Welcome to the Committee on Economic Affairs, which is in charge of productive activities and enterprises. We are pleased to welcome the Chairman and CEO of Saint-Gobain, Mr. Benoît Bazin. Thank you for being here. You are accompanied by Mr. Dominique Azam, Director of Institutional Affairs, whom we also welcome. Saint-Gobain has a long history in France, originating from the Manufacture Royale des Glaces, founded in 1665, before becoming a corporation in 1830, merging with Pont-à-Mousson SA in 1968, gaining global reach. It was nationalized in 1982 and privatized in 1986. Today it designs, produces, and distributes numerous materials and services for housing and industry. Saint-Gobain aims to become the world leader in sustainable construction, present in 80 countries with over 161,000 employees, 2004 revenues of €46.6 billion, and operating profit of €5.3 billion. Your headquarters are in France, with 29% of revenue from Southern Europe including France, 24% from Northern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa, and 21% from the Americas. Your group plays a major role in research with eight transversal R&D centers and around 100 development units worldwide, grouping 3,700 researchers, with a total R&D budget of approximately €450 million. Before giving you the floor, I'd like to ask some preliminary questions. Your group, created by Colbert, celebrated its 360th anniversary this year, yet three-quarters of your employees work outside France. How do you explain these development and localization choices, and what are your future industrial projects for France? How do you assess the state of European industry—its limits and fragilities—and what would it need to consolidate against growing global competition? Your group aims to become the world leader in sustainable construction. You inaugurated a plasterboard factory in Canada powered entirely by green electricity and launched in Finland the world's lowest-carbon insulation factory. What decarbonization strategy are you developing in France, especially as your Pont-à-Mousson plant is reportedly the 17th largest greenhouse gas emitter in France? How do you plan to succeed in this decarbonization when other major industries are abandoning their investments? Mr. Bazin, thank you again for your availability. I now give you the floor for approximately fifteen minutes.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for both your invitation and this very rich introduction. My opening remarks will focus on Saint-Gobain's overall strategy and naturally what we do in France. Saint-Gobain is celebrating its 360th anniversary this year—a very long and rich history, long because we never stopped reinventing ourselves, innovating constantly. We operate today in 80 countries with 2024 revenues of approximately €47 billion and 161,000 employees. The first point is Saint-Gobain's purpose, expressed in English because we are a very international group: 'Making the World a Better Home'—truly focusing on the world of construction and sustainable construction. For that, Saint-Gobain has committed to achieving carbon neutrality by 2050, with a very ambitious trajectory. We have already reduced our direct CO₂ emissions by 34% since 2017. We have enormous activities both in low-carbon commercial offerings and in decarbonizing our footprint. Let me return to the deep transformation at Saint-Gobain. I have worked at Saint-Gobain for 26 years, plus one year as an intern back in 1993—27 years of my life dedicated to Saint-Gobain, with a brief stint in the public administration before that. Since 2019, when I was appointed Deputy CEO, then CEO, then Chairman and CEO, we have evolved Saint-Gobain significantly along two axes. First, organizationally. For decades, we were organized by global product lines with French heads—glass wool, glazing, plasterboard, mortars—in complex matrix structures with regional delegates. We decided in 2019 to shift entirely to a country-based organization. Today, Saint-Gobain is managed with a single level of responsibility: by country. This is very well suited to local markets—you don't build in Normandy the same way as in Provence, or in Vietnam the same way as in Canada. We have 1,100 factories worldwide—not because we are disorganized, but because our products are often heavy and don't travel well, so they must be manufactured locally. This local organization is very powerful: it provides customer proximity, team proximity—I believe strongly in managerial proximity—and it is adapted to a deglobalized world, since we are not directly impacted by tariff barriers. We manufacture in the US what we sell in the US, in India what we sell in India, in France what we sell in France. This transformation has brought significant value because country by country, we sell solutions and systems. In construction, products are not isolated—they are part of a façade, part of a house's thermal performance, answering an architect's global need. Giving a country CEO the entire Saint-Gobain offering allows them to develop a holistic performance. For example, we have about 30 products for individual home renovation that can reduce energy bills by 70%, all working together. The second major evolution is a strong shift in the group's perimeter. We brought in and divested about 40% of group revenue—€17 billion in revenues turned over—to increasingly focus on sustainable construction, seeking growth in certain geographies and making the group stronger and more coherent in its solutions offering. These 126 acquisitions include two public tender offers in the US, tripling our size in Canada, and a public tender offer in Australia. Our geographic footprint changed significantly: we had 70% of sales in Western Europe in 2018; today it's 50%, because we sought