Can Pakistan be the next Digital Destination of the World? - Javed Iqbal Syed - BAT GBS - #TPE 362

When we started, we didn't make it to Gartner's list. Gartner is a company that does a lot of benchmarking globally — if you're going to open shared services in Asia, which countries and cities should you go to. Usually you'd find Manila, Bangalore, Kolkata on that list. Today, Lahore's name has appeared on it, and that's a great thing. When you build the feasibility, you take a screenshot showing Lahore on Gartner's list for Pakistan. I think it will be a commercially right thing to do.

But for you and me, because we are Pakistanis, it makes a difference — we feel good that our country is benefiting. But this is a commercial global business decision, and it will benefit the global business world. Investors go on a commercial basis, and we have a commercial case for Pakistan. People will say someone did it — yes, now we have done it.

I am very proud. If we take off our Pakistani cap — because from BAT's perspective, when they look at Pakistan, they don't look through Pakistani nationalism at all. If they are looking at Pakistan and this model as a success, what is it about that benefits them? It's about whether Pakistan fits into the broader global strategy.

Within GBS, the advantage we had — for example, going to other countries in South Asia, we have an established brand called PTC. To attract talent, GBS itself has become a big brand name in a very short span of time. So we had the added advantage of talent attraction. The people working in this building have worked in every multinational in Pakistan. I don't want to make my friends in other multinationals unhappy — where did you poach people from? Think of anything from Unilever to Pepsi to Nestlé, everybody is here in this building.

And I am very proud of it because they get a chance to work on a global stage. For BAT, it made commercial sense — from a labour arbitrage perspective, from infrastructure, they have a history of consistent delivery from Pakistan, they had strong talent branding in Pakistan, so it was an added advantage.

Absolutely, not a well-kept secret. But it gives me an opportunity to talk about a major transformation which we are going through as a global level, including PTC. Just to be very clear, I totally understand the risks and health risks a consumer carries when they smoke a traditional product.

Previously we didn't have innovation — if you look at our old products, in 100 years there were two innovations: a filter was added, or a capsule for flavouring. Now the science has developed so much that we have options to offer consumers — if they want to consume nicotine, in a much less risky way. There's still risk, but much less risk than traditional products.

In Pakistan, we were the first one to launch nicotine pouches with low risk. We have a big ambition — corporately, there are 1.1 billion smokers in the world, and we want to move those smokers to less risky products. We have all three products: vaping, heated products, and modern oral nicotine pouches.

And it's not something which happens in the developed world only — in Pakistan, we are on that journey too. We are going through a lot of transformation where actually we need help for things like GBS, because now I want to inform you as a consumer on your digital platforms — this is the risk profile of what you're doing, and you can actually still have nicotine on a much lower risk profile.

So actually, we need more digital capabilities, we need more data and consumer interaction capabilities to make sure we can move those 1.1 billion global users to this less risky product. So actually, this is not a conflict — this is the biggest enabler. GBS will be one of the biggest enablers in BAT's transformation to a better tomorrow.

And this is the first time in the past five years — it puts a spring in my feet that I have an opportunity to change this company. Right now, you might be confused about jobs and services and needing more talent. But maybe five years down the line, ten years down the line — is the plan that if we truly have an IT city, an IT park built, all these buildings beside us also become yours? Is the plan to move out of BAT? And if other multinational companies need services, digital marketing, data analytics — are you going to say no?

I think that's one thing I have learned in my life — never say never. You never know what will happen. When we came to Jhelum, we didn't know what life would bring. If any other multinational or local group wants to do this, we will be happy to partner, to share our learning, to help them set it up. Because I want this to mushroom. Even if that means I lose some of my good talent, but we will create a sector in Pakistan which doesn't exist.

The business solutions sector doesn't exist in Pakistan, and this is a hundred billion dollar opportunity. How do we look at this in terms of helping the Pakistan economy? Our labour — it may seem like a small thing, but I keep watching reels where people are away from their parents celebrating Eid. There's no need for that. You can work in Japan, Canada, the US, and in the evening go have butter chicken and fish fry in Lahore.

