CEOInterviews.AIEntrevue avec Alain Bouchard, fondateur et président d'Alimentation Couche-Tard

I

Interviewer0:01

Alain Bouchard, hello.

A

Alain Bouchard0:03

Hello, Mr. Roy.

I

Interviewer0:04

It's a big visit, you're making yourself rare. It's rare that we see you in interviews, eh? You don't like it too much?

A

Alain Bouchard0:11

Well, I don't like it that much, and I'm no longer there in my life. I travel a lot. I love meeting our people, but I also love traveling, seeing the world.

I

Interviewer0:20

The life of Alain Bouchard would make a good movie scenario. Fired from the Perrette convenience store chain in the mid-70s, he went bite by bite to consume everything that moves in this industry. Couche-Tard, 7 jours, Perrette, Provi-Soir, he and his group were going to swallow all their competitors.

Tonight, from 0 to 50 billion dollars in revenue, the exceptional rise of Couche-Tard.

In 40 years, Alimentation Couche-Tard has become a multinational operating in 26 countries under the Circle K banner. 15,000 stores, 124,000 employees.

Alain Bouchard can enter one of his convenience stores as well here in the United States, Mexico, Egypt, Ireland, or Hong Kong. Despite the Couche-Tard owl, the sun never sets on his empire.

Is your desire to always be bigger still there?

A

Alain Bouchard1:28

It is still there, certainly. At the moment we're talking, we're working on other big projects. Yes, I don't want to stop because I do it for our people. Our people love to see us grow, love to profit with us. And it's an absolutely extraordinary motivation.

I

Interviewer1:50

Of the 15,000 convenience stores he owns, nearly 11,000, the vast majority, are also gas stations. Would the giant have less solid ground than before? How to prepare for oil decline? Alain Bouchard already has his slogan in pocket.

A

Alain Bouchard2:09

In the United States, we have a concept: FFF, for 'fresh food fast'.

I

Interviewer2:13

To 'fresh and fast food', beyond the wrapped sandwiches of convenience stores.

A

Alain Bouchard2:19

That's our future.

I

Interviewer2:20

Food is your future?

A

Alain Bouchard2:23

Everywhere, everywhere, it needs more and more expansion.

I

Interviewer2:26

Are you thinking about the other period coming in 10, 15, 20 years, post-gasoline or, in any case, when gasoline will decline? How do you think about that in your head?

A

Alain Bouchard2:42

Well, we started this reflection a few years ago in Copenhagen to see how much time we had to transform. We're talking about transformation here because obviously when gasoline decreases, which is starting, I think we've reached the maximum in 2019 for us in our sector, not total oil, but for us. 2019 was pretty much the max year we could sell per site. So now it's starting to stabilize. Will it maintain or decrease? I believe, my reading is that the maximum has been reached.

I

Interviewer3:22

And how do we change the business model? Because your current business model relies a lot on gasoline sales.

A

Alain Bouchard3:32

A lot, a lot. Yes, it's very important for us. In fact, we are transforming with the market that is transforming itself, in the sense of electric recharges. We have the advantage, us, of being in Norway. Norway for us is our laboratory where we test a lot. In Norway, we are the largest retailer with recharges on our sites. We also have recharges in residences. We have several thousands of residents who have our equipment.

I

Interviewer4:02

You're going to equip the world, people who want charging stations?

A

Alain Bouchard4:11

Exactly.

I

Interviewer4:13

Are you bringing that here to Quebec, elsewhere in the world?

A

Alain Bouchard4:19

It's still a program under study. We really need to understand how we can function because we talk a lot about artificial intelligence currently, and all that is linked with the electrical consumption of people at home. How we can make them save money in addition to coming to recharge at our place and using the recharge for their car at home? So...

I

Interviewer4:52

Because you, people used to come, in about three-quarters of your establishments, to fill up, stop, buy chips, soda. If they don't come to fill up, they have to come for something. Does that worry you, still?

A

Alain Bouchard5:12

Well, in fact, we have many clients who come to buy products, who don't come to fill up, who come either on foot or with their car, park, buy products and leave. It's not always the same transaction or the same objective. Many people come to fill up and don't enter the store. The majority, in fact, put the card in the pump...

I

Interviewer5:36

And don't enter anymore.

A

Alain Bouchard5:38

Don't enter the store.

