Ep 9: Dr Helen Pain MBE and celebrating the chemistry community

Gosh, Harry, it's lovely to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Gosh, where did it start? I guess it started right back when I was at school. I loved school, absolutely loved school, and I was really good at maths. For so much of my school days, that's what really inspired me until I had an exceptional chemistry teacher. I met Dr. cousins, Dr. Sheila cousins. She had a PhD from Imperial College. When I went to my secondary school, I think she was a deputy head teacher and then she became head teacher, but she was also my chemistry teacher. If it hadn't been for Dr. cousins, I don't think I would have chosen a career in chemistry. The real specific thing about Dr. cousins was because she was a deputy head teacher and then a head teacher, it was her leadership qualities that really inspired me. Probably from the age of about 12, that's who I decided I wanted to be like, not as a teacher, but doing the subject and doing the kind of science behind what I could see Dr. cousins doing. So alongside my love of maths and all things logic and logic puzzles, I developed this real love of chemistry. I think that's what started it, that's what started my career that I've obviously continuing with today.

I think the thing with chemistry is it's all very much hands-on. It's about doing things in a practical setting. So it's the theory, and I was really drawn to theory, but it was the mix of being able to understand through books and what you could visualize on the page, but actually being able to carry it out yourself. I've always enjoyed doing things that are quite creative, I'm not necessarily very good at creative things or art, but the ability to do things with your hands is really exciting. That's what chemistry is all about, being able to do things in situ and show what's happening. The things that change color, that make new compounds, that make new materials, understanding how things work, that's what really attracted me. I always wonder whether if Dr. cousins had been an engineer, I might have followed that path instead, but I'm so fortunate and grateful that it was chemistry. It has been with me through my whole career.

To further my education, of course I did. I was at a very good state school. When I came to choose my A-levels, I obviously chose to do chemistry. Interestingly, I initially thought about doing geography, but I didn't want to leave Dr. cousins at that point, so I continued with A-level chemistry. When it came to choosing a university, because maths was my subject, I looked for courses that would combine maths and chemistry. There were four or five universities across the UK that did a combined honors degree, and one of them happened to be Exeter. I had some connection with the West Country, so I ended up doing my degree there. Originally I went to do maths and chemistry, but I soon discovered how difficult the maths was at university level, so I decided to focus on the thing I really loved by that stage, partly because of the subject matter and the practical experiments and the ability to be in a lab, but also the people. I was so lucky that I had found a community in chemistry that I felt so connected to. That community has been with me since I decided to go to Exeter to do a degree.

What made me consider geography? I think I was good at the subject, or at least I thought I was. I was doing my O-levels. Interestingly, I think I did much better in chemistry than in geography. The other thing about geography was it was still about understanding the people aspect, understanding how things work. There are similarities across all those subjects, whether it's the sciences or the social sciences, understanding how big systems work. That probably was the thing I enjoyed about geography at the time. But in terms of how things work and systems, you can experience that through chemistry and studying chemistry.

Absolutely. I did my undergraduate degree in chemistry. I was so fortunate that all of my lectures were really attentive, they really cared about the students. One of my undergraduate tutors in my first year was Professor David Evans. After I left Exeter, he moved to China. David is still in China and is somebody that I work very closely with now in terms of our work in China. He has been phenomenal in his ability to put together outreach programs for many school children in China. It's a fantastic example of how you can have one interaction with an individual because of one part of your career, and then all these years later, work with somebody still connected through chemistry in a very different way. I love that I have these long-term connections with people. But the person who was a role model and absolutely inspired me when I was doing my degree and particularly my PhD was Professor Eddie Abel. He was head of our department, went on to have a senior role as Pro-Chancellor, and unbeknown to me at the time, he had a strong role within the Royal Society of Chemistry and became president of the RSC not long after I joined in 1994. Ed was just so supportive and really put students first. Not only was he a phenomenal chemist and teacher, but he understood the individual needs of the students he worked with and had a real interest in what they went on to do. There are a number of us still in chemistry in different roles who credit Ed as the person that started them off in their careers and inspired them. I feel incredibly privileged and grateful to have worked with and known Ed for so many years.

I graduated my first degree and carried on to my PhD. While I was doing my PhD, I did the thing that back in the early 90s every student did, which was to go around the milk round interviews. I interviewed for several roles across the big chemical companies like ICI, Crown Paints, Mobil Oil, or British Gas. I went to all of these assessment centers for graduate programs. But what became really clear to me during that period was that I was inspired by the business side of things and the leadership piece. What I really wanted to do was work with people, the people aspect. In the last year of my PhD, I even said to my supervisor when he asked what I wanted to do, I said I wanted to work for the Royal Society of Chemistry and organize conferences because I was really drawn to organizing things and working with people. I had decided that I wouldn't necessarily want to continue in an academic career for a number of reasons. Just as I was finishing my PhD, I opened New Scientist one day and there was an advert for what was called the Younger Chemist Liaison Officer at the RSC. I looked at the advert and thought, 'That's my job, that's what I want to do.' I applied, was interviewed, and offered the role. I haven't looked back since. It felt like a meant-to-be moment, but little did I know at that stage what I'd go on to do at the RSC, that I'd spend my whole career working for the organization.

