Brad Pitt | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard, joined by Mrs Mouse. We've been so excited about this episode. Even though he said yes, I'm still scared something will happen.

Yeah, I am too until it's been out for like two weeks.

The notion of interviewing this person was absolutely implausible. It was a joke.

It was a funny joke. But then Monty got Matt Damon and that cracked a ray of hope. Dreams do come true.

Without further ado, my dream boyfriend Brad Pitt, an Academy Award-winning actor. He's perfect. Please enjoy Brad Pitt.

You too. I got a blueberry latte. Want a sip?

You got to take a little rip. I've put two nicotine products next to you in case you want.

Is it? That's what he likes to say. Listen, I got it in reserves. You don't need any pick-me-up.

You can do whatever you want. We can sponsor. But we're going to ask you to hold a fillet of fish and say 'God damn this is good.' You don't have to say McDonald's.

Not only is this God's true cashmere, I'm pretty sure this is the one you gifted me. I've got a few now. I think he's trolling a little bit. Monte has some shorts. They're so cute. How did we come up with the name God's True Cashmere? My dear friend who is a holistic nurse. She made me a green shirt. Her name is Sati, which means God's truth. We started making them for friends. It's been a lot of fun. She said 'What do you think of God's True Cashmere?' I went 'It's bold.' It's memorable. Might get a certain segment of the country mad but hey, let's roll with it.

You mean of... That's hopefully where it is. You know, I've never had a gay experience. I kind of missed that window. But if I did, yeah, it wouldn't be you. Oh man, you had me. I was like he's going to say it. I was like he Dax is going to die. 14th or 15th, I don't want to brag but you're going to need to build up to me. Oh boy, I do recommend you start with some starters.

No, not at all. Quite at ease. We can say men's group, right? I say AA, you're not supposed to, but I said that I went on some New York Times interview and what a amazing thing this experience was for me. It was a men's group. Yeah, it was AA. It was when I first was getting sober and I just thought there was just incredible men sharing their experiences, their foibles, their missteps, their wants, their aches, and a lot of humor with it. I thought it was really special experience coming from the Ozarks where we're like everything's great. And so I do this interview and I say this and I got admonished by someone of the higher ups. Oh you did? It's anonymous. I went but no. And but how does that help anyone though? Not for you. I that's what I fit. Yeah. Here's the truth. There was a period of time where if you were known to be an alcoholic you would be run out of your neighborhood. You couldn't find employment. There was a great reason for it. But even deeper than that is they didn't want alcoholics just showing up at their doorstep because no one had a solution and you would be kind of inviting just the town drunks to show up. So a lot of reasons. My excuse, I say it openly and I've gotten some criticism. It's like I've had a couple dozen maybe more people come up to me in the last seven years and go like 'Hey man, I'm the best man in my brother's wedding and my family wouldn't talk to me and I found out about AA from you.' And I'm like 'I'll take that dude over 1,000.' I've had a few of those as well. Yeah. But Dax, you know you go around in a circle, it's kind of spiral because it's really crowded room. Dax would always be near the end usually because he's been there a while. He's kind of like an elder statesman. Thank you. And would always have this... I really respected it. Was really open honest. Was a way to kind of take the whatever the theme kind of seemed to go in the evening and then put it in the funniest kind of package. And it meant a lot to me. Really did. That's really... I say that straight. Good job D. Yeah that was a really... I haven't talked to him since. Yeah. So impactful that I have not seen him. You use him for what he's worth and then you walk away. That's what we do. Send him a couple of the free products every now and then. He tell you about our date? Yeah he did. But we keep you on the DL a little bit on this show. Yeah. And this is really kind of this fun theme that I often tell people this and I wonder if you can relate to this. Surely you've worked with people where you're holding two things simultaneously about them. Like if you were to have worked with Paul Newman, I imagine you have. Paul Newman. Yeah. And then you would have a man you know. Yep. Yeah. And I think it's okay to keep both those things alive. Yeah. I think that's fair. Yeah. It's I have a handful of friends where it's like Robert Downey Jr. I saw him as a kid in Weird Science and him dumping the malt off the top of the album... He's not even a main player in that movie. He had a rad cardigan on and like a zoot suit or something. Yeah he was wild. And I'm like that dude's awesome. I love that dude. Followed him throughout the years. Ultimately became friends with him. And it's like yeah I have like Robert the dude I know. And then there's the guy I just was in love with from Chaplin and all these things but they don't really intersect, right? They don't intertwine that way. Did you have anyone like that?