I

Interviewer5:42

Which is not good for you.

A

Alain Bouchard5:44

So, it's not the same... well, it's not the same visit.

I

Interviewer5:48

But you have, when you close your eyes, you have what, 10, 15, 20 years with the current model approximately, and after, can the empire remain as strong otherwise?

A

Alain Bouchard5:59

Well, there will first be a consolidation. Understand that combustion cars are here for a very long time. In Norway, for example, more than 80% of cars sold in the last 2 or 3 years are electric or hybrid. And our volumes are still very important, and we are starting to decline this year. So, it's very recent, even though they started selling many electric cars more than 10 years ago. So, it's long, the cycle. Therefore, there is a consolidation before there is an extinction, so to speak. It will take a lot of time, but yes, it will happen. So, we must prepare, we must transform, we must reorganize our businesses to sell other things, we must attract clients differently.

I

Interviewer7:00

For a long time, Alain Bouchard was looked down upon by Quebec Inc, except by one person, Pierre Péladeau, who invited him to join his board of directors. Mr. Péladeau even predicted that Bouchard would surpass him in business.

A

Alain Bouchard7:19

Very, very important. Note well, very, very important.

I

Interviewer7:22

He has in fact surpassed everyone. Alimentation Couche-Tard was worth this month, approximately, 60 billion dollars. With his 12%, that is to say more than 6 billion, that makes him the richest person in Quebec. At the beginning, you were looked down upon, Alain Bouchard. In the 80s...

A

Alain Bouchard7:43

Ha! ha! ha! yes. Yes, from very high.

I

Interviewer7:46

It was convenience store economy, people said: 'My God, that... we're going to waste money.' But today, it's more than a revenge. You've proven that when you're perseverant, you can make it.

A

Alain Bouchard7:59

In fact, my dream at the time was to hear people say: 'Well, I'm going to Couche-Tard' rather than to the convenience store, which is the common name of our industry, which is correct too, but 'I'm going to Couche-Tard'. And we're there. We're there with Circle K, our worldwide brand, and Couche-Tard here in Quebec. So, it's not a revenge as a great satisfaction because in cocktails, when people... I told them what I did, they tried to talk to someone else, so...

I

Interviewer8:35

Yes, yes, people snubbed you.

A

Alain Bouchard8:39

Yes, yes, a lot.

I

Interviewer8:42

Bay Street, the financiers snubbed you. The Bank of Montreal, at one point, they didn't accompany you. You went with the National Bank of Quebec. And it's also the revenge of francophones, in a way.

A

Alain Bouchard8:56

Ah, perhaps. For me, my satisfaction was to build, to create something solid with my history, with my father. It was so me to do something big and solid. There was nothing scientific in it, but it was really present every day.

I

Interviewer9:15

He was 9 years old when his father went bankrupt. The family lost everything and left for the North Shore. From this event, Alain Bouchard retained two vital lessons for the future. Unlike his father, he would always want to be well surrounded. And second fundamental discovery: learning to love nature, especially wood and fishing. You saw your father fall in business at age 9. That was significant. And we have the impression, Alain Bouchard, that it's your main driver, it's to avenge your father as well.

A

Alain Bouchard9:55

A bit of all that. Again, 'vengeance' is a big word. But it's more to realize. My father had a dream to realize something good, what he had done, but circumstances made him lose everything, not for lack of effort. So, for me, it was to make sure to be well surrounded. Because that's what he lacked, to be well surrounded. For me, that was my motto for a long time, and I was very lucky. We have four founders in this company. Réal Plourde, Richard Fortin, and Jacques D'Amour, truly... they are friends. We go fishing together, we go on outings together. So, they're not just business partners, they've become great friends.

I

Interviewer10:49

And is it, just, the ownership of Couche-Tard, the control I should say, of Couche-Tard, going to remain in Quebec? Or is there always a danger of being taken over?

A

Alain Bouchard11:01

Well, it would be quite difficult to buy Couche-Tard. It would show at 80, 90 billion, so it's not easy to buy Couche-Tard. And it's a business where it takes great expertise, even if one might think it's simple, to manage a proximity store, it's very complex in quantity.

I

Interviewer11:29

So, we're safe?

A

Alain Bouchard11:32

It would take something that I wouldn't control, but I don't see it.

I

Interviewer11:40

Because it's an empire. It's not exaggerated, in your step, to say that it's an empire that will remain under Quebec control.

