Bring in show music, please.
Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on a super sized squawk pod, Jeff Bezos from Amazon to rocket ships to the Washington Post and everything in between. Andrew Ross Sorcin sits down with Bezos at Blue Origin to discuss wealth.
I pay billions of dollars in taxes and it's a per again if people want me to pay more billions, right? Then let's have that debate. Productivity. We live in the wealthiest country in the world. America is the greatest country in the world. We have more entrepreneurial dynamism here than anywhere else in the world. This is the best time to be alive in America.
I've worked with every president since Bill Clinton. And I hope to work with, you know, the next couple of presidents too if they'll have me.
AI and more the world. According to Jeff,
we're in a phase where every experiment is getting funded. The good ideas are getting funded and the bad ideas are getting funded.
That is coming up. It's Wednesday, May 20th. SquawkPod begins right now.
Stand Becky by in 3 2 1. Cue please.
Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawkbox right here on CNBC. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorcin. And uh hi Andrew.
Hey there. Look at that. How are you?
Nice to see you from afar. Is that a rocket ship behind you?
Nice to see you from afar.
Rocket ships set up where we are, I think, in just a moment, but it's uh pretty extraordinary. We've got a big show coming for you in just a little bit.
Andrew, set us up. Tell us what we're all about today.
U so we are Hey, Becky. We are uh here at Blue Origin's Rocket Park. This is along Florida's uh space coast, and this is a huge campus uh where Blue Origin manufactures and tests its new Glenn orbital rockets. also uh the Blue Moon uh lunar landers. Uh the Kennedy Space Center is right next door. And our special guest this morning is Blue Origin founder and of course the founder of Amazon, Jeff Bezos. And uh we're going to talk a lot about space this morning. We'll talk about his plans for the moon and uh future space exploration. But we're also going to talk about so much uh else that's going on in the headlines right now. We're going to talk about wealth in America and wealth inequality and all the wealth taxes and what's happening in New York with uh with with mom dami and what's happening in California and in so many other places. We'll talk about the Washington Post. We're going to talk about Amazon, his relationship with the president. We'll talk of course about the AI revolution. Um his new project Prometheus, which is his AI efforts around robotics. And uh yes, we'll also talk about the economy and whether he sees any comparisons to the.com bubble. He has lived through it all. If there's one person uh who I've want to talk to for a very very long time about all of this and more, it is Jeff Bezos. And we're going to spend a lot of time with him right here on Squawk.
So, I mean, you know, talk about a few things like the Washington Post and the moon. I mean, it just
honestly we're going to go we're going to hit everything. There is so much to discuss with him right now and he is in so many ways at the center of it all. Uh and by the way, there's so much interested in space uh right now. uh SpaceX getting ready to file for uh its IPO. Uh we're all waiting for that filing as well. That's going to have a big impact on the valuation ultimately of uh this company uh here. There's been some reported talk of bringing in outside money for the first time to Blue Origin. Thus far, he's been financing all of that himself. So, there's just there's so many different places that we're going to uh we're going to get into.
I I I feel like I could listen for about four or five hours from that list of things that are going through. So, I feel like it's going to be jam-packed. Um, no matter how long you're talking to him, it's going to be jam-packed to get through all of those topics. Andrew,
we're going to try. We're going to try try our best.
Do you do you think he'll ever say no comment or you feel like he's just ready to to bear his soul today? Uh, Andrew, I think you're going to get a lot.
You know, I think he wants to talk about everything and I think he's uh he's prepared to talk about everything and we're going to try to get into it all all of it. I mean there's just so much uh there's so much going on in terms of just uh the the economic piece of it but there's also the policy and politics piece of it and there's the sort of cultural zeitgeist piece of what's happening with wealth in this country that uh I think we all want to understand the way he feels about it. He's often considered sort of an avatar uh for the wealthiest in a way. His name is almost in the headlines almost every day in that regard. So I think you know we're going to get into all of those all of those component parts of our story this morning. I would like more wealth in the country. But that but that that's just me. But it it is it is nuanced. You're right. Um but but we look but in general let's go with more more wealth.
Andrew remember what and Becky but remember what he said about AI comparing it. Historically the only thing he come up with was electricity something that could be so
Yeah. I mean, look at what how electricity wasn't that him, Andrew, that that said, I think it was
he's talked about it as electricity. He's talked about it as like fire. I mean, talk about something even more basic than that. Um, you know, that it's that that big a deal. But he also, by the way, believes that we can maybe, you know, talk about data centers and the cost of the data centers and everything else. He was probably the first person long before Elon Musk to talk about putting data centers and all of this infrastructure in space. I mean, one of his whole goals with what he's doing here is about putting all of that up there so we can live here. Um, protect and preserve this.
I remember talking to him about this maybe 10 or 15 years ago and I thought, 'Oh my god, that's I I couldn't even fathom uh what he was talking about. It just didn't make any sense.' But here we are. It's uh By the way, we're going to show you some images of this place because the scale of it, guys, is just extraordinary. If you could see it, 3 million square feet here. Um, and the the size of uh these these spaceships that they're building is just is just beyond.
That's what I was going to ask. Is that like a rocket booster right behind you?
That is a rocket booster. And we're going to uh show you. That's where we're going to speak with Jeff. They're setting up the set right there. Uh, but it is just um it is unbelievable. It is unbelievable to behold. I've now been uh here twice and even just to see the growth of it uh from where it was two years ago is it's it's just unbelievable. I can't. There's no other way.