Okay go back to that situation which meeting you in that context. You're at this meeting. We're going to get into the fact that a bazillion famous people have come to this meeting and everyone's used to it and then you came and it was pretty overwhelming and I got a real sense of what your experience is in this way that I couldn't really fathom. But you have the power of when you are in a place everyone can't stop thinking about you. And I was like God he has to be aware of that. What does that feel like? That's a lot to deal with. How is he ever going to open up and be honest in this space? And then it dissipated a bit. People get a little more comfortable. And then you were so honest. And I was like he must have a stubbornness like I have which is like yeah all this is going on but I refuse to let it not let me be a person.

Is the embarrassment because it feels like there's some kind of lack of humility in that part of the job?

My arc – which I'm embarrassed to even try to compare to yours – but my arc was I wanted it so bad, it happened, it was so fun for a minute. Then I was at a hamburger restaurant I love in Austin while making 'Idiocracy,' and I was in Fuders and I was like, 'Oh, that table of people staring at me. Oh, that table's also staring at me.' And I remember calling my girlfriend, almost in tears, going, 'I feel so out of control. I have no control over my environment anymore.' It felt very claustrophobic. Then I hated it, and then I came to accept it. And even more profound, in therapy a few years back, the dude really figured out – or helped me figure out – I feel very fraudulent receiving that attention. I don't feel worthy of it.

I was reading an interview with Owen Wilson years ago, and I thought he summed it up the best. He goes, 'You know, it's kind of cool if you think about the fact that you can just make someone's day.' And I was like, 'Well, that is a cool power.'

But we've got to talk about punk, because punk was revolutionary. 'Jackass' and then into punk. That was revolutionary at a time when we were coming off this era where you've got to be tough guys, don't show weakness, to this turn of this punk rock effect: no, not only that, we're going to embarrass ourselves the most we can. And there was a real freedom in that switch that happened.

Like you, I want nothing but approval, and then when I get it, I'm like I don't trust it. All I want is approval, and yet I can't think of someone who needs approval at all. Do you think you do?

As Brad, do you need – like Dax and I need – we're bottomless pits of approval from people we think are high status. My grossest quality: people I admire. That's fair. And I still feel like that kid in Missouri from the Ozarks, still groping my way through this whole thing, still can't believe you're here.

Jackass. The person I admire the most is Will Ferrell. I'm at a basketball game, I will not miss a Will Ferrell movie. What I love is his art installations as a human. So I'm at a Lakers game one time and I go, 'That security guard looks like Will Ferrell.' It really looks like Will Ferrell. I'm like, 'That's Will Ferrell.' He's sitting there as a security guard next to the other security guard. I interviewed him later and he goes, 'Oh, I have this bit with Adam where on our birthdays we give each other outfits and you have to go use the outfit wherever.' And so Adam gave him the full security outfit and he smuggled it into the Staples Center, went into the bathroom, put the outfit on. I just admire that so much. I'm almost mad at myself I haven't thought of that. I love the sabotage and the good fun you've got to have with this thing.

But what I've really liked about you is, I'm watching 'Jackass' one time and all of a sudden you're on the show. Celebrity kidnapping. I'm like, 'Oh, God bless him. He likes Jackass.' How did that happen?

And how did you end up on Dave? I'm watching Dave, you're on, and I reverse engineer and go, 'Brad loves Dave. How rad.' I tell you, my favorite humor is the most irreverent humor. Maybe because I'm so worried about stepping in shit, saying the wrong thing. I will do this at times, say things that are so wrong, and it just makes me laugh. And I thought his show was great. Maybe he got word I really liked his show and he wrote me and said, 'Hey, you want to do something?' And I just said, 'I'm trying but I can't find a reason not to.' So I guess I have to.

Isn't it funny who people like admire? I was watching you and Adam Sandler do the Actor on Actor thing. Drama dudes love comedians, comedians love drama dudes. We all just want to be the thing we're not. It's wild. So I saw 'Once Upon a Time' when it came out, liked it a lot. Then five years went by, I'm on a plane a year and a half ago and it's there, so I start watching it. I'm like, 'This movie is way better than I remember.' Then I get off the plane and now I've got to finish it, so I'm in a hotel room watching on my iPad. Then I come home, I watch it in my theater. Then I watch it with my friend Nate. I've watched it now probably eight times in the last 18 months. I'm so obsessed with that movie. I think it's second best to only 'Pulp Fiction.' It's so good.

No, that's the thing that's least understood: the degree of difficulty. Even we'll get credit for a great director or great writing, but perfect song choice, great editing. We need all these recruitments to help us out. But he was doing multiple layers in there. That star tantrum cracks me up. 'That's it, buddy, I'm a has-been.'