A

Alain Bouchard11:49

We can say that, yes. We can say that. I can't control the aspirations of shareholders. My partners, we have an agreement that we want to stay together, but we're all aging, so it's the families.

I

Interviewer12:05

You say: 'We continue to buy, we continue to join people.' You wanted to buy a very big bite, Carrefour, in France.

A

Alain Bouchard12:40

In fact, I don't thank at all... Mr. Macron for having acted as he did. For us, it was very thought out, this approach. We had an agreement with the people of Carrefour. The deal was done.

I

Interviewer12:54

25 billion.

A

Alain Bouchard12:55

We had to do the due diligence, we had to go meet the government, but there were leaks. We learned from France that confidentiality is not... it's not like what we see here in America, where the rules are very strict. There, everyone talks. And it came out prematurely, very prematurely. So, it was a very beautiful project. It was an extraordinary project. My plan was to consolidate large surfaces in the world, not in Europe, in the world. So, Carrefour would have been our starting point.

I

Interviewer13:40

I see it there, I saw it in your eyes, what animated you, and you're still saying: 'It should have been done.' Is it possible one day?

A

Alain Bouchard13:54

Not really, not really. There are timings in acquisitions. There are timings in business. There are rationales that happen, which when that timing is passed, it's over. So, in that sense, it's over.

I

Interviewer14:09

It will be something else.

A

Alain Bouchard14:11

We move on to something else, yes.

I

Interviewer14:13

There will be something else. Because you said it earlier, the fear of being too big, is that something you have?

A

Alain Bouchard14:23

No, not at all, not at all. Ha! ha! No. I don't have that fear.

I

Interviewer14:29

You have established, put in place a culture there. That is fascinating, in the book, where you say: 'Employees must be able to take responsibility, take risks, have a spirit of initiative, not blindly follow hierarchical rules.' For you, it's not a detail, it's fundamental.

A

Alain Bouchard14:53

It's very important since day one. In fact, it's a question of trust in human beings. And it's quite simple. I look at what's above the shoulders, the person I'm talking to, how they think, how they act, what are their motivations, their values. And generally, people who come to work every day, they want to perform, they want to be in an environment where they have fun, they want to realize themselves. They don't just want to take their salary at the end of the week. It's quite rare. Maybe at the government, but in any case, not with us, not with us. And for that, when people think like me, well, we make sure it happens. It's simple as a principle, difficult to apply, but it works. I learned the word in English late in my life, 'empowerment', responsibility, empowering people.

I

Interviewer15:56

To give them power, it's a bad translation, but that's exactly it.

A

Alain Bouchard16:02

Yes, yes!

I

Interviewer16:04

To give them power, then they feel better at work. But that means the boss, so you, ultimately, you must be tolerant of error.

A

Alain Bouchard16:16

Of course, of course. I had an employee that I accompanied in death a few years ago, Robert. Robert who came to work for us and who made mistakes. And then: 'Robert, listen, there, you understand, what you did here, there, it can't work.' 'Listen, Alain, I was wrong, it won't happen again.' 'Alright.' That, I love to hear that. That, there, it's perfect. 'Continue, Robert, you're doing a good job, and it's perfect.'

I

Interviewer16:48

How to get through the labor shortage, as a big boss, what do we do?

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Alain Bouchard16:54

That's terrible. It's very, very difficult. The pandemic exacerbated that problem. It was really, and it still is, an important problem for us, less difficult than other companies because we have a very strong culture, but it's not sufficient. We are in a sector where we can't pay extraordinary salaries. We enable careers, we open horizons for our people to progress within the company, which helps us a lot. But it's not sufficient.

I

Interviewer17:30

What do we do? Do you cross paths with the prime minister, ministers, what do you tell them? What do we do? What can we do?

A

Alain Bouchard17:41

Well, for here in Quebec, I think the problem is more severe because we've reduced the number of inputs. We have fewer immigrants. Whether we like it or not, the population is aging. I understand that we'd like to have salaries of 60,000, 70,000 everywhere, but that's not the reality. If we don't face reality, we have a real problem.

I

Interviewer18:06

So, you say to Mr. Legault: 'Loosen up a bit.' 'Open the doors a bit.'

A

Alain Bouchard18:10

Of course.

I

Interviewer18:12

Open the doors a bit. And we can francize them.

