Ep 45 | From Sales Representative to Director of the Board, with Ayano "Sena" Senaha

Hi Chris, thank you for having me.

I'm good. I am honored to join you today, and I am a little nervous as you know, but I'm good. How are you?

Sure. Currently, I am a Chief HR Officer, Chief Risk Management Officer, Chief in many things, and frankly, it's too long and too confusing to everybody, including myself. So, the board decided to call me COO from April 1st.

It was a small startup when it all started. So, our founder, Mr. Zoi, when he was attending the University of Tokyo, he saw that it was very difficult for students to find available jobs. The information about jobs, because at that time, it was in the 1950s, so the information about the jobs was all very scattered. Sometimes they were on the bulletin boards of the career centers, or many times they needed to rely on personal referrals from professors or family members. From different angles, the male students who were going to great universities got invitations from many of those great companies, and yet, on the contrary, the female students who were going to universities in suburban areas or lower areas of Japan didn't get any invitations from those companies. So, the job search process was not transparent and wasn't fair. The founder saw some potential in that whole situation and decided to gather all the information about open roles onto a magazine. It was actually a campus magazine that he started. He then started talking to those companies to put advertisements on that magazine, and it was a great success. When he graduated, instead of going to work for a company, he decided to start his own, which later became Recruit. His first product was all about job listings all across Japan, and he put that in the magazine so that everybody could have access to that information. And that was how it all started.

One of my favorite stories in the earlier days of Recruit is this magazine called, maybe if somebody who is in Japan is listening to this, they would know what I'm talking about. That magazine was published in 1980, and it was solely focused on female professionals who were looking for better opportunities. Now, it sounds just normal, but to put it into context, it was 1980, and it was like five or six years before the Employment Opportunity Parity Act was enforced here in Japan. At that time, the norm in society was men work, women assist men, and when women get married or settle down, they usually quit and become stay-at-home moms. That was the norm in 1980. When we published that magazine, it shocked society because it was entirely for female professionals looking for better opportunities. That's one of my favorite stories, but I guess it illustrates what we are as a company. We always have that question like, 'Is it normal? Isn't there a better way?' That genuine question of an employee then became a product, and we questioned society by producing those products. That's from when the company was founded in 1960, and this magazine was in 1980. So, it's always very close to our core that we question what's the norm in society by producing new products.

We've been constantly reaching beyond boundaries. How can we do better and propose better solutions to society? It's always with us. Throughout the past 60 years, three points summarize our history. The first component is expansion from the HR arena to different verticals—housing, travel booking, restaurant booking, many different verticals. That's the first element. The second element is moving from paper-based magazines and businesses into online digital. The third element is global expansion. Just looking back ten years, say 2010, our revenue from outside Japan was less than 5%, so it was tiny. Currently, it's almost 50-50, the revenue split between Japan and non-Japan. That's how rapidly we changed and evolved, and that's what we are—always changing, always evolving.

We have three values that we hold dear: Wow the World, Bet on Passion, and Prioritize Social Value. Those are the core values. Zooming in on Bet on Passion, it has two dimensions. The first is how we develop our businesses. All of our businesses, at least here in Japan, had its foundation in one employee asking a question like, 'Why are we doing this? Can we do this a better way? What if that?' That genuine question about social norms is usually the foundation of a business line. So, Bet on Passion in business development means betting on the ideas of employees. The second element is about career development itself. It's really about the ideas that people have, different ideas, and the conflict of those ideas. Having that conflict and somehow turning one idea into something great and realizing it into a business that we currently have. So, when people are passionate about something they're doing, that's when they shine, that's when they truly perform. We believe that as a management team, betting on passion is the best bet we can make. That's what we are.

