On one hand, the agility, the speed of understanding situations and adapting—which nobody else has—and it's also very important that women have an awareness of their own value. I've sometimes seen many talented women who hold themselves back. Then it's very difficult. So there have been important steps forward, but there's still a lot to do.
Good evening, President, and thank you for accepting our invitation.
Good evening, and thank you. I'm very pleased to be here.
So I'd like to start from the beginning of this entrepreneurial story, which really still teaches us something—perhaps more than ever today. I'd like to start with the adventure of your father, Stano Marcegaglia, who in 1959 invented something that became revolutionary, giving rise to an extraordinary empire. Why do I bring this up? Because I'm thinking that in these complicated times, when even doing business—beyond new technologies—doing business the way it used to be done really seems like a very difficult adventure, perhaps even for new generations. So my first question for you is this: thinking about your family's history, your father's story, the bets and sacrifices he must have made in his life—is there still room in Italy for this kind of possibility, for these entrepreneurial adventures that build worlds, build empires, starting truly from nothing?
Well, you know, my father founded the company in 1959, so in the post-war period, in the 1960s, which were really the years when Italian industrialization took off. Apart from the large enterprises, it was a world where there was really everything to invent, in a certain sense. It was more difficult because there were far fewer resources. Dad was very poor; he started from nothing with great ambition, a desire to do something important, but he had nothing—nothing but his ideas. But in a sense, there was everything to invent, right? So it was more difficult because there were fewer resources, but it was perhaps easier—the markets were more closed, and the competitors, the rivals, were local, not even national. It was a world where—precisely—many companies were born in those years, often started by former workers or by people like my father who had nothing. But to return to your question, I believe that today there are more resources, more competence, more education. However, the markets are much more complex. There's extraordinary uncertainty—even more so in these months. There's fierce competition. But I believe there's still room. My brother and I, we're continuing—not just a company, but a tradition of values. Because in the end, doing business—I always say it's a difficult job but the most beautiful job in the world. So if you've grown up, as I was fortunate to, with parents who taught you that doing business means having a great project, bringing people together, and with those people carrying that project forward, making it a reality, and ensuring that project brings well-being to people and communities—we still believe in that. So I think it's difficult, but there's still room. Of course, we all need to commit to making life easier—perhaps for young people who don't have money, through venture capital, making sure there's less bureaucracy. We should create an easier environment, but I believe there's still room to do business.
It was very beautiful what you said about values, because I was thinking that the main difference between being an industrial captain and a manager is precisely that family value, the tradition that becomes the foundation on which something is built. Does any memory come to mind—connected to your father or your mother, from your childhood—where something stuck with you, something that stayed inside you regarding this tradition of values that brings family and business together?
Well, for example, my mother, who was always in the company—clearly it was my father the entrepreneur, but she was always there, she managed personnel. The beautiful thing was that she was considered sort of the mother of everyone—truly. If there was a colleague who wasn't feeling well, or whose child wasn't feeling well—even without being seen—she would find out, and then maybe call her doctor friends and say, 'Look, I'm sending this person to you, but don't say I sent you, please take care of them, do the best you can because this young person needs help.' So my mother was the person who took care of the company's people as if they were part of a family. And unfortunately, when she passed away, people still remember her that way. And my father—let me give you an example, something that happened recently. A gentleman brought portraits of my father, made with a very particular technique. He's an important person who now works at the Louvre—he's an art professor. So we asked him, 'Why are you giving us this tribute?' And he said, 'Because I was very poor, I couldn't study, I was working as a laborer. And your father would come on Sundays—he didn't have many hobbies, my father. He would go to the factory, knew all the workers, and would stop to talk with them. He came up to this young man and said, 'Tell me who you are.' And I said, 'I'm here, I have a poor family, my father has no money, I have to work, but I have a great passion for art.' And my father said, 'Why don't you study?' And I said, 'Because I don't have the money.' And my father said, 'Don't worry. You keep working. The money for studying—I'll give it to you. If you need to take time off work to study, I'll understand. No problem. Go ahead and do what you want.' And this person—who, as he was telling this story, tears were streaming down his face—he's now about 50, a distinguished gentleman. And so, these are the kinds of things I grew up with. So it's clear that for us, the company must be competitive, must be strong, must perform—but there's more to it. These are the values that my brother and I absorbed since childhood.
When you were a teenager, did you always think you'd commit to your parents' company, or did you have other dreams?
Well, I had this period where I always did classical ballet—from when I was five or six years old. My mother took me three times a week to Mantua for dance classes. There was this period when I wanted to be a ballet dancer—my passion was to become a ballet dancer. Then in reality, I convinced myself that my path was different. But I'm happy—because I didn't give up something to do something else because I felt forced to. No, I'm very happy with the work I do.
I was thinking that in dance there's a great deal of discipline, and I imagine that being an industrial captain requires just as much, if not more.
Absolutely yes. The most complicated thing about my job is that you never switch off. You always have projects spinning in your mind at night, or worries, or sometimes even the adrenaline of having done something great. So it's a job where you can never disconnect. That's the complicated part—because it doesn't leave you much space. But perhaps that's also its beauty, because it's a strong passion that never lets you go.
Speaking of not being able to switch off, in these times it's particularly difficult, I imagine, to be in such an important and at the same time delicate position as yours. Because you were talking about the 1960s, when there was great economic expansion, great confidence—and now instead we find ourselves in a moment where these sentiments—political, economic, but also emotional—no longer exist. There's a feeling of closure regarding possibilities. How do you face a public, political, personal sentiment like the one we're living today when you're in a position like yours?
