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Greg Heckman
Chief Executive Officer, Bunge Global SA

Bunge Ltd BG CEO Gregory Heckman on Q1 2020 Results

🎥 Apr 29, 2020 📺 Daily Earnings Calls ⏱ 56m
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About Greg Heckman

During Bunge’s Q4 2019 earnings call in February 2020, Heckman said the company expected 2020 earnings per share to be broadly in line with 2019 when excluding notable items. He described the acquisition of the Loders business as a “wonderful opportunity” and stated that the company had delivered on cost targets and fully integrated the team, though he noted that the timing of top-line synergies was not coming as fast as planned. On the Q1 2020 earnings call in April 2020, Heckman stated that the COVID-19 pandemic had made visibility difficult and that 2020 EPS was expected to be lower than earlier forecasts. He said agribusiness was positioned to perform well due to a strong start and hedged soy crush capacity, but that results in edible oils would be lower due to demand interruptions in foodservice and biofuels. Heckman noted that the company had been able to run operations remotely with no major supply chain interruptions, adding, “all of these challenges make you better.” He also said Bunge was still working toward its internal deadlines for portfolio actions and aimed to discuss a clearer go-forward portfolio by late June.

Source: AI-verified profile updated from Greg Heckman's recent appearances. Browse all interviews →

Transcript (62 segments)
O
Operator0:10
Good morning and welcome to the Bunge first quarter 2020 earnings release and conference call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please also note today's event is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to turn the conference call over to Ruth Ann Wiseman. Please go ahead.
R
Ruth Ann Wiseman0:37
Thank you, Robert, and thank you for joining us this morning for our first quarter earnings call. Before we get started, I want to let you know that we have slides to accompany our discussion. These can be found in the Investor section of our website at bunge.com under Investor Presentations. Reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure are posted on our website as well. I'd like to direct you to Slide 2 and remind you that today's presentation includes forward-looking statements that reflect Bunge's current view with respect to future events, financial performance, and industry conditions. These forward-looking statements are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Bunge has provided additional information in its reports on file with the SEC concerning factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in this presentation, and we encourage you to review these factors. On the call this morning are Greg Heckman, Bunge's Chief Executive Officer, and John Nicklisch, Chief Financial Officer. I'll now turn the call over to Greg.
G
Greg Heckman1:42
Thank you, Ruth Ann, and good morning everyone. We know this is a difficult time for all. We appreciate you joining, and we hope all is well with your families and loved ones. Turning to Slide 3, you can see the agenda for today's call, starting with a few comments on how Bunge is addressing COVID-19, followed by an overview of the first quarter. I'll also provide some thoughts on the potential impact of COVID-19 on our business for the rest of the year, and then hand it over to John for more details on our performance. I'll share closing remarks and then we'll open the line for your questions. But before diving into the quarter, I want to take this opportunity to thank our Bunge team for their hard work and for taking on this challenge with camaraderie, poise, and commitment. Our thoughts are with those who have suffered as a result of COVID-19 and with all the heroes on the front lines of this pandemic. I am tremendously proud of our team and their continued level of execution during this time. As a critical participant in global food supply chains, Bunge is without question an essential business, and we're doing our part to ensure that these critical products are getting from farmers to consumers. This is not an easy or straightforward task. Our colleagues around the world are going to work every day and, to put it plainly, showing great grit and getting the job done. Protecting our team, their families, and communities as they perform this work is our top priority. Our global task force is working hard to ensure we have the necessary precautionary measures in place to keep them safe while continuing to serve our customers. On Slide 4, you can see a summary of those measures, which vary by region and facility but essentially include an expansion of our health and safety procedures along with new protocols to support social distancing. We also created dedicated task forces to monitor developments and coordinate efforts to support our central role in the infrastructure of food. We have not experienced any major disruptions to our plants or supply chains, and operations are functioning well. We're also working to provide support to the communities in which we operate, and last month we announced a $2.5 million commitment to support health and hunger causes directly related to the pandemic in these areas. All that said, we remain sharply focused on running the business. Now let's turn to Slide 5 for an overview of the first quarter and the outlook. Our underlying business performed well, and we're seeing the impact of the strength of our new operating model, which is allowing us to quickly adapt to changing market conditions and customer needs. In Agribusiness, we were able to capitalize