The easy one for you guys is how Recruit met Indeed. There was a guy—I shouldn't say a guy—his name is Deco, maybe some of you know him, he's a former CEO of Indeed and he's going to be CEO for the whole group soon. He was in Indonesia, and at that time, he was tasked to look for opportunities to acquire companies in the trouble booking business because he had successfully transformed a travel booking magazine into an online booking business. He was in Jakarta, and he saw so many hitchhikers, professional hitchhikers, many of them female, having their kids in their arms, hitchhiking. He asked those ladies what they were doing, and they explained that because of bad commuting time and traffic, every driver needed to have somebody in their car to get into a certain area of the city at a certain time of day. So, those hitchhikers were hitchhiking to be in the car of a complete stranger so that driver could go into that area, and then the hitchhikers needed to get off and walk all the way back and hitchhike again. He asked, 'Isn't there a better way to get a better job?' Many said they didn't have anything else. That's the moment he thought, before building a great trouble booking business, we need to build something for better job search. He shifted his focus entirely. He wasn't the CEO; he was an executive tasked to do something different, but he saw that problem and decided to shift focus. Coming back to Tokyo, he proposed many plans and got many no's, but ultimately, the company supported him, and that's how he started meeting companies in the online arena, and then ultimately met Indeed. The whole point is that a guy decided the priority needed to be shifted, and the company shifted with it, making that priority number one. That's the Bet on Passion in the true sense.

Family and my close friends still can't believe the title I have in a company of this size. I am grateful that Recruit doesn't give any BS about labels, age, gender, everything—it doesn't really matter as long as you're capable, you're passionate. So, that's the first thing. Many people bet on me. There were many turning points, and I usually had someone who saw something in me, but the first one was actually at the interview. As a new graduate, I was at the interview with Recruit, and the company asked those questions: 'What do you want to do in your life? How do you see the company?' I answered that I wanted to work for three years and then quit to be a stay-at-home mom, supporting my husband. That's what I said at the interview. Now I realize that's not what you usually say at an interview, but at that time, I didn't know. Jokes aside, I knew the interviewers were pros, so if I lied, they would see through it. So I thought the best way was to be honest, and I was honest. They hired me anyway. That was the first time. The second time was when I was assigned to the Corporate Planning Office, right underneath the CEO and CTO. I was a new graduate, so I was straight in from university. Nobody in my age zone was on that floor when I started. It was fun, sexy, and great, and I performed well, but in two years, I felt like I wanted to move to something different. I wanted to do something different, so I asked my boss to find me somewhere else. He asked why I wanted to move since it was a rare opportunity, and I was performing and seemed to have a good time. I said that while the planning and strategy sounded great for the long term, I wanted to feel the dynamic day-to-day of users and clients and making money—actual business. So, I asked to be assigned somewhere else. He said he could place me anywhere I wanted, and I told him he was my boss with more experience, so he should decide where I could grow fastest and what was best for me. I'd do my best wherever he chose. That's how I was assigned to sales, which I had a great time. That was the second time, and it goes on—those moments in my career where I expressed myself, and the organization responded. Those are the stories of my career.

It was when I was in my late 20s, 27 or so. I raised my hand again and was assigned to be in London. That was a company we had just acquired, right after acquisition—a staffing firm in London with over 250 employees and revenue around 300-350 million. The job opening was on an internal platform that anybody could apply for as long as you were qualified. The guidelines had four or five things like management experience, a certain level of English, experience in staffing business, or financial expertise. I had none of those; I wasn't the best-fit candidate. But the boss at the time somehow saw something in me and chose me over all those qualified candidates. He placed me in London, which was my first time entering that country. My job was to turn the company around because it wasn't doing great. I was the only one sent from the parent company, and throughout the years I spent in London, I was the only Japanese representative. It was tough. From their point of view, they were acquired by a company they'd never heard of, and now this new parent company sent a 20-something young lady who didn't seem to know about the country or business. They thought they'd treat me nicely as a guest and send me back. The first four months were really tough. I hit a low point where I almost gave up. That was a Friday afternoon, appraisal time. My boss, an English man who is now a good friend but was then an enemy because I was the one pointing out what wasn't working, gave me the appraisal. He wrote something like, 'Senaha is a great talent in Recruit Group, but we need to think about where to find her next.' It was a polite way of saying they didn't need me, so take her back. I felt it was unfair, the setup itself was unfair. I had proposed many ideas, but they weren't accepted, and this boss who hated me was giving the appraisal. I felt helpless. It was Friday afternoon, and I went home. I was married, left my husband in Tokyo, and was alone and lonely in London. I cried and cried, that ugly cry, and couldn't eat or think, considering going back. Then Saturday morning, I was hungry, so I went out. When I opened the door, sunlight was shining on me. Although I felt emotional pain, my body functioned fine—I was hungry, and people were having a good time because it was a beautiful Saturday. I realized life is beautiful. Let's face it, the pain I'm feeling is small. Why am I so upset? Let's break it down. I faced the fact that I wasn't fully ready, not capable to do the role professionally. That's the hard truth I needed to face. I had to stop complaining about the setup or blaming others because this is what I chose, knowing I wasn't fully ready. From that moment on, I focused on what I could do better and differently, and that's how I started to become a member of the team. We had a great adventure afterwards, but that's the lowest point. Raising your hand is important, but you will hit rock bottom because you're not fully ready, and it's okay. You can change your actions, and that can change other people's reactions.