growth in North America, Asia, emerging markets, India, the Middle East—where population growth is the primary growth parameter for us, meaning growth in buildings and infrastructure. France remains our number one country in revenue, representing about 25% of our revenue and our workforce of around 36,000 employees. We have 89 factories and 2,000 distribution outlets in France. We make about 5,000 hires annually on average over the last five years, with an apprenticeship program of 1,800 in 2025. Our employees are our largest shareholder—8% of capital, worth €4.5 billion, held by 62,000 employees worldwide, with 78% of French employees purchasing shares in our latest plan in March-April 2025. On R&D, we spend approximately €600 million annually, 60% of which is done in France. We have six major transversal R&D centers in Germany, the US, France, Brazil, China, and India. In France, over 1,000 employees work in R&D. The R&D tax credit is absolutely essential for locating our research activities in France—I expanded our historic Aubervilliers research center with a €50 million investment. Our industrial investment in France is approximately €400 million per year, with an additional €300-350 million in distribution investments. If capitalized, total investment in France is around €750 million annually. Examples include approximately €100 million invested in rebuilding our glass furnace at Compiègne and €200 million at Pont-à-Mousson—a difficult activity since steelmaking in Europe and France is challenging—but we courageously invested while fighting against competitors condemned by the European Commission for unfair competition. On Pont-à-Mousson's ranking among emitters, I believe we are around 60th, not 17th as mentioned, but it remains an important issue requiring a colossal investment of about €200 million for furnace electrification. We are in discussions with the state, electricity suppliers, and RTE for the necessary grid connections, but these discussions have been ongoing for 1.5 to 2 years. Our presence across France is very strong—with 2,000 agencies, any artisan in France is within 9 km of a building materials outlet. France is Saint-Gobain's number one country and will remain so, but it is a country suffering from declining activity for several years with sometimes difficult profitability. We need visibility and parameter stability. I launched our new 5-year strategic plan 'Lead & Grow' on Monday. On European industry, the main issue for our industrial businesses is energy cost—four to five times more expensive than in the US or China. We are now seeing Chinese glass arriving in Poland, Italy, and Spain, which we had never seen before. Having investment capacity for decarbonized energy is essential. I have never understood European energy policy on electricity pricing in 20 years. It is important to invest in R&D in Europe—some reports show we invest half of what the US invests. Competition policy should favor European champions rather than fragment markets into 27 countries. On decarbonization, we have invested €220 million specifically on decarbonization projects. Four years ago, I told our teams—we were born green in 1665, we won't be the second or third to make zero-carbon glass. We were the first in the world to do it and remain the first to offer low-carbon glass in Asia and Europe. We were the first—and remain the only—in the world to produce electrified plasterboard. Our four R&D priorities are all focused on process decarbonization and the circular economy—our glass wool in France uses 60% recycled materials. Construction represents 40% of CO₂ emissions, so no country can decarbonize without addressing buildings and infrastructure. Saint-Gobain is deeply committed to this, mobilizing all teams across the group. I'll stop here—I've already been too long. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and CEO, for outlining these perspectives on decarbonization and industrial development. Before hearing from the group spokespersons, allow me on behalf of the committee to welcome Ms. Christelle Minard to the LR group and our committee. Despite the circumstances, Ms. Deputy, we wish you welcome and productive work. I now give the floor to the Rassemblement National group for a maximum of 3 minutes. The floor is to Mr. Frédéric Weber.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. CEO, dear colleagues. Since the glass manufacture of 1666 until today's factories, your group embodies French know-how recognized worldwide. In my department of Moselle, I think of the Pont-à-Mousson plant, whose reputation is known to all, and which has sustained generations in the metallurgy basin. I also think of the Fougue site where 330 employees work—you recently invested €20 million in the Vulcain electric furnace, reducing CO₂ emissions by 62%. Meanwhile, your group invested heavily abroad—I'm thinking of Canada where you recently inaugurated a large zero-carbon plasterboard plant. This choice reflects a more favorable environment, strong public support, and a conquest strategy, filière by filière. Unfortunately, this dynamic is not found today in France. Reindustrialization was at the heart of a parliamentary inquiry commission created at the Rassemblement National's request. We formulated concrete proposals: eliminate the CFE business tax penalizing industrial sites, drastically reduce production taxes, exit absurd European energy market rules, and remove anti-industrial norms, starting with the ZAN law blocking many industrial projects. This requires turning the page on the Macron-Socialist energy policy that ruined our competitiveness. I wish to ask you directly: which of your French activities, sites, or sectors are most at risk today? Are site closures being considered? Thank you.
