A Billion Dollar Brand/ Influencer Partnerships w/ Revolve Co-Founder Michael Mente & Lewis Howes

I think the one thing for us that's been really key is that it has to just really be authentic and organic. I think if it was a situation where you could spend money and receive the returns, the big guy would always win. The corporate guys would be throwing money everywhere and it would work, but I think for it to work, it really has to be genuine and authentic. The influencer really, in my opinion, really has to be a fan of the brand for it to really work.

Thank you, and thanks for having me. Such an honor to be here. I've learned so much from you from the podcast and books, so it's such a privilege to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, we built up some successes and it worked awesome. So now we're like, okay, what else do we want to do? I think it is the combination of really showing people a genuinely good time. I think when you see the photos, there's just a sense of fun and people are really enjoying themselves. And I believe it's because people really are enjoying themselves that really shows. Of course, the visual imagery is an important part of it. It wouldn't be as exciting mixing in with just like, sure. But having a very beautiful kind of thing, aspirational but still accessible kind of a lifestyle that's genuinely fun. And ultimately, what we sell is a premium aspirational product that's still accessible. Something that you aspire towards and you crave, but also something that's still inclusive that a large portion of the market can really afford. And this type of product is meant for being social in the sense that we sell all apparel categories, but really it's that feeling you get when you put on, whether it's hanging out with your friends or going out to a party, or you're going to a really business event, you put on your nice shirt or jacket and then you just feel good. Or you're even just going to the gym, you're like, nice gym clothes, I'm ready to work. Yeah, and I think that's the kind of feeling of fun and socializing that we try to capture with kind of just a broad marketing. That's what our brand is about.

Yeah. But in this day and age it's easy to actually contact them, whether it's DM or LinkedIn or whatever research you want to do. So it's easy to establish that. But I think it's one, there's a whole range of influencers from super mega to micro and local. They are powerful in their own ways. So I think it's finding, first finding the influencers that truly resonate with the brand. Understanding what your brand is about and then finding the people that really represent that. I think it has to be real. It's not just bigger the better, more numbers the better. Of course that's relevant, but at the same time we all have budgets and we can't just work with the biggest ambassadors. There are plenty of people that I would love to work with, I just feel like it would be financially irresponsible to do so. So finding the influencers, like Kim Kardashian might be way too much. And it's like, you can do it, it's possible, I'm sure a lot of us can do it. Does it make sense? Does she really represent the brand in that right way? Maybe it makes sense for some brands where her personal brand is in complete alignment with the brand. But I think that has to be there. And then just approaching people as genuine fans. The people that we work with, we really respect and admire. There's people that we don't work with because they're not necessarily the type of people that we want to work with. But the people that we really work with are people that we're genuine fans as well. And I think that'll come across as important. What they're doing mirrors and reflects and is aligned with what we're trying to do. And finding those right people. I think that upfrontness of attempting to work and professionalism with that genuineness of like, I'm really a fan of what you do, I think we can do something awesome together. And also thinking long term where it's not just one and done, can you tag me or can we do this, but how can we work together in mutually beneficial ways.

And if the brand alignment is there, if the brand and product or service is aligned with the influencer, then it should be quite clear that sure, both can build together.

Totally. On that level, especially in very scrappy and bootstrapped days, that's exactly how we'd approach things. We definitely can't, you know, we don't have this budget, we don't even have a budget, especially when we first experiment. And I think when we did actually start working with influencers, it was zero budget. It was just like, we can't allocate money to this because it could be completely wasted. So it was like, how do we do it in ways that are effective that will give us a conviction to put money behind it. It was done in a very organic, low budget kind of just person-to-person connection.

Now it's a lot of other people. I think over the past year we may have worked with around five thousand. So it's become a little bit more processed and more structured. But majority, if not all, of the people that we work with that are the most established people and the most powerful people are genuine personal relationships that we've developed over the years. It's like, I know, I just ran into someone and I'm friends with her sister, we will spend time and run together or whatever it may be. And we're friends and have relationships outside.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. It almost seems like there's a thousand new brands every year that come out in fashion.

Definitely.

I think it's dynamic and I think every situation is unique. Like no doubt there are so many brands coming out and it seems like across the fashion industry but across everywhere, everything's so much more accessible. Manufacturing isn't what it was 20 years ago, it's really easier to do, a little bit more commodified. So I think it levels the playing field, which is amazing in many ways. With why we're able to create our own brand so powerfully is that we have competitive advantages that we have a lot of data. We can see that, oh wow, people are really rapidly clicking on this category and we don't have a good selection here, let's go make some stuff. So it's not really like what the designer and the human creative is just, I want to do this. It is, what's the data and opportunity, then layered with someone who can interpret that very well.

Yes. You're doing this the same way as the corporate.

Exactly. And then now this is a more nuanced version of like say with denim where it's like people want a specific type of denim and we knew it. So then we created it and it's been great. But I didn't put that parallel there. But yeah, all we're doing is really just listening to the consumer and trying to understand and give them what they want.

