Back
Shurick Agapitov
Founder and CEO, Xsolla (Xsolla Inc.)

Introducing X.LA with Shurick Agapitov

🎥 Apr 07, 2023 📺 Metaverse Insider ⏱ 21m
At The Metaverse Insider, we had the pleasure of interviewing the founder of both Xsolla and X.LA – Shurick Agapitov. X.LA is a ...
Watch on YouTube

About Shurick Agapitov

Shurick Agapitov, founder and CEO of Xsolla, released a book titled *Once Upon Tomorrow: Harnessing the New Opportunities the Metaverse Creates* in March 2024. In interviews promoting the book, Agapitov described it as presenting his vision for a "new internet" that some people call the metaverse, which he characterized as a 3D, video game-like iteration of the internet. He stated that he wrote the book to inspire the next generation of internet entrepreneurs and to encourage readers to find opportunities for themselves in what he called the "3D internet." Agapitov also discussed his earlier venture, X.LA, which he described as a platform intended to facilitate revenue distribution for intellectual property creators and owners, allowing contributors to receive a percentage of sales rather than a one-time payment. In various interviews from 2022 to 2024, Agapitov elaborated on his definition of the metaverse, stating that it is not necessarily about virtual reality or specific platforms like Roblox or Fortnite, but rather a new internet built with video game technologies. He expressed the view that the metaverse will consist of "meta sites" — 3D spaces developed by video game developers for brands and intellectual properties. Agapitov also commented on the role of large companies, saying he would not be surprised if Facebook (Meta) fails within four to eight years, and noted that the inability to create a currency that governments allow for transactions is a "deal breaker." He emphasized that he believes people in the future will work more for protocols and themselves than for corporations.

Source: AI-verified profile updated from Shurick Agapitov's recent appearances. Browse all interviews →