Right. After that, I changed my actions, and then reactions changed. Within 12 months from that rock-bottom Saturday morning, the boss who gave me that appraisal appointed me as his successor. So, I became Managing Director's Lair, and we had a great journey afterwards. But yes, this is very important. It's interesting because coming back from that assignment, many people, especially in Japan, ask me how it must be great to have those opportunities and success. It's not about that success; it's about those struggles that I learned from. That's almost a life-defining moment for me—to face the fact that I'm not perfect. Those are the ones that changed me dramatically. But yes, all the great stuff happened later on.

Two things. People always say three things, but I cannot really remember three things; I always go to two things. The first one: do not wait until you're fully ready, because you'll never be fully ready, since you've never done that before. So, when opportunities arise, if you really want to do it, you need to take it. Do not wait until you're fully ready. Why do I say this? Because let's say we have two employees, male and female, pretty much the same experience, same skill set. I hate to generalize, but there is a tendency that women do not raise their hands to take opportunities. Let's say they both have five years of experience and are both good, but he raises his hand and gets that opportunity. At that time, it's the same, but let's say he took that opportunity, did great, made many mistakes, learned from those mistakes, then got a new opportunity, and that goes on for five years. Then he will be more capable than her, although their starting point was exactly the same, because he had those experiences. So, taking opportunities, especially in the earlier stage of your career, is important because it's okay to make mistakes, and mistakes are what you learn from. So, never wait until you're fully ready; you will never be fully ready. That's the first point. The second point is: you cannot try to be perfect with everything. Especially for female colleagues, you may be a daughter, a parent, a wife, a manager—many things rolled into one. If you try to be perfect for every role, it can feel suffocating that you need to be perfect for everybody. It's okay not to be perfect for everything. One of my friends recently told me that how she measures how well the day went is by how many times she yelled at her children. It's real—you can't pretend everything is beautiful and perfect. Being a professional and a parent is difficult, and in this COVID situation, it's even more difficult. So, I think it's okay not to be perfect for everything. That's the second advice.

Right now, it's sustainability transformation. It's what I'm excited the most about. What sustainability transformation entails, I cannot share all the details because I'm going to propose this to the board in two weeks, and after that commitment, we're going to release everything in May when we announce the new results. So, I cannot share everything today, but what I can say is how I came to choose that as my theme. A year back, I was going to join the board of directors, and at some point, I would graduate from Recruit. On that day when I graduate, looking back at my journey, what are the things that are going to make me smile? That was the question I had. We've been saying we're going to be number one in the matching market. Now, that's great, and we're doing everything we can, but at a personal level, it's not going to cut it, because matching is matching. Looking down at the earth from the moon or the sun, one matching is one matching. Millions of matches happen on platform A or platform B; ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Talking about size and number one, that itself is not fully satisfying. I need more. So, what I want to do is use that power of size, data, and technology for the people who are still struggling. For instance, an OECD report shared that 40% of households in all OECD countries—26 overseas countries—40% of households would go under the poverty line if they don't have three months' income. What we're doing is critical, and we need to be better at what we're doing. On the other hand, we cannot forget the people who are struggling to even enter that market. For instance, more than seven million people in Indeed's operating company countries are not getting a job after a year of job search. It's a painful fact we all need to face. There are many reasons, but it's fact that they're struggling to get a job after a year of job search. How can we make an impact on those people who need our support? That's what I am passionate about and excited about. It's a portion of the whole plan, and we're going to be sharing those in coming months. So, stay tuned is everything I can say right now.

Thank you for having me.