on several key opportunities, with notably strong performances in softseed crush, China soy processing, and grain origination in Brazil as farmer selling increased with the devaluation of the Brazilian real. Edible Oils produced a strong quarter, benefiting from good demand in an environment of relatively tight vegetable oil supply. The negative direct impacts of COVID-19 were limited in the quarter as lockdowns and restrictions varied by region. COVID-19's impact on the global economy makes visibility difficult, but we expect 2020 EPS to be lower than we forecasted earlier in the year. Agribusiness is positioned to perform well given the strong start to the year and the soy crush capacity we have hedged into the third and fourth quarters. However, results in Edible Oils will be lower due to COVID-19-related demand interruptions in foodservice and biofuels. Also, lower ethanol prices and foreign exchange volatility will materially reduce results in our Sugar and Bioenergy joint venture. Turning to Slide 6, despite COVID-19 and its impact on economies around the world, we're continuing to make progress on optimizing our portfolio. As you may have seen a couple of weeks ago, we reached an agreement to sell 35 U.S. interior elevators to the NGR Corporation for approximately $300 million in proceeds. This strategic effort supports Bunge's global value chain model and retains our strong presence elsewhere in the U.S. grain marketplace. We'll continue to actively participate in global grain trading and distribution, anchored to our Center Gulf and PW port terminals, and continue to support Bunge's U.S. soy crushing, processing, and milling businesses. Not only will this transaction allow us to reduce costs and operate more efficiently, we'll reinvest the proceeds into higher-returning areas of the company and strengthen our balance sheet. I'm extremely proud of the team for executing this deal in this environment and market. Really well done. And with that, I'll hand the call over to John now to walk through the financial results in detail.
J
John Nicklisch6:54
Thanks, Greg, and good morning everyone. You may have seen our announcement a few weeks ago that we have changed our segment reporting to separately disclose Corporate and Other activities from our reportable segments. This change more closely reflects how we manage our business and review financial information, and builds upon our previously stated strategic priorities by providing enhanced visibility to segment performance while also improving the comparability of our segment results and Corporate and Other activities with those of our industry peers. Now let's turn to Slide 7, the earnings highlights. On a reported basis, first quarter earnings per share was a loss of $1.46 compared to income of $0.26 in the first quarter of 2019. Adjusted EPS was a loss of $1.34 in the first quarter versus income of $0.36 in the prior year. Reported results included 12 cents of charges, of which 10 cents related to an adjustment to the 30% redeemable non-controlling interest in our Loders Croklaan JV and 2 cents related to our corporate office move to St. Louis. Total segment earnings before interest and taxes, or EBIT, was a loss of $170 million in the quarter versus EBIT of $151 million in the prior year. On an adjusted basis, total segment EBIT was a loss of $165 million in the quarter versus EBIT of $166 million in the prior year, primarily driven by results in Agribusiness where adjusted EBIT was a loss of $127 million compared to adjusted EBIT of $149 million last year. In total, Agribusiness results in the quarter were impacted by $385 million of mark-to-market losses on forward hedging contracts, of which a majority is expected to reverse over the course of the year. Oilseed average soy processing margins were lower in all regions compared to a strong prior year, with the exception of China which benefited from tight soy meal supply and reduced bean availability. Average softseed processing margins were higher in all regions versus a year ago. As COVID-19 began to spread globally, concerns about soybean meal availability caused global oilseed processing margins to spike toward the end of the quarter. As a result, we incurred approximately $100 million of mark-to-market losses related to forward oilseed crushing contracts. In addition, as vegetable oil values declined during the quarter, we recorded a mark-to-market loss of $195 million on forward hedges held against fixed-price sales to our downstream edible oil customers. As we execute on these contracts in the coming quarters, we expect these timing losses to reverse. As Greg noted, results in our Grain business were primarily driven by origination in Brazil as the pace of farmer selling accelerated in response to an increase in local prices caused by the devaluation of the Brazilian real. Ocean Freight also had a strong quarter, benefiting from excellent execution. However, results were impacted by approximately $90 million in mark-to-market losses, primarily related to forward bunker fuel hedges driven by the decline in global energy prices. These hedges are held against forward fixed-price sales commitments, which we expect to reverse in the coming quarters as we execute on these contracts. In Edible Oils, improved results in North America, Europe, and Argentina were more than offset by lower results in Brazil and Asia. Excluding approximately $20 million of net unfavorable timing differences, $6 million of which will reverse in future periods, results were higher than prior year. Recall that in the fourth quarter of 2019, we benefited from $13 million of favorable timing differences which reversed during Q1. While