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Grazia Vittadini
Chief Technology Officer (Member of the Executive Board), Deutsche Lufthansa AG

Europe 2021: Trends and new technologies in aviation with Grazia Vittadini, CTO of Airbus

🎥 Mar 01, 2021 📺 Studio ZX ⏱ 19m 👁 2554 views
With Grazia Vittadini, Chief Technology Officer, Airbus SE, and Thomas Hanke, Paris Correspondent, Handelsblatt For the first time, Der Tagesspiegel, DIE ZEIT, Handelsblatt, and WirtschaftsWoche hosted a joint kick-off event, "Europe 2021," to discuss the urgent tasks Europe must tackle in the challenging year ahead—from strengthening democracy, the continent's digital sovereignty, and a common European single market to meeting our climate protection targets in the year of the UN Climate Change Conference in Glasgow. www.europe2021.eu
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Transcript (18 segments)
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Interviewer0:03
I'm here in Paris and may welcome... Hello Grazia, I hope everything is well. I may briefly introduce you for those of our participants who may not yet know you. You were born in Italy, grew up in the United States, studied in Italy, and worked in Germany and France. You're multilingual and speak excellent German, which is why we're grateful we can conduct this discussion in German. As a child, you apparently didn't play with dolls but with airplanes. As a young adult, you got your pilot's license, studied aerospace engineering in Milan, and then started at the Airbus subsidiary Eurofighter in Italy. You continued at Fairchild Dornier in Munich and then returned to Airbus, where you spent the largest part of your career. You've gone through virtually all parts of the company, from defense to commercial aircraft to auditing. Since 2008, you've been Chief Technology Officer for the entire group. As the first woman, you also joined the executive committee. By now, two of the twelve committee members are women, which one could see as great progress, or say there's still a lot to do. But first, let's move to our discussion.
I'd like to start with a question that I believe many people in Europe and around the world are asking: where does air traffic actually stand today in this corona pandemic, which somehow isn't letting up? We thought last year there was a big collapse and this year things could improve. But we heard from IATA, the airline association, that in January there was still minus 66 percent in air traffic compared to 2019. And one example: EasyJet will offer only ten percent of its regular capacity in the first quarter. Does the upswing planned for 2021 then not materialize after all?
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Grazia Vittadini2:32
There is no doubt that global air traffic has collapsed by up to 90 percent due to COVID, and this is without doubt the biggest crisis in the history of our industry, the aviation industry. For us, as for many other sectors, the pandemic has turned our world completely upside down. I think it's also interesting to examine what changes are here to stay because of COVID. I have two theses on that. First, even though air traffic is currently depressed, it still holds true that in the long term, aircraft remain the mode of transport for which there is no alternative to quickly and globally connect people and markets. And second, despite the current challenges, the industry continues to invest, specifically in climate-neutral aviation, because that is our goal. If we look soberly at what aviation actually is and what it means to us: aircraft transport people and goods faster and further than any other means of transport, and for the foreseeable future, no other technology can deliver that. For this combination of global reach and high speed, aviation is and remains what I would call a unique selling proposition.
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Interviewer4:38
And now you said 'no alternative,' but we have all inevitably gotten used to the fact that with Zoom and Teams there is, admittedly somewhat unpleasant, but still an alternative. And some people say this will remain after the pandemic, because companies have seen they can save incredible amounts of money, and individuals see, okay, I don't have to drive to the airport, that's perhaps quite good. So does video conferencing replace flying?
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Grazia Vittadini5:12
Video conferencing and digital communication in general undoubtedly offer many great advantages, and we naturally use this technology at Airbus as well, in the daily collaboration of our teams around the globe, or for participating in conferences like this one. But ultimately, video conferencing does not replace personal contact. And that is what we are convinced of: people still want to travel. People want to meet physically, both for business but especially for private reasons. In terms of proximity, I believe we all know this need only too well.
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Interviewer6:10
Yes, yes. For you at Airbus, reducing fuel consumption and building quieter aircraft has always been a concern, so environmental issues aren't entirely foreign to you. But now the pressure has increased significantly again that CO2 emissions be rapidly reduced and that in the foreseeable future there be no emissions at all. But the question arises, in light of the crisis which has also hit you as a manufacturer, though not as hard as the airlines: do you even still have the financial means to fund these enormous investments?
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Grazia Vittadini6:55
First of all, environment and revenue are not opposites per se. Quite the contrary: the pressure for more environmental and climate protection comes not only from society but also genuinely from the economy. Climate and environmental protection will increasingly become truly fundamental for future competitive advantage.
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Interviewer7:28
We still need... that's clear. Now, research and development are primarily an investment in the business of tomorrow. And so the question about research and development priorities is one every company must ask itself at any time.