At an individual level, it will also grow. And if it grows, there will be a significant inflow of foreign revenue for the economy — because that's a big game changer. You don't have to send raw material out of the country, you don't have to set up supply chains, you don't have to ship anything. Your talent here will generate revenue through services in hard currency.

Just visualize it — if 100, 200 thousand such centers open, that would change the game for Pakistan. Dr. Umer came on the podcast and said the services industry is what will save Pakistan. Manufacturing and those ideas are old now. Are you also a believer in that philosophy?

No, I think we are actually — we might be in time. Because with technology, the good thing is you can leapfrog. When you open service centers today, they will already be AI-enabled. So you can teach your workforce in shared service centers to be AI-enabled. It's not going to replace anything and everything dramatically — you are never too late. Technology is a great leveler. You can actually leapfrog.

That's the belief — if we join now, we might actually become more competitive faster, because others need to transform from traditional to AI-enabled services. We can start with enabled services. But believe me on that front — even Microsoft's product is called Copilot. They are not called replacements. The AI-enabled product of Microsoft is called Copilot — it helps you to be a better deliverer of your job than to replace you.

So that name gives you an idea. Why not we start these service centers with AI enabled? We will get a competitive advantage. The idea is that AI might plan your house designs, but you still need an expert architect. There are jobs that don't exist anymore — shorthand, stenotypist — but people still get jobs. It's the evolution of things, and this shared services and global business solutions is another evolution step in corporate life.

This will always happen, and some of the services we are working on will be AI-enabled and are partly AI-enabled already. So to me, it's actually the right time. If we get more people working with us, it can become a game changer for us faster.

No. Look, we need to encourage entrepreneurs too. I won't disparage anyone. I think those who become entrepreneurs are more courageous — one out of twenty-five succeeds and the rest go broke. But we think there is space for both because we have enough talent in Pakistan. What we need to create is more opportunities — whether you become an independent digital content creator, a digital service provider, or you work with us. I would say both paths should work.

And when you grow, maybe you become such a big company that we start collaborating with you. I won't disparage anyone — both career paths are valid.

At the end of the day, it's your choice. The thing is — whatever your heart is in, you work harder at it. The thing you do from the heart, you put in more effort, more extra hours. I often tell people — take my advice, and I will give you my views, but do what your heart tells you. Because you will work extra hard to prove yourself right. Where you believe in something, you must try it once, but with very passion-driven hard work. Then it will work both ways — whether it's an entrepreneurial journey, a solo journey, or a corporate journey. That one thing which is very old and traditional — hard work, commitment, drive — that page of even today, in any way, still applies.

No. I grew up in '95 and '99 in the old days when I was learning, and this is again another advantage for people — because you are working on a global timeline. A lot of people work two to three days from home, which saves them a lot of commuting. Especially because of diversity, it works amazingly well for working mothers because they don't need to be in the office every day. They can plan accordingly. If you're working with Japan or Korea, you start much early but finish much early. If some youngsters are late starters, you can work with the UK or Germany and start late and finish late. It gives you that flexibility. And also because of technology, it is location agnostic — you don't need to be in this building every day.

I talk about diversity because I am personally a beneficiary. My mother decided in 1970 in Multan city to work, because she wanted to give her three sons a good education. My father was a professor, and the schools had been nationalised — they became government schools. My parents decided that if they wanted to educate these three children properly, something had to be done. My mother decided to work, and it was not easy. I come from a very traditional, conservative family in Multan, and my mother had to take that big, bold step in the '70s — not of today.

Yes, because that's what I'm telling you — I have a personal obligation towards this. She became the first woman in the family to work. We were the beneficiaries — we went to good schools, got good education. My parents built a house, and just for the men on the call — when we paid off the house building loan, my father told us three boys: look, this house would never have been built if your mother hadn't worked. That house was transferred from the house building corporation to my mother's name, not my father's. I lost my father a few years back, but my father never owned a house in his life. That house is still in my mother's name, in Multan.