I think you're very right. Perhaps the hallmark of our times is the lack of confidence, the lack of enthusiasm—the idea that certain things can't be done. Many young people have this idea; perhaps they give up because they say there's no path for me. I was reading that we could be the generation that will see our children have a worse life than ours—which has never happened. All subsequent generations have normally had a better life than their parents. How do you face this? Well, you face it—with reforms, with a whole series of things we were saying before: less bureaucracy, a Europe that must change, must find its strength, its proper dimension—a context that supports enterprise. But perhaps you also face it by sending some messages of confidence. Too often today only messages of distrust are given: Europe can't do it, Italy can't manage. I think sometimes we need to send a message of confidence, because I believe that Europe and Italy still have many cards to play. So on one hand, a series of actions that make life easier, better for people—but then expectations are also what generate economies and choices.
But do you think that today Italy is a country where, all things considered, the employment rate is one of the highest ever? Incomes are certainly low, but they've grown a bit. Interest rates are coming down. We have one of the highest savings rates in the world, but people don't spend. Why? Because they don't have confidence. If people spent more, the economy would do better. But why don't they spend, despite having savings? Because they have distrust in the future. So I think all of us who have roles should also send a message of confidence—things are difficult but not impossible.
Yes, I believe in this. And speaking of Europe, speaking of a company like yours that invests a lot in Europe—in France, in England especially. But there's an aspect now—Europe is under attack.
Undoubtedly, but it's under attack also because Europe is actually feared—because it has enormous demographic, political, and market potential, and the capacity to influence, for example, negotiations for raw materials, of which we're not always aware.
Exactly. Precisely this. But never like today have we been squeezed—have we found ourselves squeezed between two opposing forces. Because we have the problem in the East from Russia, which threatens us militarily, so there's a defense issue—a new problem. And from the West, the United States, which threatens us economically. So Europe truly finds itself between two opposing forces that are very concerning.
From my point of view—what is your sense? Within Italy and outside—how are European enterprises, how are the main actors of our continent—which finds itself caught in crossfire—reacting?
Look, I'm very close to Draghi's thinking. When Draghi says Europe has a whole series of potentialities, but Europe has put itself in this situation. For example, as you rightly pointed out, we are a market of 400 million people with one of the highest incomes in the world, but the single market doesn't exist. The IMF was even saying we shouldn't be so afraid of Trump's tariffs—because the barriers within the single market between different countries represent a tariff equivalent to 45% on average. So Europe, over all these years, has made choices of protection, of regulation—and in the end, this decline in competitiveness, this decline in growth, is not written in our destiny. It's the result of a series of choices we've made, but they're choices we can change. Let's create a real single market. Let's remove barriers. Let's talk about common defense. If we take the defense spending of individual European countries combined, we spend like China—a military power. Let's avoid deciding everything by unanimity. How can a continent like Europe decide by unanimity? It's not possible. Let's create a capital markets union. Let's create banking union. Let's issue common debt—eurobonds—to invest in innovation, in energy, in energy transition, in defense. Europe has all these characteristics. The problem is understanding it—overcoming these barriers, overcoming this vision where every nation does its own part. Because I think it's now clear that no country alone—not even Germany, which is today the most troubled country in Europe—can compete with China, with the United States. So if Europe could take this step—and perhaps Trump can give us quite a wake-up call that might help us understand this. So I think Europe has extraordinary potentialities.
I agree with you. Perhaps Europe is also feared in this moment. We're truly in a moment where everyone says Europe is finished, Europe can't manage, Europe can't get out of this situation. Germany can't recover. But it's not true. We have many skills, many capabilities. We just really need to wake up.
Exactly. We were saying the other day we should move from compasses to alarm clocks. Von der Leyen made this metaphor—alarm clocks. Perhaps it would be better to wake up and do things. Just do what Draghi said—and what we, as BusinessEurope, as Confindustria, have been saying continuously. What we need to do is clear. The problem is doing it.
You mentioned Trump earlier. As a steel entrepreneur, you already dealt with him in 2016. Has it gotten worse, in your view?
Well, let's say the Trump of 2016 was a Trump who had less absolute power. He had a Republican Party that watched him a bit suspiciously and controlled him somewhat. He had a parliament not fully under his control. He had the Supreme Court not in the majority. Today, it's a Trump who says, 'I won and I'll do what I want.' And then there's this Elon Musk factor—which is unclear what this union between the two means. So this is a Trump who, at least from the first moves, is an aggressive Trump. He's a Trump who says, 'I'm the strongest and I'm in charge.' He says he wants to make peace with Russia himself—there's no room for others. Although I've seen that already today he's moderated a bit. But I think he's ultimately a pragmatic man, a businessman. And I hope—we don't know—but the real problem is that we don't know. The hallmark of this situation is unpredictability, absolute uncertainty, which as you know, for the economy and for entrepreneurs, is the worst thing there can be. But I hope that ultimately all this aggression is a way of negotiating, and perhaps there are aspects where Trump has a point—because Europe should spend more on defense. He's right. That Europe has built all its growth on exports and not on domestic demand—let's return to the single market. That's true. So there are imbalances that have been created over the years, also to the detriment of the United States. And perhaps in a logic of evaluating together what's the best way to grow globally, those need to be changed. But thinking of taking everyone by force and then negotiating—putting a gun on the table to then negotiate—we'll see. I hope that as things progress, we return to some reasoning. Perhaps it's a way of saying, 'Now you need to change.' He aggresses because he wants you to realize you need to change. And in fact, today I saw that the American negotiators said Europe also needs to sit down for peace in Ukraine. That's a step forward from what they said yesterday. So let's hope for that kind of situation.
He certainly presented himself in a much more aggressive way—'I'm strong and I'm in charge.' Some analysts, economists, even politicians say if the United States closes markets, imposes tariffs, we find new space to the East—China, India. Is this a feasible path, or a somewhat dangerous one—to shift focus?