A

Alain Bouchard18:18

Well yes, we can francize them. We do it constantly. We give courses to our people much more than other types of businesses.

I

Interviewer18:28

But those who say, on the contrary, those who say: 'Well, business leaders, it's sure...' And we hear the chamber of commerce repeating that all the time, they want more immigrants because they want, excuse the terrible expression, but they want 'cheap labor', they want low-cost labor. What do you answer to that?

A

Alain Bouchard18:45

Well, that's not it at all. We want labor... Point. Ha! ha! ha! Point, there. No 'cheap labor'. We train our people, we give them career opportunities. Come on! It's absolutely ridiculous.

I

Interviewer18:55

Mr. Bouchard, you are... sometimes you are the first, sometimes you are the second, the richest Quebecer. It fascinates people. Has it changed your life to be that rich? Or in fact, I have the impression that you work almost like you worked before. I mean, what does it change?

A

Alain Bouchard19:18

Well, it would be pretentious to say that it hasn't changed my life, to the contrary of pretentious, I don't know, in any case. Yes, it's too humble. You are free. Yes, yes. In fact, it has changed, obviously, but I don't need that much, in the sense that... we eat three times a day, we sleep in one bed at a time. What it has changed is much the travels. For me, travels, that has changed a lot. I can travel, I can go where I want, see the world. For me, that has changed a lot. But apart from that, not really.

I

Interviewer19:58

You don't have the taste for luxury. You don't have yachts, castles in Spain, you...

A

Alain Bouchard20:06

No, no, I don't have that, and it doesn't really interest me. I... I have the taste to go to a place, I pay for a nice hotel. And you have a foundation. Yes, ah! Very proud of our foundation.

I

Interviewer20:22

For cerebral palsy. Your son suffers from cerebral palsy.

A

Alain Bouchard20:28

Yes.

I

Interviewer20:30

That, I imagine, kept you from taking off from the real earth, from the real reality.

A

Alain Bouchard20:34

To keep me grounded. We just came from a two-week trip with him, Jonathan. He is... he is formidable. Really, there, I adore him, my son. If I had a pill tomorrow to give him to make his disability disappear, I don't think I would do it because it wouldn't be doing him a service. He is so happy, that child. Child, he is 45 years old now. And he makes me happy and... selfishly. And he is a child who... he has a mild intellectual disability. So, he has very good reasoning. He brings us back to earth constantly. In any case, me, he brought me back a lot. So, Jonathan, it's... it's one of our missions, obviously, for the Foundation, intellectual disability, and the arts. We give a lot in the arts too. We love to give, but to give in the sense with... a way to... to deliver something... to deliver a performance. Not to give without looking. So, many great family foundations are there now. We give, but we must see what is done with the money.

I

Interviewer22:02

Mr. Bouchard, we're going to go next to... next to here.

A

Alain Bouchard22:06

Yes.

I

Interviewer22:07

To see a Couche-Tard.

A

Alain Bouchard22:09

We'll do that.

I

Interviewer22:15

Welcome to you. You sometimes enter incognito, does that happen?

A

Alain Bouchard22:21

It happens to me. It happens to me, but... Sometimes I'm recognized, but less and less, I'm not recognized.

K

Karine22:29

Hello.

A

Alain Bouchard22:30

Hello.

I

Interviewer22:32

Hello. How are you, Mr. Bouchard?

A

Alain Bouchard22:34

Pleasure to see you again, Karine.

I

Interviewer22:37

So, when you enter, your eyes look everywhere, I imagine. You inspect...

A

Alain Bouchard22:40

First, the people. I always start... First, the people. I always start with the people because they are the ones who make things happen. But then, obviously, it's the merchandise, how people move around.

I

Interviewer22:51

And from the beginning, you, it was something important, it's how we arrange the stores. We don't put anything anywhere. It was like an obsession, almost, with you.

A

Alain Bouchard23:02

Yes, because I lived in the stores, first. I started, for Perrette, in the stores. I saw, observed how customers move in the stores, so... how they consume, put a product there. I did a lot, a lot of experimentation, so we continued to do that.

I

Interviewer23:18

You put up shelves, you, for real.

A

Alain Bouchard23:21

A lot, a lot of shelves, yes, yes. Take down aisles, rethink, do we put this this way, that way? How will people supply themselves from us? How will we attract their eye for impulse sales? Impulse is still very important in our business.