Saint-Gobain is deeply committed to all these French sites. I have explained for several years since 2017 that Pont-à-Mousson is not at the heart of the group's strategy. We are in sustainable construction, the building envelope, not in water markets. That doesn't mean we don't do the work—we invested €200 million and continue investing at Fougue, and I hope to do so at Pont-à-Mousson. I need to know what electricity price we'll operate at over several decades and ensure RTE connects the site when we shut down the blast furnace. We are fully committed to making all these sites competitive, but Pont-à-Mousson has only one blast furnace. Saint-Gobain has 125 plasterboard plants globally—I can't bring steelmaking know-how to Pont-à-Mousson. However, if there were a better operator, I would be happy to discuss it. Otherwise, we continue working very committedly, as demonstrated by our investments. The activity is now profitable when it was previously losing money and even cash-negative. We need Europe and France to implement reciprocity in public procurement—France should not be opening public tenders for pipes from Turkish suppliers when their markets are closed to us.
I now give the floor to the Ensemble pour la République group. Mr. Jean-Luc Fugit, the floor is yours.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. CEO. I wish to address a subject that goes beyond your company alone and concerns the entire building sector: the slowdown of the French construction market, and the lessons your group can draw from its international experience. For several months, sector indicators have been concerning—declining building permits, rising financing costs, caution among investors and households. This translates into lost dynamism in a historically strong market, with direct consequences for employment, productive investment, and ecological transition of the built environment. Saint-Gobain, present in over 70 countries, provides a comparative viewpoint on market dynamics, public policies, and restart strategies. Your group has undertaken significant transformation—refocusing on construction chemicals, low-carbon solutions, and international diversification. In light of your global presence, what are the main structural weaknesses of the French construction market compared to other countries where you operate? What are your priority recommendations to durably restart activity while supporting decarbonization and energy renovation objectives? As a researcher-teacher, I would also like to hear about the place of research within your group—its major axes, funding policies, how you support young researchers and doctoral students, and whether there is a hiring policy for PhD holders, given the well-known professional insertion challenges. Thank you.
Thank you. That's many important questions. On research briefly: yes, we are very much in contact with doctoral students and researchers. We were pleased to welcome a Nobel laureate at Saint-Gobain, and I hope we can invite the next one. Our four research axes are: decarbonizing our processes, accelerating the circular economy with recycled materials, inventing lightweight construction systems that avoid building with solid concrete or brick walls, and using our materials know-how—ceramics, chemicals, construction—to decarbonize not only construction but also industrial processes in glass, aluminum, etc. We spend around €600 million on this. We have joint laboratories with CNRS and are very attentive to these partnerships. On the building situation in France, it is very concerning. It has widespread consequences on economic slowdown—70% of people in social housing refuse professional mobility because they can't find housing. This even impacts demographics: people can't find housing, can't expand their families. The consequences are extremely far-reaching.