the COVID impact was relatively limited to the segment in total, as lockdowns and restrictions varied by region, we started to see reduced demand from both foodservice and biodiesel channels toward the latter part of the quarter. We expect to see a more pronounced negative impact in Edible Oils in the second quarter. In Milling, improved performance in Brazil, which benefited from higher volumes from food processors, was more than offset by lower results in North America due to a decrease in U.S. margins and lower corn yields. In Sugar and Bioenergy, segment results for this quarter reflect our share of earnings in our 50/50 joint venture with BP that we formed in December 2019. By contrast, first quarter results in 2019 reflect our 100% ownership of the Brazilian sugar and bioenergy operations. Additionally, results of the joint venture are reported on a one-month lag. The $50 million loss in the quarter reflects the seasonally slow intercrop period where the business is selling inventory from the previous season, as well as approximately $25 million of foreign exchange translation loss on U.S. dollar-denominated debt at the joint venture through the depreciation of the Brazilian real during the quarter. With the continued devaluation of the Brazilian real during the second quarter, we expect JV results to be further negatively impacted by foreign exchange translation losses, unless the Brazilian real were to recover a large portion of its recent decline. In Fertilizer, higher segment results reflected improved performance in our Argentinian operation, which benefited from higher margins more than offsetting lower volume. For the quarter, we recognized an income tax benefit of $55 million. Based on our current outlook, we expect our full-year effective tax rate to be toward the upper end of our 19% to 23% guided range. Interest expense was up slightly during the quarter compared to last year due to interest charged on settlement of an arbitration matter in Brazil as well as foreign currency borrowings in certain countries where interest rates were high. However, the incremental higher borrowing costs were fully offset in gross margin from currency hedges on underlying working capital being funded with those borrowings. We continue to expect full-year net interest of approximately $230 million. Let's turn to Slide 8, cash flow highlights. Due to the approximate $410 million mark-to-market losses incurred during the first quarter, our trailing 12-month adjusted funds from operations was considerably down from where we ended 2019. Excluding both 2019 and the trailing 12-months for these mark-to-market timing differences, results would be comparable. As shown in the chart on the right, as you can see on Slide 9, at the end of the first quarter, approximately 90% of our debt was used to finance readily marketable inventories. Our net debt excluding readily marketable inventories was approximately $500 million. Turning to Slide 10, we have committed working capital facilities of approximately $4.3 billion, all of which was available at the end of the quarter, and we had a cash balance of $193 million. Moving to Slide 11, in our summary of capital allocation, as I discussed earlier, Q1 adjusted funds from operations is distorted through the impact of large mark-to-market losses on forward hedges that will reverse during the course of the year. CapEx spending was $55 million, of which $38 million was invested in maintenance and environmental, health, and safety standards. We paid $79 million in dividends to shareholders. Please turn to Slide 12 and our return on invested capital. Our trailing four-quarter average adjusted return on invested capital was 6.5%, up approximately one percentage point from the prior year. With that, I'll turn things back over to Greg for some closing comments.
G
Greg Heckman14:56
Thanks, John. I know I'm not the first one to say this, but the fact that we're operating at a time of unprecedented volatility, complexity, and uncertainty. As John and I mentioned, we expect to see a greater impact from COVID-19 on our business in the second quarter, primarily in our Edible Oils business. However, the work we've done to improve our operations, to streamline our portfolio, and hone our approach to risk management has allowed us to remain nimble and adapt to the evolving business and operational demands. We've stayed very focused. We've accomplished a great deal despite the environment, from continuing to invest in technology and drive our strategic initiatives to evolving our innovation processes to the current reality of working remotely. I remain impressed by the team's steadfast commitment to the execution of our priorities, especially in the face of these challenging times. Given the evolution of the COVID-19 situation, we have decided to postpone our full Investor Day to a later date, but we will hold a virtual investor event in June where John and I will provide an update on our progress and the impact of our key initiatives to our operating model. We'll be providing more details in the coming weeks. And with that, we'll open the call to your questions.
O
Operator16:15
Ladies and gentlemen, at this time we'll begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, please press the star and then one on your touch-tone telephone. To withdraw your questions, you may press star and two. We do ask you to please pick up the handset before pressing the numbers to ensure the best sound quality. Once again, that is star and then one to ask a question. We'll pause momentarily to assemble the roster. Our first question today comes from Vincent from Bank of Montreal. Please go ahead with your question.