I was working in inorganic chemistry, specifically coordination chemistry. I worked with a ligand called 'tadine' and was looking at complexes of 'tadine' with transition metals, creating novel compounds and studying them under different conditions, particularly using variable temperature NMR to look at functionality. 'Tadine' tends to form either bidentate or terdentate complexes. We discovered something called the 'tick-tock mechanism' whereby it fluctuates from two different forms in a tick-tock mechanism rather than a rotational mechanism. In fact, if I look above my desk, I have a Molymod model of the 'tadine' ligand because I used it in a school talk recently to explain what I was working on. I was able to work with amazing colleagues in the lab and identify this mechanism; I was part of the naming of it, and I'm really proud of that. Through that work, I published a few papers, particularly with the RSC. I was very proud of that connection with the RSC even then. I had the opportunity during my PhD to be part of a community of other coordination chemists. Many years later, one of our trustees, Ed Conable, worked in a similar area when I was doing my PhD, so it's a nice link back to those early connections. My PhD involved lots of time in the lab, lots of synthesis, analytical techniques, lots of throwing things together and seeing if it works. That's what I love about inorganic chemistry: it's done on scale, with full color, and you get to really try things out and see what works, and 98% of the time, what doesn't work, and that's sometimes just exciting.

Yes. When I was doing my PhD, one of my colleagues in the lab said to me one day, and I was very taken aback because I didn't understand why the statement was made, along the lines of, 'You've obviously decided not to get married and have children.' I remembered thinking, 'What is it I've said or done that would give anybody that impression?' When I queried it, acting surprised and probably a bit offended, they went on to say, 'Because you've chosen to do a PhD. Why would you spend time doing a PhD if you were planning to get married and have children?' I didn't think any more of it at the time, other than knowing I was offended and that it had a bit of an impact on me, maybe putting a little self-doubt in my mind about whether I was good enough to go on and get married or have children, or maybe it made me doubt my commitment to chemistry beyond the PhD. It was only years later that it really struck me how inappropriate and quite impactful that comment was. Because I've done so much work thinking about research culture and what's appropriate, and how we need to encourage people to continue in academic research and in the lab, comments like that are not acceptable. Stereotyping or making statements of that nature are just not acceptable. But luckily, it didn't affect me at the time, and I got my PhD, got married, and had children. I don't think that comment changed my course, but I can happily say I am married with two children.

They are actually. I have two sons, both grown up now. My older son recently graduated with a degree in chemistry, and my youngest son is just in his first year studying geology, but in his first year he is doing geology and chemistry, so heavily involved in chemistry as well. I think he'll go on to focus more on geology as he completes his degree. I like to think I've had a little influence there, but I never had to help them with homework, and I was always very grateful for that. They never came to me for help.

I was, absolutely. I finished my lab work during the summer of 1993, then was writing up and submitted mid-November. In October, I saw the advert, interviewed in early December, and started on the 10th of January 1994, so almost to the day 30 years ago. I remember going for the interview in the same building where I continue to work in Cambridge on the Science Park. Even at that stage, the fact that I had done my PhD and degree and the connections I made through my experience of chemistry were helping me secure that job. That was really nice to know. That has been a very strong theme throughout all the roles I've had, my ability to connect with the people I work with. I always put it back to the fact that I made the right decision in doing the degree in the first place.

I do, yes. I was interviewed by a lady called Jane Sutton, and she was my very first boss. Jane now works at the Royal Academy of Engineering. Just recently, she was in contact when I was awarded my MBE, and I thanked Jane for giving me my very first role at the RSC. I will always be grateful to Jane for giving me my first job. She was a joy to work with, so I was very pleased to have that opportunity.

I would describe my career as quite linear, which is quite different for many careers now. I was at an event last year where someone introduced the concept of a 'squiggly career' going off in different directions. Mine is the opposite; it has been quite linear through the same organization, albeit I've had many different roles with the RSC. When I joined in 1994, I was the Younger Chemist Liaison Officer. That sounds like a fancy title, but my job was to travel around the UK and Ireland recruiting student members to the RSC. I genuinely thought I had the best job in the world because I could spend every day through term time going to different university departments, often meeting people I already knew through my degree or PhD, and talking to students about the benefits of being a member of the RSC: careers guidance, support, funding, and connections. There was a real sense of achievement. In my first year, I visited 65 chemistry departments, and before satnavs and mobile phones, that in itself was an achievement. Through that, I met so many people. Even now, I'm still in contact with people I recruited in those first few years. Some of our members will have met me when I first joined and have literally seen me grow through the organization. After a couple of years, my job evolved. I took on more recruitment responsibility for the whole membership, not just students. I introduced marketing principles, took evening classes for a qualification in marketing, and brought that capability into the organization. Later, I got involved in conferences, events, networks, and the Chemist Community Fund, previously the Benevolent Fund. One of my proudest achievements at the RSC has been working with that fund. It is a phenomenal opportunity to support people in our community at times of need. We have an amazing team doing that, with a true commitment and passion to help members in times of real need, providing life-changing support. That continues to be an important connection for me. I feel very proud of what we have done and continue to do.