Thank you, Mr. Bazin. You'll be able to come back to this later—I understand it's frustrating, but we'll try to maintain this pace. You can obviously return to the full set of questions at the end. For the La France Insoumise group, I give the floor to Mr. Maxime Léné.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and CEO. I'll give you the opportunity to elaborate since I have some common questions. First, I share your concern about the difficulty for industrialists and all enterprises regarding the lack of visibility on electricity prices. Tomorrow morning, I will present a report with my colleague Philippe Bolot on this issue, and we will criticize the agreement between the state and EDF of November 2023, which seems to provide little visibility for your activities. I could ask you why union leaders claim there has been a shift from an industrial vision protecting activities with an important social dimension to a more financialized vision—that's a direct quote. I could question you about your objective of distributing €8 billion to shareholders by 2030 through dividends and €2 billion in share buybacks. But since you lead a CAC 40 company in construction and building renovation, I would rather ask what you think of public policies in recent years to support these sectors: new housing construction, thermal renovation—with the stop-and-go on MaPrimeRénov—measures to address the energy bill crisis, and the maintenance of an indispensable French industrial backbone. Don't you think we could do better on all these subjects? And regarding the departure of Mr. Le Cornu on Monday, which reportedly cost your group 2% on the stock market—don't you think, like 70% of French people, that there would be little risk in ending the President's mandate early?
Mr. Chairman, I will address the housing issue because it is very important. Let's not underestimate that France has implemented devices that many countries envy us—the energy performance diagnostic, while imperfect, exists and needs optimization. We need to train auditors rather than eliminate them. The building world is one of long inertia—an artisan gives a ten-year guarantee. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of construction sites. It can't be perfect overnight. Similarly, the extended producer responsibility systems are quite important. We have agreements with the scientific and technical building committee to measure and validate DPE sensors through Saint-Gobain R&D. I believe in maintaining and stabilizing these systems. I think we're at the 16th modification of the DPE. When we remove wall insulation from a thermal renovation diagnostic and recommendation—I've spoken about this 350 times, I can speak about it 360—but when you're removing wall insulation from a diagnostic, it's hard to know what more to say. It's important to maintain common sense and stability. An industrialist needs stability for investments. On new housing, we have financing issues and decentralization issues. The movement Saint-Gobain made—decentralizing—is easier for us than for many others, but giving mayors more authority, addressing tax issues, social housing financing, owner-landlord status—all these need to be stabilized to restore desire for new construction and empower local authorities. On energy renovation, I advocated for a Marshall Plan for renovation starting with social housing, modest incomes—because they account for 70% of greenhouse gas emissions. Like a doctor in an emergency room, you start with the emergency.
Thank you. I now give the floor to the Droite Républicaine group. Mr. Guillaume Le Perz, the floor is yours.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bazin, you head a jewel of our national industry—a company that spans centuries, never stops innovating, and has developed internationally as you highlighted. I witnessed this last June when visiting with a delegation of deputies your R&D center in Shanghai, where the construction techniques of tomorrow are being imagined. The Droite Républicaine group supports reindustrialization through innovative sectors like yours. My questions will focus primarily on competitiveness, with the objective of favoring the installation of production lines or R&D centers. According to you, is it the weight of charges, production levies, or the multiplicity of French norms that most limits our competitiveness? Conversely, what works on the French labor market and contributes to our strength? In your recruitment, do you suffer from the negative image of industry? Do you find qualified people on the French labor market matching your needs? Where do you find people with fewer qualifications to train internally? What administrative barriers slow down the installation or transformation of industrial sites in France that your teams have identified? Is it still possible to innovate in France on R&D? On energy prices—has the evolution of recent years concerned you for the future? Would it threaten jobs or industrial sites? Finally, on the trade war following Donald Trump's second term—what are the consequences for Saint-Gobain? Do you think the EU acts forcefully to defend its interests and industry, or does it miss opportunities to assert itself as China and the US do? Thank you.
Thank you very much. On recruitment, there is no issue. Saint-Gobain and industry have a good image, and our purpose of sustainable construction is very attractive. We hire approximately 5,000 people annually accounting for retirements, with 730,000 hours of training in France, which is quite significant.