V
Vincent16:55
Yeah, just a couple of questions. One is, does COVID-19 affect Bunge's earnings power beyond 2020? And then what will you be doing with the $300 million of proceeds? And my last question would be, when I think about foodservice, it seems like it's starting to kind of come back a little bit. Is that in your expectations for the Edible Oils business, or did you kind of include the Edible Oils business at the time of the press release? I'll leave it there.
G
Greg Heckman17:37
Okay, well I'll leave the proceeds to John, but let me work backwards on the Edible Oils and the outlook. No, we're receiving information as everyone is, daily, and even some, I guess to use a term, we're hearing before green shoots of demand coming back even this week. So our original outlook, of course, when we put it together was with the best information we had at the time, which is continuing to move quickly as the states open back up. As far as COVID-19 on 2021, we're grappling with Q2 and what effects it's going to have in Q2, but I think the key tenets that we're really pleased with are the changes we've made to the operating model and how the team is able to stay connected with the commercial and the industrial folks and responding to the challenges our customers have. We're able to adapt to this situation. So we'll continue to improve the business and be in position to handle whatever challenges are in front of us.
J
John Nicklisch18:56
And then John on the proceeds. Yeah, so Greg mentioned in his remarks we have gross proceeds of $300 million coming from the green assets. That's not expected to be closed until late Q4, probably early Q1 of next year, just given regulatory timing. But at this point, we don't have any specific plans other than initially we'll reduce any revolver debt that we have outstanding, and then we will look at what our alternatives are. We have a bond coming due in November, and depending on timing of this and how we feel about capital markets at the time and our liquidity, we may very well just pay that off at the time. We'll keep an eye on markets between now and then and determine if refinancing makes sense. But other than that, we will put it basically back at the top of the house and back in our capital allocation to see what alternatives are. But nothing specific right now.
V
Vincent19:54
Okay, just to be clear, as you assess over the next few years, do you think that there could either be positive or negative residual effects, or do you think that once it settles down, you will emerge similar, better, or worse? Is there a way to just kind of think about that in terms of your earnings power or your return on invested capital? Will you have to reconfigure how you're thinking about your return on invested capital? I will really leave it there.
G
Greg Heckman20:22
Yeah, John, chime in as well. Interesting question. I believe any time you're challenged, I don't think six months ago we would have thought you could run an operation this big and this complex remotely. And I will say the team's done a phenomenal job as we've continued to run the business with no major interruptions to our supply chain or serving customers. So all of these challenges make you better. We continue to focus on all our initiatives and continue doing the things that we wanted to do to improve the business for 2021. And I will say, during this time of stress for the globe and for everyone, capital spending has slowed down for everyone. And so I think overall, capacities probably end up tighter as things improve and as we see demand come back. And I think we're in a great position with the changes we've made to the portfolio, the operating model, and having the global footprint and the flexibility to respond as we see things improve. So I sure don't see it as a negative. I think it's flat to a positive.
J
John Nicklisch21:40
No, I think I'd agree with that.
O
Operator21:49
Our next question comes from Adam Samuelson from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead with your question.
A
Adam Samuelson21:54
Yes, thanks. Good morning, everyone. Just trying to think concisely and quantify the change in outlook. Is there any way to frame the magnitude of impact in Edible Oils and especially in Sugar relative to what you thought previously in February? Well, in Agribusiness, no change. Yeah, it's happening a little differently and in a more challenging way than we thought, but in our biggest business, we're really unchanged and think we'll be able to deliver the same as our earlier outlook.
G
Greg Heckman22:27
On the edible oil side, that really is going to depend on the recovery and the shape of the recovery and how quickly that is. At this point, we've used the best information that we have looking at the forward curves and we'll continue to update you as we go forward on that. I will say it looked about as dark as it could at the beginning of the month, and things have started to improve just in the last six business days with some orders and with some of the opening up. So it really moved quickly on the way down as demand was cut, and now the key will be how demand comes back, which will definitely be more gradual. And then on the Sugar and Bioenergy, again, we're really pleased with our partner. The team's executing very well down there on the synergies and getting the business in the best shape it can be. From an overall industry and economics, of course, with the COVID-19 impacts on demand and the overall outlook on energy prices with what's happened in crude oil, I think we're as good a shape as anyone in the industry. We know it will be lower, but it's not clear. There's some talk now with maybe some aid for the industry, but it's all too early to tell any impact on that as well.
