It's probably better to work with more brilliant, more capable people, even on topics slightly less interesting to you, rather than being surrounded by mediocre people.
And do you think that Italy can be a good environment for someone who can like?
There are fewer places in Italy where that's true than London, but Bending Spoons is one of them. We'll receive about 800,000 applications this year and hire maybe 300, so you're guaranteed to work in exceptional teams. I'd focus more on the quality of the people than the location.
What do you think is going to be the biggest challenge for Bending Spoons in the short and medium term?
Medium to long-term, the people part is very challenging. We rely on amazing teams. Next year we'll achieve revenue per spooner of almost $4 million, 10 times what it was five years ago. We've increased productivity through technology, talent density, and processes. But as we scale, hiring and training great people gets increasingly difficult. Short-term, nothing existential. I invest my energy in what will help us in three to five years. People is one of them.
The other big challenge could be targets to acquire. But we're still a speck in the $2 trillion digital technology industry. Capital could be a bottleneck; we can access debt and equity to grow faster, but we're profitable and don't necessarily need to raise capital.
And last question, what about the opportunities? Maybe it's not disclosable, but...
We have a model that makes a ton of sense. We want to do more of the same, but much better, bigger, faster, stronger. We're not a startup trying to figure out if it should exist. We need to improve each component: be twice as productive, optimize user TV, run businesses with even smaller teams, strengthen our culture. But those are improvements on existing pieces, not existential threats.
Thank you very much. I think we can open up for a Q&A.
Thank you very much. Lovely panel talk. I'm feeling inspired. You posted something on LinkedIn about jumping off a cliff and assembling the airplane. During your Bending Spoons startup journey, what are some of the biggest challenges you've had to overcome, and is there any time you felt like you couldn't do it anymore?
I don't remember reposting that, but I agree with the metaphor. When you're struggling, it's easier to overcome if you know others are struggling too. We've had plenty of difficulties. I have days I'm down and insecure. It's normal to expect that. One specific moment: after shutting down Evertale, we started Bending Spoons with $40,000. We wanted to acquire and transform companies but thought we needed more capital. We spent months cold-calling and emailing thousands of companies for software development work, but nobody hired us except one relative who gave us €10,000. After three years of working 100-hour weeks and failing, I had a breakdown and cried at my desk. But my co-founder supported me. That period strengthened our friendship. You need to be a bit fatalistic and remember you're privileged. Through those moments, your emotional resilience levels up. Being an entrepreneur is mostly hard work, stress, and uncertainty. It's a vocation, not recommended otherwise.
You said that you should build your reviews based on what you should pay. It looks like you fix those limitations in your company by choosing the right people. But at a starting level, a company's limitation is people. What are your limitations and how do you fix those flaws with the people that surround you?
It's about continuous improvement, kaizen. Focus on the next step. We were five people, mediocre at everything, no money, no customers. We asked which dimension we could be substantially better at tomorrow, in the cheapest way. We took that step. Amazon started with selling books online. Have big dreams but find manageable intermediate steps. As you progress, your dreams become more concrete and may shift. Don't overthink it; it's more important to be moving in a promising direction and taking each step well.
How did you go from that situation of despair to your first investment? How did you grow to that?
Our burn rate was very low. After failing to find clients, my co-founders developed some apps that made a couple hundred thousand euros. By early 2014 we had enough capital. The first acquisition cost only €10,000. In hindsight, we should have started with acquisitions immediately. We turned that €10,000 into €20,000 and never looked back. There was good stuff too, not just despair.