Your resume is annoying because we're not going to get to talk about everything. 'Moneyball' is one of my favorites. I came into this show talked about 'Moneyball' for three months straight. We just had Michael Lewis on. What a dude, what a brain. He's so charismatic and charming. I desperately wanted him to like me.

That's funny. I thought I was watching Duffy. I see my dad. Our mutual friend Duffy was a Navy SEAL, the toughest human being on planet Earth. Solid as a rock. He's gorgeous. If you can't see that, you need glasses. He's the only 60-year-old man I see like 30-year-olds buying drinks. There's one scene I always point people to: 'GI Jane.' He's a trainer. He trained me on 'Troy' and a few others over the next decade. In 'GI Jane,' they needed real Navy SEALs, and he's in the movie. Watch it: there's a moment where they need someone to do the ultimate Navy SEAL thing – on a Zodiac boat, someone hangs off the side with an inner tube, a guy in the water grabs it, and Duffy rips the human being out of the water. His lats are that wide. Those guys, their baseline of discomfort is where we would tap out. That's where they begin.

My upbringing, when I say my dad, probably my upbringing. 'Fight Club' and things that are more irreverent. Even being flashy in 'Oceans.' You're embracing the flash.

One last question, then F1. You've worked in four different decades now. Do you have a favorite of those decades of working?

How did you learn that accent? Can you still talk like a pikey?

So motorsports. Before we started, I brought you a gift – an Apex GP souvenir. Look at the back: 'Action Factory' stamp. We got so much shit from the real crews because other teams were laughing at us. They switched out all the shirts, but I got one from wardrobe. You got the shit stamp one.

So I had it wrong. I texted you, 'Are you watching Drive to Survive? If not, text me when you've finished it; I bet it'll be in 18 hours.' You texted me 18 hours later, 'Oh fuck, I watched them all.' So you fell in love with it like I did from that.

You kind of fall extra in love with it through Drive to Survive, I'm imagining.

So you don't initiate this. You get approached.

No, fuck titties is my ultimate compliment. All right, great. Titties are the best thing in the world. They've been around for 10,000 years. The genius of having Lewis is it's really hard to make a movie about F1 that can exist within the world of F1. It's unprecedented. The fact that they're involved is crazy. We're infused into the racing season. I think having Lewis there means all the mechanisms driving the plot could really happen. They're true to Formula 1. It's by a tenth of a second. If you're not on the right team, that's it. There's so many things antithetical to a great movie. You can't have a magic device. It has to be real. And there's clever things your character does that are totally believable, very 'Days of Thunder'-y. You're a last-place team, so you've got to play with what you got. How do you win with what you got? That's Moneyball. There's good teams, bad teams, 50 feet of crap, and then us.

But you did get an invite. She got an invite. I did get an invite. She didn't cut you out. No, no, no, I get myself in places.

It almost made me question who Monica was because she was going to ride with us and she goes, 'I'm not coming.' I was like, 'What has happened?' I have a show, I have an operation to run here. And Dax made a good point: sometimes it's good for me not to have seen the movie in case things get very esoteric. I also edit the show, so if I'm like, 'No one's going to understand anything.' I wondered if this was going to be an hour and a half just talking about wheels.

But you did really well to hold it off, by the way. Anytime someone arrives in a cool car, she's like, 'We're fucked.'

Well okay, it's spectacular. You guys did it. You made probably the most realistic racing movie that's ever been made. You're radical. Okay, I'm going to end on this. You said, 'No, I met you before the meeting.' And you did, and I'm going to tell you when you wouldn't remember, but I don't think you know the punchline to the story, and I think you'll get a kick out of it. So we're at the Academy Awards, Kristen and I. I've never been. And I go to take a squirt and I'm coming back. She knows you're my number one. I'm coming back to the seat, you're three rows ahead of us. As I'm getting close to her, she's mouthing something to me. I'm like what? And I hear, 'He's talking to you.' I go, 'What do I remember? He's talking to you.' I'm like, 'What? Brad Pitt's talking to me?' And I turn around and you're standing up and you go, 'We loved your movie, right?' You're talking about Hit and Run, but I kind of lose my... I don't really remember. I've directed a movie at that point. I'm just like, 'Oh, thank you.' And you're like, 'Yeah, we loved it. It was so nice.' You know, you see people up on screen, you still recognize your people. And I'm doing 100% of the driving in that movie. As someone who does these things, I'm in shots you can't be in unless you're sideways. Also just a down-home, more country vibe that you just recognize your people in Ireland, New Zealand on screen. So you're standing up at the Academy Awards shouting to me, 'We loved your movie.' So then I sit down, and this is the punchline you don't know about. The second after you said that, the very next thing that happened was they started the in memoriam portion of the awards. Oh no. And I'm sitting down, I'm so happy that Kristen goes, 'Honey, stop smiling. It's the in memoriam part.' I also want the outtakes of that. If there's any camera on me during that in memoriam, you almost got him cancelled. I could have been escorted out of the business. I've never been happier watching this group of dead people be celebrated. So that was the punchline you missed.