Transcript (13 segments)
J
Josh0:05
To the Metaverse Insiders interview series. My name is Josh, and in today's episode we cover part one of our conversation with Shurick Agapitov, the founder of Xsolla and XLA. Thank you very much for joining us today. Really appreciate your time. Can you please provide us with a brief introduction to your background and how it is you ended up forming XLA?
S
Shurick Agapitov0:28
My name is Shurick Agapitov and I started the company which sells digital items inside video games when I was 21. In 2009 I moved to the United States and the company called Xsolla. I tried to raise money in 2009 and I failed, something happened in 2008. So it's not, yeah. And I turned out owning 100% of the company. So today we sell a lot of in-game items for many, many online games and it's a successful business. I decided not to sell it and keep it forever. I really enjoy video game economy and playing video games, so digital items is fun. But I saw this opportunity after Zuckerberg did this and he basically distributed the dream that many video game developers have and are very well aware of, called metaverse. And metaverse I think become a household name. We don't have a lot of experience, not many people experience it yet, but it's definitely everybody heard about the metaverse. So I thought this is the time for me to start the XLA and explore metaverse opportunities. To become the CEO of Xsolla and XLA, keep doing really well, selling digital items and growing very rapidly with the video games industry especially during the course of COVID which accelerated us all. And I spent almost one year whiteboarding and shaping my thoughts how the metaverse could look like, and I think I have a clear vision. And I've started a business with some prototypes later this year just for demonstration purposes. And I haven't, I don't have a lot of things to show you, but it's already beautiful in my mind.
J
Josh2:41
That's absolutely fine. Well, it's good that we can have this conversation so you can tell us about everything that's coming and also the most promise that you think it will bring to the industry. So of course, off the back of the success of your previous company Xsolla that effectively revolutionized the way that gamer economy works and the way that developers now deal with their games, so with the new space of metaverse gaming which hasn't quite yet been established yet, do you intend to bring a similar sort of motive towards this new era of gaming?
S
Shurick Agapitov3:10
I choose to believe that a lot of the new technologies and innovations are coming from video games. For example, artificial intelligence exists or self-driving cars exist because of the company called NVIDIA exists, and NVIDIA exists because of video games. And if you think about the powerful computers and powerful iPhones, we have them first and foremost because people enjoy playing video games. There's no reason to buy office applications on powerful computers. I don't know if you pick virtual reality as an innovation, before a surgeon is going to do surgery with a virtual headset, most likely somebody will use it to kill monsters or with white sailors. A lot of innovations are coming from video games. And blockchain mass adoption most likely will happen because of video games, because there are two billion people playing video games, they have experience with digital items. And if those digital items are on the blockchain, that's the game users who are going to overcome the many obstacles, whatever imperfections, and learn how to use these items. So what I'm trying to say to conclude: metaverse is not necessarily video games, but it's a new internet built with video game technologies. So it's an internet that looks like a video game as a 3D space or 3D spatial space, and it's not necessarily delivered through VR. Even if the websites look like a video game on the flat screen, I believe that's already the metaverse. Which is common anyway. 20% of video game technology and developing video games is getting easier and easier because of the tools available right now, such as Unreal Engine and Unity, which are available almost for free compared to what it was 10 or 20 years ago.
J
Josh5:48
That's very interesting you say that, because as we know the metaverse is such a vast concept and being an aspect of Web 3, and we very much know that gaming is not the only aspect of this. However, as you said, I do agree that gaming is going to be one of the primary drivers as to what allows the metaverse to truly take off and bring in the audience's interest. So I'm an avid gamer myself, you know, and I really enjoy the worlds of Elder Scrolls and World of Warcraft, and in their own right you could argue that these are actually micro metaverses with their own economy and social events. So it's very interesting to see us going to expand into what you're saying, as well as with all the hardware, the VR, the XR, this will eventually be implemented into gaming properly, not as it is now. But I do also understand that this is tricky for many individuals due to the fact that it can cause slight motion sickness. But I do find it very interesting what you say with these 2D screens. This is most definitely going to be the way that everything initially takes off.
S
Shurick Agapitov6:52
You mentioned one of the devices I think which will be really cool to navigate the 3D web, it's a cave. Google it, it's already here. It's basically big spherical projections and you can see being there in a virtual world without virtual reality glasses, it takes your motion and so on. So I believe websites, which today many of them look like a flat book with hyperlinks, in the future you're going to have a spacious, 3D space you can walk through. I like to call them metasites. I believe I invented the word metasite. And there are a few gaming technologies that could enable that, like WebGL or cloud gaming, and it could be delivered across concepts for both technologies. In the future, you can go to Adidas.com and it's going to be a portal you can go through and experience the brand as if you're inside the Adidas world or inside a video game. And if you see Unreal Engine experience which is photorealistic, real-time rendering, those could be delivered even if you don't have a gaming PC. If you have fast internet, using cloud gaming technology, you can serve those metasites. And instead of the links we have in books or hyperlinks, I imagine it will be some sort of portal like in Marvel movies. You walk through and end up in different locations. And it's important that all of those metasites, they're like an internet, not one virtual world like Roblox or Fortnite. Those I call virtual worlds, there are no portals between them. But once you have portals from Fortnite to Minecraft and you can transfer items through those portals, that's when I think we can say metaverse is here. Which, from my view, is just a new internet, the next iteration of the internet. There were a few iterations of internet before: internet of things is totally different, with WAP internet if you recall, then mobile web, which was internet of apps. So with many iterations before, I think the metaverse is just this 3D