Hello everyone. Thomas here from Frames Magazine, and today I am extremely happy to share with you my conversation with Kazuto Yamaki, the CEO of Sigma. This may be my first interview on the channel with the head of a camera company, but very quickly it became a conversation about much more than products, cameras, and lenses. We speak about photography, about emotion design, about philosophy, and the deeper vision behind Sigma and its cameras. I hope very much you will enjoy my conversation with Kazuto Yamaki.
Kazuto, it's an honor. It's a huge pleasure to have you here on the Frames channel. You know, when I was thinking about this conversation in advance, it always strikes me as something very special because, as the editor of the magazine, usually I talk to photographers themselves, mainly about image making, about the vision, about everything. So, it's actually the very first conversation with a CEO of a camera company. So, it's a special moment, but then I realized that you being a CEO of Sigma, there is also a strong deep photographic soul. I watched some interviews, I read some materials about yourself and maybe this interview will be a bit different. I want to connect with you on this photographic level, on this passion level because I know it's inside you. But first of all, thank you so much for making the time. Where are you connecting from with us today?
I'm visiting New York, Manhattan, where we had the pop-up event. And it's early morning in New York and I'm connecting from here.
Nice, beautiful. So, let's start with a simple question photographer to photographer, because I know you still like to occasionally go out with a camera, you are somewhere there on the streets probably. But if you go out and photograph yourself, what is this camera you love most of all, carrying with you these days? Which is your camera of choice?
Of course, I always carry this Sigma BF camera. This is a camera we launched here a year ago and very simple minimal camera, but easy to use. So, I can focus on the subject, something on the street. So, if I'm interested in something, I can easily capture the image. So, I always enjoy using my own Sigma BF camera.
Okay. So, I was about to ask you, of course, about the BF. You referred to it several times already as the BF, the shortening as beautiful foolishness. So, this beautiful foolishness when you were designing the camera, when you were pre-planning the whole production, the technology, was it already something you were thinking about in terms of what is the soul of this camera? Why beautiful foolishness? What kind of foolishness are you talking about?
Well, the beautiful foolishness has several meanings, double or triple meaning. But let me tell the story behind the development of the BF first. I think it was 2022 or 2021 time frame. I was wondering what the role of the camera for human beings in the future because nowadays the smartphone can create quite good images in terms of quality and people take lots of images with smartphone. So, I was wondering if the camera can survive and also if Sigma can survive in this market. And then after several careful consideration, I concluded that yes, the camera has some important role for human beings. If you have the camera in your hands, it stimulates your mind and tries to find the beautiful face on the street or in the world. So, this kind of device triggers the creative mind of human beings. So, I decided actually then I was motivated to create something unique camera focused for the purpose. So, in order to achieve it, I believed the simple minimal camera that focuses on shooting is the best way. So, I wanted to create the minimal simple camera which may go back to the original spirit of the camera. So, I created a concept for the BF which is called modern camera obscura. So, it's a modern camera, but it goes back to the spirit of the camera obscura, which is the origin of the camera. And so, it is basically a kind of antithesis of the modern cameras. Modern cameras I respect most from other major brands, but the camera evolved a bit too complicated and just focusing on technical development. So, to make such a simple camera, it's a kind of antithesis of the modern cameras. The beautiful foolishness of face written in the book called Book of Tea by Tenshin Okakura or Kakuzo Okakura in early—it was also the antithesis of the time when he wrote the book. It was over 100 years ago in Japan. At the time, it was even today the time of the evolution of capitalism and people thought efficiency or profit only to think about efficiency and profit. And some people start forgetting about the aesthetics of the right. And he believed that the tea ceremony contributes to remind the people on the aesthetic aspect of the right. So, I wanted to use it as a symbolic word of our antithesis attitude toward the modern camera industry.
So, it's interesting you mentioned the smartphones. So, where do you see the main difference in terms of emotional difference maybe because smartphone by definition it's also relatively—when we are taking photos with a smartphone, it's a relatively simple device, right? Point it and so, this kind of simple smartphones can do many things, but the image taking with a smartphone is a relatively simple process, pretty rudimentary. Now, emotionally, when you grab a smartphone or when you grab the BF or any other small photographic camera, what do you think is happening or what is happening in you emotionally? What's the difference? Why grab the camera and not the smartphone? Where is this differentiation here?
You know, if we use the camera, whole process from choosing the camera and the lens is a beginning of the photography. And if we enjoy all process to carefully select the camera and the lens and carefully select the subject to shoot. And then if I see the final result, I remember the whole process and it makes such picture very emotional. So, I think photography is just all about passion and emotion. So, this kind of device we camera contributes to create emotional feel in the photo.
So, do you believe it results in more impactful photographs?