A
Adam Samuelson24:17
Okay. And then just thinking about the portfolio, and congratulations on getting the U.S. grain elevator announcement done. How much is left? I mean, it's $300 million of proceeds on that transaction. Is that the invested capital you have net, or is there additional working capital release that comes upon closing? And then just how much is left in terms of portfolio actions from where we are today?
G
Greg Heckman24:50
I'll take the portfolio actions, and then I'll let John talk to the numbers on the green assets. On the portfolio actions, we continue to try to work against the internal deadlines we gave ourselves of having everything substantially done, or at least to a point where we could talk about it at Investor Day, so we could give you a clearer look at kind of our go-forward portfolio in late June. Even though there have been some things to slow people down here with COVID-19, we've still got dedicated teams working on all of those deals. We'll probably have one left of size and two or three that are smaller and cleanup. But our goal is to try to still be in position to talk about that. And then we move on to the continuous improvement, which is continuing to challenge the lowest-returning parts of our portfolio and improving them or figuring out if they need to be out of the portfolio. And that'll never stop. As John and I've talked about, this isn't something you set and forget. It's something you do every day, every month, every quarter. So as you see, it'll be an ongoing process.
J
John Nicklisch26:04
And then I'll expand on the numbers. In terms of the green assets and how to think about it best, the capital, as you can imagine, we held these elevators for quite a long period of time. So the book value, the carrying value of those is really quite low, pretty small percentage of the total proceeds. So we will be reporting a gain on the sale, but probably as importantly, we didn't carry a lot of working capital in these elevators. Between farmer payables, deferred margin, farmer payables on average, and the fact that they basically sourced products for our pipeline, we didn't carry a lot of working capital there. They were really flow-through elevators for us primarily. So we don't expect a significant impact on invested capital. The real benefit is taking the proceeds and paying off debt initially and taking some of the costs now.
A
Adam Samuelson26:52
Got it. That's a helpful color. I'll pass it on. Thank you.
O
Operator27:01
Our next question comes from Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead with your question.
V
Vincent Andrews27:07
Thanks, and good morning, everyone. I'm just curious if you could speak to the different hedges. You clearly use the word majority in terms of recouping in the balance of the year. Could you kind of put some parameters around majority and then just help us understand what risk is associated with the recovery of those hedges?
J
John Nicklisch27:27
Sure. Let me walk through the pieces, Vince, because it is pretty comprehensive. So overall, we had, as I mentioned, about $385 million in the Agribusiness, a total of $410 million altogether across the business. The $100 million that we mentioned associated with our soy processing and oilseed processing, that really will largely execute over the balance of this year. It was representative of coming into the quarter, into Q1, largely covered, and then we had mentioned at the end of the year, I think on our year-end call, that we came into the first quarter fairly heavily covered. And so as the market moved at the end of the quarter, we recorded that $100 million and that'll largely unwind, really a big chunk of it in Q2, as you think about where we were booked out, and then beyond, most all of that is expected to come through here in the fiscal year. $195 million associated with hedging our oil pipeline, our veggie oil pipeline into our downstream edible oil customers, a little bit longer time period does that flow through, but again, it's the majority of that to execute during the year. Really not necessarily any real risk in whether or not those execute, it's just timing. And then the other $20 million, we had mentioned the $90 million on Ocean Freight, again, vast majority of that will clear out this year as we execute on the underlying contracts. And then we had mentioned on the remaining $20 on Edible Oils, $13 of that was really a carryover of income we took last year, so we have a small $6 million carryout. So we really expect that to roll out, again, a vast majority by the end of the year. But with the market moves we saw in April, a big chunk of our mark-to-market that we recognized in March, as you can imagine, has been affected already just given the decline in processing margins in April. But we feel confident that it's just execution to get most of this cleared off by the end of the year.
V
Vincent Andrews29:40
Okay, very good. And if I could just ask on the Loders Croklaan business, have you had time to go back and see how that business performed in a recession? As I suspect, even if COVID subsides later this year, we're still going to be in recessionary conditions well into next year.
