Architectural Talk | Manni Group meets MVRDV

I think it's getting, of course, more and more specific and more and more real. All kinds of tools are getting much better and of course we try to benefit from that. I think it started with the digital world, of course, now with BIM it's something which is there, you cannot avoid it and it's really good. Although, still there's a lot of debate around this, if you hand over for instance as an architect's firm your model to the engineering, not the engineers, the structural, no, the guys who are gonna make it, the constructor! In the end you always end up in a debate which is really weird because of course, everybody should really benefit from the fact that I'm always there, and you end up in a debate very often like up to what level and how you describe things and what layers and what not. But of course, this is something that we have to overcome again. It has this sort of trial and error but there's a lot of workflows we try to embed in how we work and how we approach our design, as often designs of ours are seen as something which is not, like the depot is very symmetrical, so that's the easy part but, as soon as there's more diversity, in either a facade or floor plans, it gets into, you want to avoid the handcraft, so how to do that in the best way and we more and more try to work out these workflows in how to also keep track of what you do. I don't know if you know the project "The Valley" in Amsterdam, it's just these three towers along the highway and they look very, as if they're rocks! So they look very irregular and they have a lot of balconies and they all look different and people always think they're looking at a render and they're like "Okay, nice project, but it's never going to happen" we said "No but it's, you know, we're at the top almost" and a lot of especially developers are just not believing that it's feasible within their budget, for instance, but then there, for instance, we through the design tools like Rhino and then going into Revit and having scripting teams etc, we developed the facades and its balconies with sort of 3D facade in such a way that it has repetitive elements, so it looks very irregular, but in the end, there's a whole set of the same that you sort of switch and use in different ways so in that sense, it became feasible and also, all the tiles that are there are different and through these, well, the software basically, we managed to, and also through the scripting we did, we managed to label each and every piece, in BIM you just label, of course, all the tiles so you know exactly the dimensioning, exactly how they're built up, and if something needs to be replaced it's very easy, so it's becoming really part of our daily routine, I would say, but there's much more to explore. We have a special team in our office for many things we have a team for specialties, but also for we call it Next and that's the group which is specialized in scripting and trying to combine that with the efficiency tool and also sustainability so it's something we explore all the time.

Yeah, funny enough of course no architect really wants to know about the budget, but then in the end, it's there, you know? It's there, and at some point and it happens of course in every process, you have to actually cut budget, or cut costs, sorry, so you have to see where to do and I have to say every time we have to do that in a dramatic way, it actually really improves the project, you really have, at first, it hurts, and then you're like "Uh, but actually, this makes much more sense!" because then you, I don't know, you get rid of all the fuzz and the things that you added because they're nice or whatever, but then you just have to really go for the pure thing and think again like what is the message that I actually want to tell and express? And yeah, of course, it's also rewarding I mean, if it works then and it still, you know, sticks to the concept and is as convincing as it was before or even more then yeah it's rewarding! So something we have to deal with, of course!

Yeah, of course, it's super important! But it's funny I think, the Tianjin library, of course, it's in China and so, social media is super hot especially there, I think that also helps to boost it and also next to the many iconic buildings, we also have lots which are not that iconic but really looking at a location in a different way or at a project or a brief. But of course, indeed either way whether it's iconic or not I think it's really important to see that what you have in mind, it's also indeed represented still when it's executed and that's where the design doesn't stop at the first render, you know? The design continues in the engineering part and the choice for materials and the detailing etc so in any case the control on-site is super important. And of course nowadays as architects you actually get shorter and shorter commissions, sometimes you only get the design or the concept phase and then you have to hand it over to the contractor already which we find quite insane, but yeah it saves money, so normally we always try to insist on staying there until the delivery of the building, and to really go to the site as often as possible and yeah how do you make sure that it's built what you had in mind? There's of course many ways as we discussed before, of course, you go further and further in detail in early stages which is sort of what happens if you work in a BIM model with these workflows and the scripting etc but also to I think, to keep the dialogue also with the manufacturers or before that, we very often, of course, work with local architects. That's a communication again, how do you make sure that what you want is going to be executed and there's many tools as we just said so it's indeed to be more there to even use virtual reality or to have the glasses on to really understand beforehand what's going to happen, but the most prominent thing is to actually be on-site and to really as I showed with Concordia we of course do with all the projects to really be very precise in the selection of color or the real the finishing of material or how it's detailed etc. In any way I can or not so I think that's for me at least that's really important to keep track of and it's the most fun part also.

Yeah, of course, as long as you let's say, report soon enough, what kind of shaping or whatever it is you want to have, then you can also refer back to it and that of course, it's something that you can use in your screening, your monitoring of the building being realized. For instance for the Depot as I said, it's very, it's symmetrical, so in that sense it's easy but still, every layer has a different curvature and again in BIM they're all labeled and they know exactly what the build up of the facade is, they know exactly how they're held up to the facade, what kind of glue is used, what kind of layer of foils, what the coating is, so it's all there, so we also know what the shape should be so in a 3D model, it's there! So they can easily check whether what is built on site is indeed within the margins, just as one example. So yeah I think it's and of course, it's especially this time, if you cannot travel that much, it's also really handy to have these kinds of tools that you can actually check-in, still, you know, not looking at "You see my picture? it's here?" and then you're like "Okay..." because that's what we do as well sometimes, like "It looks okay!" but, of course, you have no clue. To really, you know, almost be there, on-site monitoring even at a distance, I think that is something which is really good to develop much further.

Well I would not really have one I mean, we have one statement for ourselves to be 100% sustainable, but then of course, comes the question: what is sustainable? And what is 100%? How can you reach that? And is everybody, every project, fit for that? So there's many many levels I think we try to address and also from the start of a project and also have a debate with the client on that side, and of course there's certificates and there's levels in that as well but I would say that for some they're still very needed to be able to sell their floors or to be able to find the right tenant and get the right pricing for it, but basically I would say they're very outdated almost so it's good to have them, it's a good starting point, but it doesn't tell the whole story. So, what we tend to do, because sustainability for us is also really in, as you probably know, we for years started off with densification for instance, which for us also is a way of being sustainable, how to indeed create these and I showed some examples I think tonight, how to keep these inner city lives comfortable and social and inclusive, and you know, so the social part for us is very important as well and also the use of land, you know, how to double use your, or triple or whatever, your plot and not just to, you know, spill the space that we have, so these kinds of topics have been, I think, there since the beginning of the office and always trying to make the most compact buildings and to compress, let's say, the amount of program and still keeping it open for public. So that is, of course, not the putting solar panels on the facade, but it's still super sustainable we think, as you think of cities and how you can keep the rest of your planet a little bit open, so these also the green for us is a very important ethics, always looking at the context and then, of course, all the tools that we have at this moment to make it energy saving or even energy producing, thinking of using different types of materials, reusing, yeah that's all topics that we try to address so it's not just a one-liner, but it's been there, so it's hard to describe and the world around changed so we change hopefully just one step ahead, that's what we try! But some of these developments go super fast so it's also very technical so we try to tackle it from different sides, that's basically what we do.

Yeah I can start to be very philosophical about it but actually the real, the main thing is just to have fun, you know, you should know where you want to go, have ambition and of course have a very open mind, otherwise, you're not getting anywhere and look around. I think that's what I try to show with the projects, to really understand what the real issue is and not just to start but really try to understand and dig a little deeper and try to connect things and try to help your client basically, that's because through that you can make a better world in the end for many more people than just the client in making square meters that they can sell. So that's the, I don't know, have fun, that's I think the biggest message to young architects, make it fun, and not just a moneymaker, if you want to be a moneymaker you should find another job I think!