I guess so. I believe so. In the time of film, we use photography for major, for the record of our life, like a record of our family or record of friendship, things like that. And also, other artworks. But, after we had digital imaging, we start using images or photography for visual communication. This part is becoming huge all over the world. And today, many people use photography as a tool of communication. I do not deny the importance of visual communication. And it can be a part of art form, artworks. But, such photography can be depressed or captured by a smartphone. But, when it comes to artworks or record of the family or record of the friendship or record of family life events, should be captured by camera, I believe.
You know, what's interesting, okay, I can tell you honestly, I don't use a Sigma camera right now myself. I use a couple of lenses, the art lenses in the past, and I love them. And I always felt about Sigma, like about a few other companies, maybe, of all the camera companies in the world. But, I always felt it by Sigma, by you, that you are closer to this meaning, to this emotional core when it comes to photography. How do you think about positioning Sigma as a photography company these days? How do you attempt to differentiate Sigma on the market? What's the message? Where do you feel you guys fit in? Which niche?
We have several corporate missions, but one of such missions is to become the most beloved brand in the imaging industry. We want to be loved by our customers, our professional photographers, artists, of course, by employees, and our business partners, or people in the local community. And so, in order to be loved, we have to convey our passion, which is input in our products. So, we cannot be the gigantic company, and which is not my personal life goal. You know, rather, if people see Sigma as the most favorite brand or most beloved, I will be very happy.
So, I feel that, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm not wrong. I mean, there's a very strong line between your personal passion, between you being on the streets of Tokyo, of New York, wherever you are with the camera, and the entire vision of Sigma. Do you feel very excited, still very excited these days when you just think about creating those products, fulfilling this goal, fulfilling this vision? Is there goosebumps when you think about next product, next lens?
Yes, I do. I'm always excited when we develop the new products and make our product every day. Because this product is not just—of course, this is a mass production product. It's a product, but at the same time, I regard our product as a kind of artwork. So, I feel like all our products are like my children. So, making it functional does not satisfy me. So, I like to—of course, I like to make the best performing product, but also, I like to make it very beautiful. And I like to make the product that makes people very emotional.
When you travel yourself, when you visit different places, like now you are in New York, maybe tomorrow in Zurich, in Switzerland. If you are in Zurich, let me know, it would be amazing to meet. How do you experience those places? Arriving somewhere new or a location maybe you know already. Do you experience those places when looking at them mainly as a photographer or are you switching modes very clearly between being a photographer and a CEO, when going to meetings, into those business trips?
That's really good question. But, probably, I always have such two aspects of myself. Always. I cannot consider myself separately as a person of the CEO of the company and as a person who loves photography or art. Because my life always has been with the company. I—when I was born, my father built the corporate building, a company building. And the top of the building was our house. So, right after I was born, my life has been with the company. So, I cannot disconnect myself with the company. So, I always think two ways.
If I remember correctly, in the very beginnings, or maybe when you were growing up, teenager, you were actually somehow into sports. Is it correct? You were interested in sports, and maybe the photography came later. Is it correct?
That's true, but as I said, photography—I was always with photography. As I said, I was living on the top of the building. So, I—we went down to the lower floors. There were offices, but I could see many photography magazines from all over the world on the bookshelf. And in the weekend, I enjoyed watching such magazines from all over the world, not only from Japan, but also America, Europe, China. So, that kind of experience stimulated my mind. But, as a young boy, I did like some sports. So, at that time I was obsessed by sports, but photography has always been with me.
So, how old were you when you started kind of, in some way, actively helping maybe out your father with the company or at the company? When did you get actively involved, actually?
Actually, right after I graduate graduate school in Japan, in Tokyo, I joined Sigma, which was 1995. And then, I'll be working for Sigma 31 years.
So, your father, he founded the company, right? Do you feel today, because you remember his vision, his dreams, do you feel you are continuing along his line? What—
Of course. Of course. You know, I'm just a second generation. So, my role is to take over his vision and the philosophy to the company today. So, you know, if Sigma is a public company or listed company, gigantic listed company, I may behave differently than myself today. But, being the CEO of the family-owned private company, I have some unique decision compared to the floor managers. In the case of the CEO of the big company, they have a huge responsibility to increase the stock price as much as possible, and then to bring the huge profit as much as possible. But, in the case of Sigma, it's a family-owned private company. So, I have to take balance of all aspects of the company because company modern corporate today has huge social responsibilities. So, I need to take care of the employees who are working for Sigma, and also I need to take care of the customers, the people in the local community. I have to take care of the natural environment. So, when I make a decision, some kind of decision, I have to consider all the things. And every time I make decision, it's based on my personal vision and philosophy.
That's beautiful. And I also think we almost feel it in the products because you are really hands-on when it comes to all the operations. You are the headquarters. Also, the place the headquarters of Sigma based in Aizu. The place itself very close to you. I understand where you were growing up. But you also connect the place itself and the character, the atmosphere of the place very much with the company spirit and it's an important connection for you. Can you tell us a little bit more about how does it feel to have the headquarters in Aizu and what does it mean actually that it's so connected to the place?