G
Greg Heckman30:00
Well, I don't know that we've had it long enough to do the analysis versus that, as well as the changes that we've continued to make to bring along not only the Loders Croklaan portfolio but the combined legacy Bunge portfolio of products and services together with customers. What we are seeing, of course, in some of those areas where people are staying at home and eating different things, we're seeing demand be the same or higher. In some areas, of course, where you're in foodservice, that's where the demand has really been hurt across the entire fats and oils portfolio. I will say, from a total customer outlook, we had good momentum the past couple of years and grown our share of wallet with the products, the value-added products we're offering them, the breadth of the portfolio, and really changing the way that we've worked with people around innovation. I will say, since COVID, that has all accelerated. I think customers really appreciate the breadth of the portfolio, they've appreciated our reliability, they've appreciated our ability to solve problems and adapt, and continue to do some innovation from a distance. And what we're seeing through that is changing the nature of these relationships more quickly on the trust side, going from less transactional to more partnership, to bringing more products to them. So one of the net positives, I think, of the direction we were going with customers and the changes we were making, it's actually accelerated that. And so some of the positive I think will be the strengths of the customer relationships coming out the other side of this as the demand improves.
V
Vincent Andrews31:55
Okay, very good. Thanks very much.
G
Greg Heckman31:59
You bet.
O
Operator32:04
Our next question comes from Ben Bienvenue from Stifel. Please go ahead with your question.
B
Ben Bienvenue32:08
Yep, thanks. Good morning, everybody. Only one, I wanted to ask on Sugar and Bioenergy. It sounded like Greg, your commentary was that things were good, and then John, that you could be a little bit worse than Q1, recognizing you probably have somewhat limited visibility and it's dependent on the recovery of demand. How representative of the year do you think the first half looks, and then what can you do operationally with BP to mitigate these losses?
G
Greg Heckman32:47
Yeah, let me start and then John can finish. Look, what we've done with BP is our combined teams have been down there, they're exceeding the cost synergies, they're executing very well on the plan. So we've got a stronger business with two great partners. We're coming out of the seasonally slow intercrop period. From an overall, as we get started on the crop, from a business and how it's operating, how the team's working together, we'll be in position to get our share of the opportunity. The external factors, that is the one that will be the tough one to see how that plays out. And as we talk, you've got the underlying economics and then you've got if there ends up being any aid to the industry. But I think we're trying to be on the front edge of that.
J
John Nicklisch33:45
And then specifically, a couple things. One is, as we mentioned in the remarks, we're reporting on a one-month lag, so we have pretty good visibility into March, what happened in March, and that's the basis for our comments regarding Q2. As we saw continued appreciation, in fact most of the real appreciation in Q1 occurred in March, and so that's going to be reflective of Q2. And a big part of that will be additional impact on the translation losses on the U.S. dollar-denominated debt. This business is a combination of USD and real-denominated business. The team was working on hedging that U.S. dollar debt. It's just been a difficult market environment, as you can imagine, to get something like that done in Brazil. But they're continuing to work on that. We believe it probably makes sense to hedge part of that debt, just given the fact that part of the business is based on the underlying real and part of it's USD. So that's going to be partly a headwind. And I think just some of the carryover kind of in Q1 and Q2, but I would say largely I don't necessarily think that's indicative of the full year.
B
Ben Bienvenue34:58
Okay, great. I wanted to ask on the mark-to-market impacts. In respect to the rating agencies, how do the rating agencies account for that? Do they pull out those mark-to-market impacts when assessing your ratings?
J
John Nicklisch35:15
Yes, they do have a good understanding of those. And so we take the time to explain those, and I would say that our feedback this week from the rating agencies, as we talked to them ahead of time, they understood that impact based on what has happened with the market and the volatility and the crush margins and veggie oil markets. So they understand it. They're used to that conversation with us, and they understand it's just timing and not necessarily cash-related.
B
Ben Bienvenue35:45
Okay, great. That's good.
O
Operator35:54
Our next question comes from Tom Simonetti from JP Morgan. Please go ahead with your question.
T
Tom Simonetti36:01
Thanks. Good morning. Could you expand on what is sustaining the Agribusiness outlook given where forward crush margins are today?