That's what I mean. There's not enough time in the day for all the things that we want to hear from him.
Do you guys remember using payoneses? I mean, I I used to get I used to get a pager. I mean, that was amazing. Look at this thing. Someone can reach me. Call this. So, that that wasn't that long ago for me. So, look at And then remember, I always used to talk about the singularity when these machines know a billion times all human knowledge combined. Maybe we can have a software hardware body that lets us live forever. These data center it's happening. I mean I'm you know probably too late for some of us to live to live. That's why I'm back to going to church on Sunday just just to cover my bases. But um it's just amazing how the these advances what we just talked about as if it's normal, isn't it? Building a data center in in in space.
Kerszswe may have been right about all of it. We'll see.
You're you might do it. You might make it. Uh, and you want to live forever. I do. I do. I just just so I can
Well, we all have our reasons.
New developments displayed across the front page of every newspaper this morning in uh President Trump's settlement agreement with the IRS. A reporter joins us now with more.
In an unprecedented arrangement, the Trump administration has barred itself from pursuing claims against President Trump and his family as part of a $1.8 billion settlement. The protection covers Trump, his family, and related entities from pending tax audits. It raises questions about whether Trump directed the government to award him favorable terms. The settlement stems from a $10 billion lawsuit over leaked tax filings. The Justice Department agreed to finance an anti-weaponization fund with taxpayer money. The fund would compensate alleged victims of law enforcement actions under the Biden administration.
The tax code prohibits the president from directing audits. Trump has long complained about being audited. I think he does things because he can.
Democrats are up in arms. The journal says it's unclear who has standing to challenge this.
Standing is a legal term meaning who has the right to sue. The president is doing this because he can.
Congress could step in, but would need Republican votes.
A Democratic Congress would certainly challenge this.
If a Democratic president takes office in 2029, they could reverse this.
The question is what kind of presidency we want. Congress could wipe this away in the future and allow the IRS to go back.
If he pardons himself, can the IRS go back?
If he pardons himself, they can't go back.
What about the $1.8 billion fund?
It expires at the end of the term. How it will be dispersed is opaque. The vice president said decisions will be case-by-case, but didn't rule out payments to January 6th rioters.
The original sin is the leak of Trump's tax returns.
The $10 billion lawsuit might not have succeeded. The president used his influence to settle.
If the president directs the settlement of his own case, the outcome is sure.
Thanks, Aman.
Coming up on Squawk Pod, the Jeff Bezos of it all. Rockets, the media, politics, and equality. The fourth richest man in the world is next. Politicians use the age-old technique of picking a villain, but that doesn't solve anything.
Welcome back to Squawk Pod from CNBC. We are bringing you now Andrew Ross Sorcin's discussion with Jeff Bezos from Launch Control at Blue Origin's Rocket Park in Florida. Andrew takes things from here.
We are here on the factory floor this morning of Blue Origin with Jeff Bezos. This is remarkable. Of all the people to talk to about everything going on in the country, we want to talk to you. One topic I thought we should start with is the headlines about wealth in America. It's taken a critical turn. What do you think about that right now?
Well, first of all, Andrew, I'm glad you're asking. It's an important topic. I see the same thing you do. It seems different from 10 years ago. It's a tale of two economies: some people are doing well, others are struggling. Politicians use the age-old technique of picking a villain and pointing fingers, but that doesn't solve anything. You need to find root causes and real solutions. So what could you really do? I have some ideas. A nurse in Queens making $75,000 a year pays over $12,000 in taxes. Why is that? The bottom half of income earners pay only 3% of taxes. We can find 3%. We shouldn't be asking that nurse to send money to Washington; they should be sending her an apology. By the way, we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. New York City spends $44,000 per student with poor outcomes. If we ran Amazon that way, packages would take six weeks and cost $100. It's a skills issue. We need competence.
Okay. But then on the other end, should you be paying higher taxes to pay for the 3% component and the debts we have?
It's a perfectly valid policy debate to say we want a more progressive tax system. The wealthy should pay their fair share, whatever that is. But vilification is a distraction. The top 1% already pay 40% of tax revenue. We actually have a spending problem. For example, New York City school system spends $44,000 per student, 30% more than other big cities, but doesn't get better outcomes. If we ran Amazon that way, your packages would take six weeks, cost $100, and have the wrong item. It's a skills issue, just competence.
Let me ask you about great wealth. Elizabeth Warren says people at the top can pay a lower tax rate than I do.
Some people say I don't pay taxes. I pay billions. If people want me to pay more, let's have that debate. But don't pretend that will solve the problem. Double my taxes and it won't help that teacher in Queens. Why is rent expensive? Some blame Airbnb, but it's already outlawed in New York and rents are still high. The real problem is government intervention: we subsidize demand with tax policy and constrain supply with zoning and permitting. Econ 101: prices skyrocket. This is fixable. It's a skills issue.
But the wealthy have extraordinary influence over government policy, over tax, housing, everything.
We have way too much corporate welfare and subsidies. There's too much influence from business and unions. If we can fix that, we should. The tax code is 10,000 pages full of loopholes. That's crony capitalism.
Should people like you advocate to fix it? For example, the buy, borrow, die strategy.