That's right, Robert Parker, to whom I owe a huge amount. I worked for Robert since he became chief executive in 2011. Like me, Robert's whole career was spent with the RSC. When he retired a couple of years ago, he had been with the organization for 35 years. I learned a lot from Robert and also from the CEOs before him. Having been here 30 years, I've worked with three or four chief executives and many others. Interestingly, I've only had three or four managers. When I joined, the organization was entering a growth phase, and I was always on the leading edge of that growth. As the organization grew, my role grew. I probably created opportunities for myself but also took advantage of changes around me. I had the advantage of working with successive CEOs over the years. There probably was a point, after about 15 years, when I thought that might be a role I could do. But what could I learn? What would I need to do? I've always set myself long-term goals. If you have a real long-term aspiration and stay focused, you can achieve it, and you make decisions along the way, like what additional training to volunteer for. Knowing I had worked at the RSC my whole career, I thought I should get some experience outside. I started doing trustee work and volunteering, first as a school governor and then with other charities, to gain external experience alongside the RSC experience. That stood me in very good stead when I finally applied for the CEO role. Honestly, I had that aspiration for many years before I became CEO.

I like to think I made some of it happen. I was in control of my future.

I had a very drawn-out experience becoming chief executive. In 2015, I became deputy chief executive with Robert as CEO. At the beginning of 2020, Robert took some time out and I was appointed acting CEO on January 16, 2020. Within two weeks, we learned from our colleagues in China about something happening that might have a big impact, and that turned out to be the pandemic. That year of change at the RSC meant we all worked differently. When it came to the end of that year, Robert was due to come back, but a lot had changed. He decided to move into a different role, and I became interim CEO while the trustees went through a full recruitment process. I went through a thorough four-month interview process and was appointed in June 2021. So I went from deputy to acting to interim to CEO. By that time, I felt it was a continuation; I had already put in place the strategy I wanted going forward. There was never a point where I stopped one job and started another. That's been the case for my whole career: one job moved into the next. But on the day I was offered the role of CEO, I felt incredibly proud and thought, 'This is amazing.' I still feel very lucky.

I think it's the same, actually, because it's still connected to the amazing work of our community and my colleagues and all the people I've worked with. I achieved the CEO role through work with many different people over the years, with the Science Council, the Technician Commitment where I chair the steering board, and many different organizations and stakeholders. That helped me become chief executive, but that was focused on the RSC part. When I got the letter about being made an MBE, I felt really privileged and extremely honored because it recognized my work across the whole science community. That community piece really matters to me, the connection of all the different parts of the science community coming together to make a sector so strong with so much opportunity. It reinforced the pride I felt when I got the CEO role, but it was recognition from many different parts of the work I've done. It was amazing.

At some point during the early part of this year. I know they're going to be in contact, and I'll have the opportunity to go and receive it, which will be amazing.

There is so much potential opportunity for chemistry to continue to make a difference. Through the RSC, our whole purpose is helping the chemical science community make the world a better place. That includes sustainability, our inclusion and diversity work, supporting our community, ensuring the discipline continues to strengthen and be funded, advocating for the subject and influencing policy, and ensuring there are future chemical scientists by inspiring children in school and supporting teachers to be role models. There is so much work to continue doing, so much impact to achieve. I'm very proud of where we are at the RSC. There is lots of change across the chemical science sector and the publishing sector, and we need to continue to be part of that. I always say from an RSC perspective, there are many things we will lead on, many we will partner in, and many we will support. It's about playing to our strengths and playing our important role alongside other disciplines and professions. Having just celebrated 30 years at the RSC, I'm absolutely focused on what the next five or ten years look like. I've got to set my next five-year goal: what do I want to achieve in that time, and what do I want to help others achieve? I realize I am in a fortunate position to support and mentor and maybe be a role model for the future CEO of the Royal Society of Chemistry. Going back to the important role Robert played in my career, when he stepped down, he had really helped with succession planning in support of me and many others. I want to make sure that when it's my turn to leave, I have left the organization in an equally strong position. Succession planning is really important.

Well, maybe not, Harriet, maybe not.

I was in contact with her several years ago. I wrote to her when I became Director of Membership at the RSC. Unfortunately, I think Dr. cousins has passed away now, but I certainly wrote to let her know the role I had and to thank her. I will keep saying that if it hadn't been for Dr. cousins at school, I don't know what I would be doing now.