G
Greg Heckman36:13
Sure. From an outlook, what we're seeing is we do have a fair amount of crush hedged into Q3 and some into Q4. The kind of key factors, if you think about it from an overall, how we're thinking about the flags or the puts and takes, on the risk side, you know, it's COVID. If it continues to grow and dampen oil demand and biofuel demand, it takes longer before we see the recovery. The other risk is if ASF would return to China in a big way or spread somewhere, and if we got some trade disruptions again, that can cause a lot of volatility and frankly make it more difficult for customers and just managing margins overall. And then if Argentinian crush increased significantly, that can be tough on global margins. The other side of that, we based our outlook on the curves without making any topside adjustments, but the other side of that coin is you've got reductions in ethanol run, which of course reduces the amount of DDGS. With wheat being priced globally right now, there should be less wheat fed. Both of those are good for soybean meal inclusion in the feed rations, so that helps the demand side there. And then currently, Argentina, the farmer really did some selling early when they were worried about the tax, but now the farmer has really stopped selling. And just the overall difficulties there, we don't see that changing. That probably limits Argentina's run time, and then their competitiveness is also hurt right now at higher freight cost because of the low water in the Parana River, and that looks like that's going to persist for a while. And generally when Argentina is lower on volume, that's better for our global crush margins. And then the other thing we see, foodservice and biodiesel demand gradually improving, and if we saw meat exports to China, that of course would help protein prices to recover and offset some of the risk on the lower animal numbers that we've seen kind of in tandem with this quick cutback in foodservice demand.
T
Tom Simonetti39:04
That's helpful. Thank you. And could you maybe just provide some more color on the foodservice exposure by region, and maybe just some more detail on why Brazil was so weak in the first quarter?
G
Greg Heckman39:22
Yep. Foodservice, if you look, we're of course more heavily indexed to North America, the U.S. and Canada, and to the larger QSRs, which quite frankly they have fared better through this and we probably expect them to recover more quickly. If you think about geographically, we saw this happening, China first, and Europe, and then it's moving east to west in the U.S. and arriving in South America last. So as we start to see the recovery in China, of course we're watching that very closely. Brazil, generally when we get the big appreciation in the real, that is good for Agribusiness, which of course is the bigger part of our business, but that does provide some headwinds on the food side of the business. And I think that's what we were seeing down there.
T
Tom Simonetti40:24
That's great. Thank you.
G
Greg Heckman40:29
You bet.
O
Operator40:34
Our next question comes from Heather Jones from Heather James Research. Please go ahead with your question.
H
Heather Jones40:37
Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. So I wanted to ask just a real quick detail question. Did the elevators you sold, did they generate any meaningful positive EBIT?
J
John Nicklisch40:50
Not really, no. Just minimal.
H
Heather Jones40:54
Okay. And then just going into Edible Oils, and I fully appreciate the lack of visibility, but just to give us some sense of, I mean, you mentioned at the end of April it was about as dark as could be, and now you're seeing green shoots. Could you give us a sense of, I mean, are we looking at Edible Oils going back to Q2 2018 levels when it made roughly $10 million? I mean, could it be a loss? If you could just give us a sense of the range of outcomes for Q2.
G
Greg Heckman41:35
Hey, yeah, you know, I think it's too early. We saw in late March, early April, right, the U.S. down a combined 40%, and the full-service restaurants were off 70%. So how this opens and comes back, if we have any reinfection rates, reclosing, it could really change that. We're trying to understand what's the restocking versus the demand. So look, we're seeing some positive signs and we're seeing some orders pick up. It's way too early to declare any victory.
J
John Nicklisch42:18
Yeah, I would just say, though, I don't think we're anticipating any kind of a negative result out of Oils in Q2.
H
Heather Jones42:32
Okay, perfect. Then I want to talk about animal protein production around the world. So there are signs, not just anecdotes, but the data showing that there's some liquidation efforts underway in broilers, and a lot of anecdotes say the same thing that's going on on the hog side. And it seems like fortunes for the protein producers in South America have started to get much more difficult. So I wonder if you could walk us through what your anticipation is for meal demand in the early part of the year and then how you see that evolving in late 2020 going into 2021. I hope that question makes sense.
G
Greg Heckman43:26
Yeah, let me take a cut. If I don't hit the mark, you can redirect. No doubt, as hard as foodservice came off, we're seeing reductions in poultry here in the U.S. It is coming off a high base in 2020, and I think everyone's trying to figure out how quickly it'll come down and as we restart, does that start to send a signal where it stabilizes. There's not good data, of course, on the hogs, but definitely a reduction there as well. And I think that's also related to when do we start to see some demand come back out of the industry, where does it stabilize, or do we see exports of protein to China, which helps the pricing. So as that's down a little bit, I think that's where we were looking at some of the offsets of higher wheat feeding and less DDGS around, so that inclusion rates offset some of the lower animal numbers. The other, if you just look at the FPS and DSAs, we ran hard here so far this year on our crush rates. Margins were good. We also were uncomfortable having third parties in our facilities doing maintenance, so things that we could push back around maintenance we did and ran hard. We're now starting to do those projects. So that alone will bring crush down a little bit from a supply side. And then as we said last year, we're managing margins. So we'll run for margin and we'll run the crush to meet demand. But even in the U.S. here, we probably between maintenance and adjusting, we've cut crush almost 10%. And then the rest of the world on the animals, China definitely saw birds up and then seeing chicken up. And in Brazil, chicken was only up slightly with the numbers we were seeing, but pork was up. And of course, COVID just arriving to South America, so we're going to have to all watch that closely.