I

Interviewer23:41

And when we say 'there are no small savings' or 'there are no...', how do you make money? By selling a lot? By negotiating with suppliers?

A

Alain Bouchard23:50

Well, both. First, it's a business of pennies, it's cents.

I

Interviewer23:54

It's a business of pennies, that's what I mean.

A

Alain Bouchard23:58

It's a business of pennies, it's not a... a business of dollars, there, immense. It becomes dollars because we sell 70 billion a year, in pennies. And the advantage we have is the surface. Given that it's a limited surface, well, it allows us to choose. Well, here, we can't take everything, so if you want to be there...

I

Interviewer24:23

Lower your price. But what makes you, Mr. Bouchard, have succeeded and that other chains, and there have been many, have failed? Why you, it worked so well?

A

Alain Bouchard24:32

It's the proximity with our people. The only real reason is our values, the company culture. All that, well, it sums up with our people. When we are close to our people, it's hard to fail. It's very hard. You have to be bad, you have to be very bad not to succeed when you talk to your people and listen to them. Especially when you listen to them. Talking to them is one thing, but listening, that has a lot of value. So, it's... Again, it's a simple principle. But applying it is not always easy. People who... who make themselves big balloons, they become bigger than the ball, and that... that influences them negatively. You must be humble. Humility is a beautiful quality.

I

Interviewer25:31

And you embody that. Because you are very big, we'll say it. And we see it, you enter a store, you have the passion for detail, the passion for people, it's not... you're not on another planet, you.

A

Alain Bouchard25:47

No, no, because I don't think I can go there, and it doesn't really interest me. But our planet here pleases me a lot.

I

Interviewer25:53

Hello, Marie-France. It looks very good, your food, because it works, eh!

A

Alain Bouchard26:05

It works a lot, yes.

I

Interviewer26:08

The new coffee machines, is it... better than the old ones? It's a pleasure, Andrew.

A

Andrew26:13

It really pleases me.

I

Interviewer26:15

Do you like it here?

A

Andrew26:16

Yes, I love it. It's the best store here.

I

Interviewer26:19

It's moving, eh!

A

Andrew26:20

It's moving, there are people all the time, we never get bored.

I

Interviewer26:22

Nice to meet you, Ted. How are you doing? The English, the French, tell me about that. Do you have difficulty... we were talking about labor shortage earlier, that your employees speak good French everywhere?

A

Alain Bouchard26:34

Yes, yes, yes.

I

Interviewer26:35

Because the...

A

Alain Bouchard26:37

We always start with French.

I

Interviewer26:40

That is... yes. Except your big boss, you didn't let him learn French.

A

Alain Bouchard26:46

Well, because I needed him to grow the company. The pragmatic side. To take care of... growth. Because growing by acquisition is a great challenge. If I had insisted, what he would have done, probably that there are some acquisitions we wouldn't have been able to do. His role was much that too.

I

Interviewer27:06

You told him: 'Take care of acquisitions, and French...' But for employees at the cash register, it's a policy everywhere, the Couche-Tards. We're talking about Montreal because elsewhere, it's obvious, but they must speak French.

A

Alain Bouchard27:24

Of course, of course. Not, but you say 'of course', but there are businesses where it's not the case. Hmm... not with us. We must stay proud and... Well, come on! We have... we must respect ourselves. That's it. We must respect ourselves, Mr. Roy. For us, language is very important. In our offices, in Laval, it's French all the time. There are many people. We have... we hit the... No, but I was going to say: for you, it's a joy. Ah yes, I love it! To see that, it rolls... It wasn't planned like that. (laughs)

I

Interviewer27:54

Mr. Bouchard, thank you. Good... You will continue to take care of this closely all the time.

A

Alain Bouchard28:02

All the time, all the time. I was talking with my wife recently, and she said to me: 'You'll never be able to stop, Alain.' I said: 'Well, I'm going to decrease, there. 73 years old...' 'Well, she says, you won't be able to.' 'You won't be able?' She's right.

I

Interviewer28:24

Thank you very much, Mr. Bouchard.

A

Alain Bouchard28:27

Thank you, thank you.

I

Interviewer28:28

It was a pleasure.

A

Alain Bouchard28:29

Well, it really pleases me. I am very happy to have accepted.