So I benefited from diversity. The benefit was that our next generation — many of my cousins work, everyone does. But my mother had to go through the difficult step of moving out and working. So for me, it's my responsibility because I'm a beneficiary. It's my obligation to talk about diversity, and I proudly share this story.

When my mother started working, there was a very traditional argument: how will the children be raised? We are three brothers, and thank God, all three are well-established. If anyone challenges that a working woman can't raise children, I'm the example — my mother raised me, raised all three brothers while she was a working woman. In my view, a working woman is actually a much more learned mother, with all respect to every mother. We are all here because of our mothers. It actually helps — your experience broadens, you raise your children better for the world. And they bring diversity to the discussion table.

I am a beneficiary. My team is very diverse — culturally diverse, gender diverse. It creates a commercial case to do that.

I often say this problem was created by men, so men have to solve it. We often look at two or three senior female managers and say 'that's it' — but that's wrong. The problem arose because we didn't maintain gender balance in the beginning, so we should go the extra mile to fix it. You have to set some targets. I know some of my friends won't like it — they'll say 'I've always promoted people on merit, I've always recruited the best people for BAT whether in Pakistan, Switzerland, or England.' But you need to understand the benefit of diversity in your team, and then go for it.

We have started with the 25% benchmark. We are hoping to keep pushing, and I'm sure the world is changing, everything is changing. The only thing which will remain constant is change.

Traditionally these have been male-dominated fields, and boys — we need some intervention to encourage. For a while, if we move a bit from GBS to PTC — I did a market visit in Karachi with my female area managers. If you'd asked me five years ago who would do the Karachi market visit, I'd have said Javed or Junaid or Jamshed would do it. But no, I did it with Jaweria and Areeba. This is very interesting — all the myths are breaking. Our female colleagues work with our farmers, they do amazingly well. They are agriculture graduates working in marketing, in the field, working factory shifts.

I think some of us who aren't looking at the world closely think change hasn't happened. But when I personally go into PTC factories, meet my sales force, visit leaf areas and see the farmers, you see them everywhere now, and they are growing. I think we just need slightly flexible policies. We need to understand what their needs are. Basic communities didn't exist before — even in multinationals they didn't exist. We are catching up there, and we should keep at it.

When you start a new job, everyone wants to build a career, regardless of where you come from. If you're the eldest child in the family — whether you're Korean, British — that pressure of being the eldest is the same on everyone. Then when you become new parents, everyone has young children, and you're all exchanging notes about children's illnesses and doctor's visits. When you reach my age group, regardless of where you're from, you're asking about children's university, how their studies are going, how to find them jobs. We all go through the same life cycle. So traveling the world taught me that we actually have much more in common, and the differences are actually less.

But because we don't live together, don't meet each other, we operate on perception. But because God gave me the opportunity, and I lived abroad — my friends are in Korea, Switzerland, and around the world — you actually realize we are very much alike. Sometimes they're just as afraid of their mothers as I am.

Not that much. And secondly, when you start working together, the formalities increase. When you work with a Japanese team, Korean team, and something isn't clear, you can ask them — because you're part of one team. Just like when you join any company, there are cultural differences — PTC is different from another company. Slowly, you start learning. There are subtle differences at times — even between Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad, we say 'no, it's done this way here.' But once you're part of that journey, you learn it. Again, I think differences are there, but there are more similarities than differences.

In 2012, I went to India. I befriended the students there after the event. We started discussing cricket. When the discussion ended, I said, 'You know, our professors told us that cricket couldn't be discussed because there was potential for fights.' And the more that cricket conversation brought us closer. Sometimes maybe the ideas we have — that this is sensitive — when those discussions open up, friendships grow. In my view, where there's more dialogue, there's less fighting. When we reduce dialogue, the chance of conflict increases.