I think the real thing is that this hasn't always been the case, but I think that right now we're in a position where, in times past I always would identify this is a gap that we need to fill. In times past we weren't always good at influencer marketing, so we had to figure this out. Before we had no clue about how to make clothes, so we had to figure it out. And now I feel like we've been able to layer the stacks of different competencies. And I think that now the challenge is making sure they all work together and are able to grow and scale at the same time. It's a different type of challenge, and I think that's why I'm still so excited about everything. Because as soon as you figure something out there's a new challenge. And there's always opportunity for growth. We're blessed with a lot of opportunities.

Yeah, but it's fun because my team is awesome. I think there's a lot of culture, a lot of camaraderie, and there's not a lot of cattiness and infighting and politics. It's like everyone is focused and everyone enjoys working with each other. So it's like a high-functioning sports team. We're all in it together and rolling. So it's challenging but fun.

I think we, I actually just got a report yesterday, so I think 749.

It was like, that's the other benefit, is that the fact that I have been doing this for 14, 15 years, I've had the luxury of time to grow. It didn't have to, it wasn't like overnight the whole world changes or one year later the company explodes and I'm in a totally different space. It's been this steady long journey. So before it was really roll up your sleeves, figure out how to do the process, figure out how to do the work, do a lot of it yourself, and then build the process and get other people to do it and make it scalable. And I've had to do that, my partner and I have had to do that in different areas over time. Where first it was website design and buying, and then later on it became more the planning aspect of things and digital marketing. Then later on it ended up being brand marketing, and later on it ended up being manufacturing clothes. So for me, building the different aspects and companies of the organization took a lot of time. And then now I do feel that the team is good, all the positions I need are there. There's a few things that we're layering in. And now it's just like the orchestra of everyone working together.

Exactly.

I mean, this is pretty, two aspects. But early on, my dad was definitely influential on me. And in a different way. In an Asian kind of household, and it was definitely, I grew up in Malaysia.

I was born in Malaysia but grew up out over here. And I think in the Asian culture that I grew up, it was a little bit more stoic. It was really not show your emotions. So it wasn't really through communication and traditional teaching. My dad wasn't really showing affection and communicating your affection and things like that. And really teaching a specific lesson. But what he really showed me, hands down, was hard work. It was just work ethic. And that was one thing that I knew was a responsibility, and I'm happy to see that role model. Times were tough, well the only job's in Santa Barbara, so you gotta commute to Santa Barbara, right? And then work, and then during that time is tough, you still have to work on the weekends to do work on the weekends. Just to stay, keep level.

So I think that really resonated. I really internalized that, and to this day that really influenced the person I've gone out to be. And I think, actually I don't know if I've ever told him that. I hope he listens and hears that.

I think she really was able to teach me a lesson, but the skill was really listening and really understanding people. I think she is the type of person who will talk a lot, but also always able to develop a lot of relationships with people in terms of just having that empathy and understanding where they're coming from and how you can help people out and why people are acting a certain way and how do you build. So I think those two things together are the blended foundation of why I'm able to grow and succeed.

Well, I think the one thing that very recently I started to focus on is that work ethic aspect was always there and it's there. But it's also like balancing that. It's like you can't be at 10 all the time. And you can't push everyone to be at 10 all the time. We don't want to, I don't think it's capable for us to succeed at the next level by just everyone outworking everyone. In the earlier days you could, I felt like. It was essential, like that was the core competency in the day one, where we're two guys with nothing to do but work all day and all the energy in the world. But now to get to that next level it can't be just like, our teams are committed. When it's time to go, it's go time. And everyone looks back like, we're gonna do this, and there's a really sense of like, we're doing this together. I'm trying to now at this point really minimize those times where everyone has to be buckled down and duke it out and really slug through the challenges. I think now it's really like, what's the elegant simple way for us to accomplish the goal without burning out the team and challenging everyone and having to push everyone to succeed just on that sheer willpower. I think it's going to be, how do we succeed and achieve even greater results but in an elegant, fluid way that's smoother and more enjoyable for all of us. Because if it's not enjoyable, what's the point?

Yeah, yeah. You can't sell yet, right?

I don't know. I think it's a number of different things. I think it's really complex. I think one thing for me is that the people on our team through and through, the people I work with directly are the people that I continue to meet in the organization. There's a culture that resonates and I really enjoy it. I can't imagine not working with these people. And also from a business perspective, we've always been fans of the long term. And I think ultimately when you're focused on the long term, when you're executing in the present, I think that's when the big magical results can happen. I think that was something that my partner and I, from day one. And it's interesting, we were like 22, 23, like, let's build a business we want to own forever. When you want to own it forever, if you ever change your mind it's going to be very valuable. Versus trying to build a business that you're trying to sell. Well, if the people you're trying to sell to aren't interested or if the world changes, I think honestly, that was influenced by us coming into the workforce and the entrepreneurial community in the first recession in 2000, 2001. We were in that world where everyone was trying to build this company to sell it to so-and-so, and it was really kind of a short-sighted kind of play. And if you can't do that, the world changes, then you end up with nothing.

Exactly. You get burnt out, you're bored, or whatever.