He is an arm expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank god Monica's here. She's going to let him have the facts. We had a fun run-in this weekend. Delta and Aaron and I went over to Mustard Seed Cafe. A cafe nearby which I've recently become all renewed obsessed with. They got a dish for me that couldn't be more perfect. Broccoli egg whites with capers scramble, turkey patty on the side. Everything's separated on one plate. I get this Romelad sauce. I thought they made a special sauce, but I found out they buy it. I also saw you and Jess stroll by while I was inside eating. I said, 'Delta just walked by,' so she ran out and flagged each other down. We had a fun pop-out. Then you guys were en route to the protest. We went to the rally in Los Feliz on Saturday. No kings rally. It was heartwarming. Everyone got playful. There were some really funny signs. We then went to the Beverly Hills Hotel and had a martini. Then we pivoted to dogs. I've taken a break from speaking ill of dogs because people hate it, but I had a resurgence of annoyance for them this weekend. First, I saw a podcast where a dog was commandeering the conversation, and I respected Amy's no-dogs-at-work policy. Then at Anna's house, Mona the dog was in people's laps. I don't like inconveniencing people, but it's tricky for dog owners because a huge percentage of the city loves it. I think it's aspirational to let it be without it bothering you, but it feels unfair. People should acknowledge they're bringing an animal into spaces designed for humans.

Yeah, we were on our way to the rally. Jess texted me in the morning about the No Kings rally in Los Feliz. I was already on my walk, so I went to his door and said, 'Let's go.' He put on his sunscreen and tall socks, and we walked there. We ran into you. It was such a lovely run-in. It was almost as if I planned the whole rally. But first, let's finish the rally. It had a good party vibe, very heartwarming. There were so many signs. Some we disagreed with, like the oil painting of Trump that said 'This man has never had a friend.' But there were really clever ones, like 'You worried about the cost of eggs, but what about the cost of ice?' There were a lot of plays on 'dictator.' It was a happy environment, emotional in a good way. I'm really glad we went. It was solidarity. Then we went to the Beverly Hills Hotel and had a martini.

Now pivoting. Dogs. You know I've taken a break from speaking ill of dogs because people don't like it. But I had a resurgence of annoyance this weekend. I saw Amy's podcast with Dakota Johnson. The dog Tokyo was taking up a lot of the conversation. I respect Amy's no-dogs-at-work policy and felt so seen. I want you to tell her that. Then at Anna's house, Mona the dog was in people's laps. I'm very hyper-aware when we're out with a dog. I don't like inconveniencing people. But the dog owner gets a lot of joy, and the people who don't like it aren't saying anything. I think it's unfair. I'd love acknowledgment that people who don't like dogs are constantly dealing with them in LA.

For Father's Day, I watched The Godfather with two other fathers and ordered Italian food. It was a blast. Then I wanted to watch a family movie, so I suggested Rocky from the kids' list. Chris asked when Rocky got on the list, and I said I added it. We watched it and had great discussions about the complexities of the scene where Rocky pressures Adrian. It led to a conversation about forcing versus pushing, and I think it's complicated. The kids loved it. Later, I facetimed my father-in-law and he laughed when I said we watched The Godfather and then Rocky. It was a good day.

Wow, Brad Pitt facts. Who would have thought that sentence could come out of my mouth. I'm a little scared for us. Like we'll die. It's too good. There's some suspicious stuff because the day we recorded Brad, we also recorded an episode about the simulation. What are the odds? I appreciated you so much in that interview. You did the perfect job. I was filled with joy that the little girl who was afraid to talk in front of Mike Shure was sitting across from Brad Pitt and letting it rip. I felt proud of you.

Behind the scenes, you had yourself three or four times. I had to talk to myself in the morning about expectations. It was a big day for us. I had to prioritize the audience and not myself. I had a list of deal breakers, like not fawning over him. But he showed up feeling good and put us at ease. We had a ton of fun. I texted him the gate code and he wrote 'Bueno' and then 'Oh is that today?' We had 10 minutes of waiting. When he walked in, I stuck my hand out to shake, but his hands were full, so it was awkward. Then I asked if he was wearing a waffle shirt, but it was his brand God's True Cashmere. I thought the name implied he was the god, and he didn't like that. Then we got into facts about zoot suits and the movie Adaptation. And then about the Harlem Globetrotters. So Brad Pitt is done for now. Hopefully, Nick Cage is still out there.