No, no, I'm speaking generally. Because then you're boiling up inside with your perception, and I'm boiling up inside with mine. But if our dialogue starts, maybe I'll accept some of your points, you'll accept some of mine, and we get something even better than what you and I were thinking. I think dialogue is decreasing globally, and statement-ism is increasing. I hope conversation increases.

Absolutely, the transfer of expertise is actually going on. Today we have a guest from the US, a team member from Indonesia looking after the HR team here, I have a legal person from Malaysia right now, and I'm getting someone from the UK tomorrow. On the other hand, yes, technology has broken those barriers. I would tell the government: we can enable you to create those skill sets without the challenge that nobody wants to come to Pakistan. Once they know Pakistan and Pakistani talent, I'm sure they will come. And once they have the food in Karachi and Lahore, they'll keep coming back.

I think it has its ups and downs always, because as PTC we do a lot of work with them. But generally it has been a positive experience. But I think we can do a lot more with them to showcase Pakistan in this area, which is very new. There is a lot of opportunity to collaborate and showcase Pakistan as an example of shared services to the world. I'm looking forward to it — government, private sector, or any friend anywhere in the world who wants to work with me and my team, we are ready.

There is an IT park being launched. The government has interest and vision. I've spoken a lot with Dr. Umar. The new government has come in too. Hopefully they use the word — in IT, they use the term 'use case.' I didn't understand what a use case was at first — it means an example. We are a use case of how it is to be done. So please use this use case on your brochures, your talks, your speeches.

Absolutely. My view is — instead of Harvard, I should work with my LUMS and other graduates' professors to create this, and then let Harvard copy it from LUMS, Inshallah. That way many more such centers are created, our people get jobs, work around the world, learn from it, and the pressure on our foreign reserves also reduces somewhat.

One is the transformation — I got the opportunity to work on moving towards tobacco harm reduction and danger agenda, bringing products which are far less risky. Second, we are driving a lot of diversity and global talent pool, and this GBS is an example of that. We believe in equal opportunity for every talent in the world. My CEO started from Brazil and he is now CEO. I started in Jhelum factory and I am now Director of Digital. My other friend Jafar started from University of Engineering and Technology Peshawar and he is now Supply Chain Director. BAT is an example of how diversity and global talent can work for you.

GBS is always open to welcome anyone. We make sure we get adults into the office because of the sensitivity. But yes, we have a lot of collaboration. I'm sure soon we are going to LUMS on the career fairs, and I hope some of the professors with their classes come to do the case study of GBS.

I don't usually recommend like this, but I would recommend — because youth listens to you more — if you are looking for jobs, I would recommend checking this out. Because there are many things here that you might not find in a traditional Pakistani company that this place offers you. I didn't think I'd be endorsing it — I genuinely didn't think about it. I'm not getting paid for this endorsement. But I'm genuinely impressed, and I genuinely want to spread some positivity. I've also spread a lot of negativity by criticizing things. As a Pakistani who has lived abroad a lot, I've learned one thing: many people will criticize my country. Can we do something that only you and I can do? I think me and my team can do this. We delivered. If people like you help us spread this good news — let's use Pakistan to bring a smile on our faces.

Hopefully this is the first of a series. I think the people doing good work — if we highlight them even a bit — even if ten talented people come and represent us at a world scale, when they meet a hundred people, they'll say 'my friend is Pakistani and he's a great person.' I'm very proud that our Australia Area Director, our Japan GM, they come to see me in London and they tell me: 'Javed, GBS in Pakistan — what wonderful talent, your people are amazing.' You have no idea how much blood boils hearing this. That's why I hope we find more friends to spread this story, and we bring more smiles and belief about Pakistan.

Let's keep Pakistan in our hearts. I say our country deserves it — it's our turn to be on the world stage. So why not?

If God wills, dreams come true — and even more than what you dreamed of. That's the beauty of it.

Thank you.