Or the potential acquirers end up, which you have no control of, their business may evolve. So with us we always have that long-term mentality. And I think to this day, I think I'm one of the rare ones who says that, like, I think I want to do this forever. I think we're also just so lucky that the opportunities keep coming and coming. And I think there's a wealth of opportunities that we can pursue and it's really our responsibility to stay focused on what we have to do. But I could definitely see myself doing this forever as long as the opportunities for growth are still there.

I think there's so many different ways. I think ultimately understanding what you want to do, because I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with building a business and trying to sell it. Certain types of businesses and opportunities may be ripe for that. And I think that might be really smart in certain zones. So I think really aligning what your goals are with what the market opportunity is and making sure those go together. It could be starting the awesome donut coffee shop that's really awesome and you're into it and you delight your customers. Is that a success to you? Or is it like you have to scale it to be 500 locations? Nothing wrong with either of those, but understanding that and ensuring that the opportunities out there really make sense.

Uh, it's a challenge and I wish I was more prepared here. Well, I think one thing for me that's important is, you know, we're always so metric focused, myself, no doubt, but ultimately the human aspect of things is super important. So it's not just the business that we built and the numbers that we achieve, which is something I think about every day, but it's also who I did it with and how they were uplifted and benefited. I think that's super important to me and to the way we go about business, is that it's all of us doing this together. Everyone who's committed to what we're doing, we're committed to their lives and their happiness. And that's something I'm extremely proud of in our company. So it's like not just what we did, but it's also who did I do it with and how did they benefit.

Can you reframe the question or can you say the question again? Three truths. Three truths or three lessons that you would give back to the world.

The other one, I think this is maybe a little bit newer lesson for me, is that you don't have to sacrifice your personal life and your health for your professional career. And I think that's something that I see a lot of people doing. I've been the guiltiest of it at so many different times. Whether it's not being able to be in a good relationship because it's so secondary to the professional, or sometimes neglecting health because the professional career takes precedence. I think it all goes together. I think there's a harmony when all three of those aspects come together. And that's when a healthier, happier life really comes together. When you're healthy, you have great relationships, and you have a thriving professional career. There's no priorities, it's all one. And I think I learned that one the hard way.

Yeah, definitely.

I think those two cover quite a bit. You can give me a second here. Maybe I'll do like an edit clip. Fast forward 30 minutes.

I think this is somewhat related to the second point. And this is something that I'm trying to put a lot more attention to, is that the hard work and the grind and that effort, there's obviously huge value to that. But at some point that's not the goal. And actually enjoying it is, this is super cliche, but enjoying the work, enjoying everything is more important than achieving it. There's no point of, we build a business that's this big or however many billions of dollars, if I didn't enjoy the process of building it, then it was rather pointless. And super cliche but also challenging to really internalize. That's a personal challenge. This year was a very challenging year in terms of professional challenges. It was a very successful year in terms of the metrics and the goals that we've achieved. But other aspects I think I didn't do as good of a job. I really was a little bit too intense and focused, which detracted from my ability to enjoy it. And looking back, it should have been a more fun year. Looking back I really feel like I wasn't fully present to really enjoy what a great year it was. I look back and remember the hard work and the struggle, which is important, but it should be mixed in with that enjoyment and fun. So that's the goal this year, is to maintain this intensity but also enjoy it much, much more.

It's the balance. In terms of prioritizing and ensuring health, it's working out and eating well, the super fundamental basics. Investing more into personal life. I think it's easy for me to just work and not put as much energy to nurture that aspect of life as a single guy. And really make a little bit better planning. Like I could plan work, I have plans that go out many years, but I'm bad about planning like, how am I gonna enjoy this weekend? Or can I get my friends together to go on a vacation in three months? Those are the things that are always the best moments. If you look back, those are my favorite times, when you're traveling with your friends. But at the same time I don't even put that much energy to make those moments happen. So that's another thing that I'll try to do a lot better.

I'm probably more, you know, Instagram. So at Mente, you can find me there. Drop by, say hello. I'm always excited to hear from everybody. And of course if you're into women's clothing and men's clothing, revolve.com is the main business. And actually we have a designer business, higher end designers, fwrd.com as well, where our men's selection there is really good. You got to check it out.

FWRD.com is the men's stuff. It's men's and women's, but the men's selection is really good over there.

Thank you. For everything, we've all, I have a big group of friends who we like to help each other, and you've done so. Your work, the books and the podcasts, we've all learned so much from. And a lot of the things that I was mentioning, I feel, is because you think about it in a similar way. There's very few sources where I can be inspired, I can learn about health, relationships, and business. There's a lot of business but it's treated separately. But I've learned so many times from you and from my own experience, that the same things that make us weak in our personal life also are the same things that make us weak in our professional life. And integrating those lessons learned is something that I've really started to see as I get older, versus it's usually compartmentalized. I know I see a lot of that from you. I see that from the books. A lot of the challenges with masks, it's in your personal life, it's in your professional life, and different ones. So I've learned so much from you. So honored and happy to be here. Thank you so much.

I think greatness comes from happiness, and happiness comes from making other people happy. And ultimately, being your authentic self and appreciating and being happy with the person you are and the life that you have in front of you.

Thanks. It's been awesome. Thank you so much.