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Grazia Vittadini7:54
And we focus at Airbus on several technologies, particularly hydrogen-powered gas turbines and the storage of liquid hydrogen, from electric hybrid concepts through to fuel cells. Many of these technologies are supported by government funding programs as well as by the European Union. That means perhaps within the company you've scaled back other R&D investments that no longer serve this goal, and are now really concentrating on... That is certainly our priority. But there is no single standalone solution that truly addresses the challenge of decarbonizing aviation. One must develop several technologies in parallel, and hopefully several viable options will emerge.
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Interviewer9:09
Yes, now based on what was announced last year as a strategy, hydrogen seems to be moving to the foreground. When we think of hydrogen, we tend to think of fuel cells for terrestrial transport, in cars, buses, or trains. But for aircraft, a fuel cell would be far too heavy. In the aircraft, the hydrogen is supposed to be burned. Can you explain a bit how that should work?
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Grazia Vittadini9:40
Our ambition goes beyond just fewer emissions to truly zero CO2 emissions. Our goal is to develop the world's first commercially viable, completely emissions-free aircraft, with the idea of bringing it to market in 2035. So in 2035, an airline could order an Airbus with hydrogen propulsion. That is our ambition. We see the mid-2030s as the point where we could be market-ready. We have very concrete milestones: in the coming years we will develop technology demonstrators, and with their help we expect to identify the most important technology building blocks by the end of the decade, which we will then pursue further and integrate into a platform. One central building block is already quite firmly established: we are convinced that for future propulsion, hydrogen is one of the most promising technologies, for two reasons. If we produce hydrogen with renewable energy, we can truly fly emissions-free without CO2, and perhaps even without contrails. And hydrogen is already used today in several industries, meaning costs will fall with increasing production. This is truly a unique chance to kill two birds with one stone: advancing environmental protection and securing the competitiveness of Europe's industry in the world of tomorrow.
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Interviewer12:07
So what are the main challenges when it comes to hydrogen? Clearly, political frameworks need to be adapted worldwide. Logistics need to be addressed. One must work toward producing and distributing green hydrogen on an industrial scale. And of course the technology: we need to design the aircraft for the new fuel. What kind of engine will replace kerosene with hydrogen? How should one imagine that? Various concepts are currently being examined.
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Grazia Vittadini12:53
Burning hydrogen is one solution, using traditional gas turbines modified for this fuel. We are deliberately planning to start on this basis next year. There are also major structural challenges. One must not forget that hydrogen has about one-third the weight of kerosene but requires four times the volume in liquid state to deliver the same energy. And to keep hydrogen liquid, we must cool it to minus 253 degrees. This means the fuel tanks can no longer be stored in the wing, but probably in the fuselage, where we'll see wider, longer, rounder shapes. The entire fuselage architecture will change. But this challenge is somewhat familiar from the space industry, where we also have tanks for liquid hydrogen, so making it work is actually no problem. Well, of course, if it's not a rocket but an aircraft with perhaps 200 passengers, there are additional safety requirements. But Europe is well-positioned for that.
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Interviewer14:47
What does such an aircraft look like? You said the fuselage will definitely be wider and longer. I've also seen models at Airbus of something that resembles a flying wing or a boomerang, you could sort of imagine it that way.
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Grazia Vittadini15:08
Yes, we are actually working on three different concept aircraft. The first is a turbofan, with a typical range of about 3,500 kilometers, which would also make intercontinental flights possible, carrying approximately 200 passengers maximum. We then presented a turboprop concept with a turboprop engine, also powered by hydrogen combustion in modified gas turbines, for up to 100 passengers over about 1,800 kilometers, so a short-haul aircraft. And then we presented a blended wing body, which I think really symbolizes how one can break free from traditional fuselage architectures when thinking about alternative propulsion systems. This concept offers many advantages, particularly regarding hydrogen storage. The advantage is perhaps more space, the disadvantage is not everyone gets a window seat, but that's already somewhat the case today. We need to reach a decision on this relatively soon.
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Interviewer16:42
The advantage of the blended wing body is perhaps more space, and not everyone gets a window seat, though that's already somewhat the case today. There is one more question I would very much like to ask you, which perhaps many of our participants are also interested in: You have taken a very particular path. What tips can you give to young women who, similar to you, want to make their way in a male-dominated society or a heavily male-dominated company, and want to become as successful as you?
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Grazia Vittadini17:26
That's a great compliment. I believe what's really important is to stay true to yourself. It may sound like a cliché, and I'll start with a cliché, but there is a risk that certain patterns are applied, consciously or unconsciously, when it comes to selecting leaders. And when you move outside those patterns, you often get feedback. You hear it often with women in every industry: they're coached to be more self-confident, to speak in a deeper voice, to smile less, and not dress so colorfully. And that is wrong. I believe it's a sign that these patterns are still there, and it's not easy, it's sometimes even painful. But you must stay true to yourself. Only then can you truly unlock the potential you carry within you.
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Interviewer19:06
I believe not only for young women, but many men could also benefit from the advice to stay true to themselves and not adapt too much. Grazia, thank you so much for this conversation. You've truly given us all many insights. We hope you continue to do well, stay healthy, and stay with us for a long time to come. All the best, and hopefully see you soon.