum amount of fuel in complete safety. You have to constantly consider the context of the flight, airports, possible diversion airports, etc., and the trajectories. And we have more and more tools with Wi-Fi to know more precisely the impacts of different trajectories and constantly calculate what the consumption will be with such and such a trajectory.
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Interviewer11:08
The ultimate solution for traveling green and not emitting CO2 is the hydrogen plane, zero-emission planes. But that's not for right away, not before 2035. That's what Airbus tells us.
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Anne Rigail11:19
Airbus doesn't build planes, so I think the day a zero-carbon plane exists, we will be happy to buy it, like many airlines. And we also need to keep in mind that the hydrogen plane, like the electric plane, responds to limited distances. Airbus announces 3,500 km for hydrogen planes. But for a company like Air France, the majority of its emissions are from long-haul. So I would say that sustainable fuels from this point of view are absolutely essential, as well as the efficiency gains of engines and lighter planes.
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Interviewer11:51
Thank you very much, Anne Rigail, CEO of Air France. Thank you.