video game-like internet. And my definition of the metaverse, it's not mine, I borrow it but I really adopt it, is metaverse is when you have virtual spaces, virtual items, and users who can carry the items from one space to another. And there are opportunities on these three verticals for businesses. You can be in the business of creating virtual spaces or metasites, think about game developers becoming the website developers of metasites. If you think about virtual items, all those brands out there, we already understand people value digital items. There's going to be abundance of those digital items, and I think every brand wants to have digital items. People who create those digital items, NFT is just a database or standard which makes those items tradable or sellable if the creator wants them to be. Or it can be centralized and achieved through some sort of open API with filters and permissions. But NFT is just a database. And the last opportunity is about the users, think about the border business and how people carry the items, with login, avatar systems, backpack, all of that, and keychain. So those three business opportunities I think are common, and how to make them all together is the new internet. That's what some people call the metaverse.
J
Josh12:23
Absolutely, it's quite a phenomenal concept to comprehend. Even bringing all that together to make every potential gaming universe interchangeable where you can just jump into all these different worlds. I know that can actually raise quite a few issues in the world of gaming concerning how they'll maintain the essence of what the game actually represents. So can you highlight what are some of the major challenges in creating this course into the metaverse?
S
Shurick Agapitov12:48
What I described, I don't want to call them video games, I want to call them metasites. The reason is, video games are an experience, think about a theme park, you go and get entertained. So what I'm trying to say is imagine you're creating a brand, let's say Restoration Hardware, the furniture store. You go to the store and you have the feel of the brand, that's a very deep relationship between you and the brand, much deeper than just surfing through the flat web. So flat web pages have massive reach, you can create an online catalog of furniture and millions of people go through it. But in a metasite, you may have much deeper relations with consumers, telling the brand story in an interactive way. So those virtual worlds are not necessarily games, they're not going to be like adventure games. They are going to be storytelling experiences, and that could be a brand story or educational story or social story. They look like they're built with video game technology, but not necessarily for entertainment purposes. It's hard to predict what they'll become, because it's hard to predict what iPhone apps would be before the iPhone was released. We couldn't predict Uber, we definitely didn't create the iPhone to have Uber or Instagram. Uber and Instagram were created because of the new capabilities: higher resolution camera and geolocation capabilities.
J
Josh15:07
Fantastic! I like the way that you've actually turned the phrase metasites. I've seen it on the feature on your website, and yeah, it's very clear. It's actually very interesting to build into that concept because, correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like you're not necessarily making these games but you're gamifying experiences using the in-game technology to make it more accessible. I find this brilliant. So you've also got another feature as well which I'd like you to address a little bit, called a metamor. What does this entail exactly?
S
Shurick Agapitov15:36
So, those metasites, in order to make them decentralized, the economy of this metaverse is not only creating the opportunity to create a new look for the internet, but it's also a new business model. Today, virtual worlds are hosted by one provider, all the user-generated content in Fortnite or Roblox is created and owned by one entity. So I believe those metasites should be like websites developed by video game developers' technology, but instead of games, they develop brand stories and theme parks related to certain IPs. I want those metasites to be created with a different business model. It's like the old Hollywood model: a bunch of people come together, there's a producer with a creative vision, a production director, a video game developer team who can execute that vision, and a list of artists who contribute to bring the metasite to life, maybe with a sponsor, a DAO, or an NFT collection that can invest in the production. But I want it permissionlessly, and they publish on their own domain name. Xsolla will have some highlighted working links, but we want them hosted on their own domain. And the idea is to have revenue share on blockchain for everybody who contributes to the metasite. Think about a metasite like a movie: each one is created with a group of people, and a second movie with a slightly different group. People who like to work with each other tend to create new series of projects, but they are all independent on their own. Revenue share on blockchain would allow us to create this form of corporation for metasite producers and creators. So Metamor is a place where we want to have people find projects and working co-creators in exchange for royalties. Think about it like freelance job posts, but instead of pay, you have the opportunity to get credits and points meaning a percent of the sale. Blockchain guarantees allow internet strangers to cooperate with each other.
J
Josh19:14
Fantastic. I'll just elaborate on how you're going to help this happen, because I personally believe blockchain technology and high-performance cloud computing to be essential in order to allow all this to actually occur in the first place. Where do you stand on this and what do you believe to be the most important technologies to help propel this into the concepts that we all envision?
S
Shurick Agapitov19:36
I think that every technology I mentioned already here. The biggest challenges right now are coordination and alignment. If I would build a company except if we call XLA, if those metasites were to be a company, it's much easier to build, I've done this before, it's centralized. But I naively attempt to create XLA as a hub for people to come together and build this, because I don't want to own it, it's impossible to own the internet. The biggest challenges are coordination outside of traditional corporations, I would say.
J
Josh20:27
Well, as you were saying, decentralization in this is quite crucial. It's very hard to just own the entirety of it because it's effectively a community-based project. In layman's terms for me, enterprise would be easier, it's easy to me, but it's the wrong direction. Thank you very much. Well, that's a wrap for part one of our conversation with Shurick Agapitov, founder of Xsolla and XLA. Be sure to stay tuned for weekly updates in the industry and content covering all things metaverse. Follow The Metaverse Insider on Twitter and LinkedIn, and visit metaverseinsider.tech for all our content. Thank you for joining us until next time.