H
Heather Jones45:57
And how would you characterize the industry in Brazil? So with the decline they're seeing in demand there because of COVID, if protein producers need to scale back, I know the U.S. is the most rational, but is the industry down there relatively rational? Would we see a pullback in crush there, do you think?
G
Greg Heckman46:23
Well, we're the largest down there. And it's always a trade-off. If it doesn't make sense to crush, we'll export the beans. So we're running this machine for the best returns and the highest profit.
H
Heather Jones46:43
Thank you so much.
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Operator46:50
Once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one. Our next question comes from Robert Moskow from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead with your question.
R
Robert Moskow46:57
All my questions have been answered, but one follow-up on the debt for the Sugar JV. You said it was complex or difficult to fully hedge the currency out of it. Can you explain a little bit why? If you just had a futures contract that was short the real, wouldn't that have hedged out that currency exposure, or has it just not worked that way?
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John Nicklisch47:25
Well, yeah, the team was working on this really kind of methodically after the close of the transaction, and they had it on the slate to actually hedge out about half of the debt. And frankly, they just got caught with COVID. They were working with a number of banks down there to do the hedge transaction. It just got cost prohibitive, really, is the issue. The banks, the markets down there were probably, I'll say, more reactive than they were here in terms of the impact of COVID and the financial markets down there. They were in a bit more disarray, and it just became cost prohibitive and difficult to get it done. So they're continuing to work on it. I think we're optimistic we'll get it done. Timing hasn't been great, but the team is focused on it as well as executing the underlying business. So we do expect to be able to get something done here, hopefully this quarter.
R
Robert Moskow48:21
Okay. So then maybe, and maybe you've mentioned this already, but just in terms of FX exposure, how should I look at it from a forecasting perspective for the segment? Is it if the currency stays the same, what kind of a hit should I expect in Q2?
J
John Nicklisch48:39
Well, if the currency stays the same now, I think you'll see a similar impact in Q2 as we saw in Q1. Again, we closed March around 5.2, I think, on the real, and that was a comparable uptick to what we saw in January and February. So I would expect a similar impact on the debt side, on the translation loss. In terms of the underlying business, it's going to depend on a lot of things because it is the ethanol-sugar portion that is dollar business, and so that's going to depend on a number of other factors, not just the currency exchange rate. But on the translation side, I think for Q2, I would expect something similar, absent a big change from here. Q3, really no way to predict that at this point.
R
Robert Moskow49:31
So this is a big swing versus expectations at the start of the year. You also feel that overall EPS, you expect to be lower than what you thought at the start of the year. To what extent can we say that that's related to the sugar business versus the core business?
J
John Nicklisch49:55
Yeah, I would say probably the biggest delta we've had from our initial forecast is sugar. Greg mentioned a little bit of weakness on the edible oil side. We feel good about agribusiness. But sugar is the biggest delta for sure. And we're supporting the team down there to try to see what we can do. But we've got a good team down there. It's just a tough environment right now for that business. BP is committed, we're committed to it. We're having a lot of dialogue with the team and feel confident we've got the right team running it. It's just a tough environment. But that is definitely the biggest move right now.
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Greg Heckman50:33
Yeah, just to reiterate, on the Agribusiness we still see the likelihood of meeting our original outlook. On Edible Oils, of course with what's happened here with COVID and foodservice, that'll be off some, and it just depends how quick the recovery is, how much that's off. And the big delta, John said it, is Sugar and Bioenergy. There's a lot to play out there. We just come out of intercropping and seeing how things shake out, but the team is doing a good job. We've got the right team, we've got the right partner, and we'll keep you updated.
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Robert Moskow51:12
Okay, thank you.
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Operator51:24
And ladies and gentlemen, at this time, showing no additional questions, I'd like to turn the conference call back over to management for any closing remarks.
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Ruth Ann Wiseman51:28
Thank you very much for joining the call today. I'm happy to assist with any follow-up questions you have. And with that, ladies and gentlemen, we'll conclude today's conference call. We do thank you for joining today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines.