How Columbia Sportswear Stands Out in a Crowded Market | Problem Solvers

Running a business means solving problems. I tell you how the smartest entrepreneurs do it. Hi, I'm Jason Feifer, editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine and this is Problem Solvers. I was just flipping around on YouTube or whatever as you do and I came across this video that stopped me cold cuz it was just so fun and unusual. It was the CEO of a company that you've probably worn the clothing of or at least certainly seen others wear the clothing of. Columbia Sportswear company. CEO Tim Boyle is standing there at his desk and he says essentially, 'Hey, flat-earthers. If you can prove that the earth is flat, like if you can actually get to the end of it and send us a video of a cascading nothingness off of the edge of the earth, then I'll give you the whole company. I'll give you everything.' And then he basically just goes walking around the company showing all the things that he would give. And this thing had gone viral and it was so fun and seemed to just capture the joy of the outdoors that I got to wondering, where did this come from? Why did they do this? And so I just started googling around and I found some answers. As it turns out, this company was looking for a repositioning in the marketplace addressing a question of sales and how do we get sales up? And had recognized that the outdoors industry, the outdoors sports wear industry had just become really self-serious. Not something I had thought much about, but as soon as I read it, I thought, well, yeah, that's true. It is all about the beauty of nature or the serenity of this or whatever, but there wasn't a lot of joy and fun and Columbia had recognized that there was an opportunity to position in joy and fun. To capture that thing that of course is also the reason that people go out into nature. And this was the flat-earthers thing just part of a longer and larger campaign to do just that. So anyway, I wrote about this on LinkedIn cuz I loved it so much. And then I heard from someone at Columbia who said, 'Hey, do you want to talk to Tim Boyle about this?' And I said, 'Yes, of course I do.' And so today, I am delighted that I've got CEO and Chairman Tim Boyle of Columbia Sportswear Company to talk to me about where this came from and how to think about repositioning an old brand in a new era. Tim Boyle, welcome to Problem Solvers.

It's a thrill to have you here. So, okay, Tim, you heard my setup here.

Take me into the thinking and maybe let's start by acknowledging that humor is not new to this brand, but humor was not a part of the brand more recently.

And how old were you at the time?

Okay. So, you've got mom ordering you around basically as a way of stress testing the clothing that you're wearing.

Yeah.

I didn't know there was a Flat Earth Society.

That's how it began. I love that. Okay, there are two things that I really want to pick up on of what you just said. Number one was about positioning in a crowded marketplace. And I want to share something that was said to me a while ago that's always stuck with me and get your reaction to it. And the number two is let's talk about how to recognize white space in the world of ideas, right? It's to recognize that everyone has zigged and so it's time to zag. So, to start, you had said in China alone you've got 700 or so competitors. And what that reminded me of was a conversation that I had had a while ago with someone also in the sportswear industry, so to speak, which was the president of Reebok. And he had told me that he always tells his team that you can't compete on quality anymore. Because at this point, manufacturing is so good that it's very easy to produce quality. Everybody's quality in some way or another. And so, if you are, and this was his example, he said, 'Let's say that you create a new scissors company. You cannot market yourself as having the sharpest pair of scissors because everybody has the sharpest pair of scissors. And so, it's got to be about something else. It's got to be about the story that you tell and the way that you identify with people.' And I'd love for you to react to that and maybe think about that thinking in the world of your own business. You make quality products, but you must be aware that you are not the only ones in the world making quality products. And so how do you think about how you exist in that crowded ecosystem?

Yeah. And then let's think about that white space of ideas and maybe your advice to other founders or CEOs on how to recognize it. And this is not of course just the outdoor apparel industry. This is every industry. Every industry does this. And that can be frustrating until you realize of course that it creates a massive opportunity where once everybody has gone to one side of the room, you can go to the other side of the room. I would love to hear you talk about how to recognize that and maybe how you've done that throughout your career.

If you could break that down for me, that would actually be really interesting. So, number one is what kind of questions are you asking? Like what's a good strategy for drawing out useful information from your retail partners? And then number two, what kind of things were you hearing that made you think we've got to start thinking differently?

Yeah. If you just listen and accept criticism.

Okay, so Tim, this advertising agency, I presume, brings you the idea of the flat Earth thing. It's a bold idea. It is bold in a number of different ways. Number one, it is a change in tone from how the company had been talking more recently. Number two, you're at the center of it. And number three is it's touching a cultural issue and even though I think the vast majority of people on this round Earth understand that it's round, there are still plenty of very vocal and can be angry people who think otherwise. So, did you hear this idea and say, 'Oh, yeah, that's great.' or did you hear this idea and say, 'Absolutely not.' and somebody had to convince you?

Huh.

Yeah, that's right. The NFL was going to sue. So, you got to call it the big game.

Ooh. Bear poop beer.

Yeah. How what's your method of evaluating whether or not a risky idea is worth doing?

Mhm. What was the result of the flat Earth campaign? Did you hear from a lot of people?

Really?

How do you measure success for an idea like this?

Yeah. You know the reason I asked you that question about how to measure success is because I post a lot of great marketing on LinkedIn which as I did with you which is how we're talking today. I'll see a commercial I'll say that's so smart and then I'll post that video and then kind of break down my ideas about why it works. And always I mean every single day there's at least one or two people in the comments who will say some version of yeah but did it sell product? Like yeah that's a funny idea but did it sell product? Because if it didn't sell product then maybe it's not as good as you're saying is what they're saying. And I'd love for you to react to that kind of thinking.

But do you think that you have to draw that line in marketing? I mean, if you put out that flat-earth thing and it got everybody talking and there was absolutely no way of knowing whether or not it moved a single unit. Is that still a success?

Yeah. I mean, that's what the head of marketing at Liquid Death told me who, you know, also is really mastering the funny stunt marketing arena. And he said he thinks that brands, and he was really thinking specifically of smaller brands, but I think that this goes everywhere. He said, 'Brands think too much about bottom of funnel.' Which it sounds counterintuitive that there's too much conversion-oriented marketing and that that stuff is fine, but the problem is that if that's the only place that you're focused on, then you don't really get organic growth because people are only seeing you when you're trying to push them to transact instead of thinking about how to build a longer-term relationship with them where they're going to convert on their own over and over again later cuz they just really like you because of the top-of-funnel marketing that you're doing. And so, it sounds like you're thinking about that in the same way. Is that right?

Right.

Mhm. Yeah, right. It's true. You have to get people feeling connected to the idea that you're putting out there because the product is an absolute commodity.

It's like air, right? It's true. And which is not unlike what you're selling. And you're not selling air, but you're selling access to air in a way, right? I mean, you're selling the relationship to air. So, Tim, as we kind of come to a conclusion here, I'd love to hear you maybe speak to someone who's listening right now who is thinking about what direction their company should be speaking in. And you've seen and overseen many different versions of this direction, right? I mean, you came into this business and it was a humor-driven business. It had moved away from that. Now it's back. I guess how do you step back and think about strategically what the voice of your brand should be at any one moment? And what do you advise others to think about?

That's awesome. Well, Tim Boyle, thank you so much for your time and for adding some more joy to people's lives. And if I ever do come to the very end of the earth, then I will send you a photo and I look forward to running Columbia Sportswear myself.