Les marques en quête de culture - Thomas Jamet (IPG Mediabrands) et Romain Vivien (Believe)

Thank you for accepting our invitation to this webinar on brands seeking culture. To begin, I'd like to start with the present, meaning what happened during lockdown and after lockdown from the perspective of brands and culture. We suddenly remembered the absolutely essential nature of culture. What do you think? Did you experience it that way too?

And if we speak more about the world of culture and media, obviously it's the acceleration and confirmation of Netflix's and Prime Video's success, the launch of Disney+ during lockdown with perfect timing — an immediate hit, an incredible number of subscriptions right away. It would have been more complicated otherwise, but children needed to be occupied. So in this example, we see a good illustration of the acceleration of two trends, and we realize that dematerialization, the fact that people were at home, meant they couldn't go to the cinema but consumed enormously — at least for the audiovisual and music parts. Maybe Romain has better figures than me.

But precisely, can you explain why Asics would seek out JUL, and conversely?

That's precisely what's represented in this story — brands are seeking culture as a refuge value, but they also go completely outside the box with young artists like Aya Nakamura. It's quite impressive.

It's always been done, though — there are always partnerships. Over the last twenty years there would be enormous numbers of examples. Jean Paul Gaultier worked with Madonna for 30 years, so it's not new. But I would say it's accelerating, and one of the reasons for the acceleration is that we know audiences better thanks to digital. For the first time, artists are in direct contact with their audience — before, everything went through the filter of record labels, media, producers, concert promoters, journalists. Today it's direct — they're live on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. And that's fantastic because they can involve their audiences, speak to them directly, and we can follow these interactions to better know and understand them.

Is that what interests brands? Yes — now brands also know better who the audiences of these artists are. I think Balmain approached an artist like Aya Nakamura because first she sings wonderfully, but also because she has values that she carries — in her songs, in her interviews, in her stage performances, in her social media positions. These values are strong, they're in society, they go beyond music and fashion, but they unite people and send a message.

Thomas, in 2018 you published 'New Challenges of Content Marketing' at Pearson editions. The experience can also be brought by media like Nova or others. I'm thinking of the campaign we did with Toyota featuring very young artists like Myd, Claude, Clara Luciani, with Airbnb, Epicure — concerts at the Louvre. The strength of specialized media like that is to bring meaning between brands and culture. What do you think?

I totally agree, and I agree with what Romain just said about the contribution of data and digitalization — not just for the music industry obviously, but also in advertising. Nova took a leading position in this transformation. In the relationships between brands and their audiences and consumers, it's the same. We estimate that in 2024, digital investments worldwide will represent 65% of total advertising investments, compared to 43% in 2017. And this watershed year 2020 means we'll gain two years on those forecasts. When we say digitalization, we mean the ability to measure, to know exactly who we're addressing — we're no longer targeting based on rough sociodemographic estimates. Before, a brand would plan media buys on D1, Libération, TF1 based on cold audience knowledge. Today everything is done in direct, addressable, programmatic ways through digital marketplaces. The world has completely shifted.

The trend of pairing brands with artists is as old as marketing itself — dating back to the late 19th and early 20th century. The idea of combining culture and commerce has accelerated in recent years through digital, with the phenomenon of influence. Artists like Aya Nakamura are not just artists but also brand influencers — that's what brands are looking for. They don't just seek the artistic side; they seek what the artist represents and the audience they address. Having worked on many music-brand pairings — Orange and The Ting Tings, David Guetta and Renault — it's accelerated enormously. Before, it was like the 80s when Pepsi would pay Michael Jackson to recreate a song and it would be performed at the Super Bowl with super-productions, but it was cold, one-directional, no interaction. Now on TikTok, on Snapchat, on social networks, there's real interaction, and there's even the ability to sell products locally. The deal between JUL and Asics is commerce — Asics isn't just seeking JUL's personality but also the capacity of his fans to mobilize and buy a product.

Most of the time it's sponsorship or product launches, but here we have co-creation of a product — something that was done a bit in luxury, what Vuitton and Jeff Koons did, for example, all proportions aside. We're really in that logic now. If we talk about brands and artists — the culture world and the advertising world are in fact the same world, very close in terms of logic and approach. We need French media brands — Nova, Rempart, Chérie FM, Les Charts, of course — and experiential venues. Why? Because these collaborations between artists and brands need to be expressed and embodied in spaces that serve as quality, contextual settings.

What's key, especially for brands and artists expressing themselves through each other, is having contextual, qualitative, cultural spaces capable of carrying these operations and then doing them at scale. That's the essential role — it's really a three-way game. With your artists, you're in that position of going beyond — telling us about the easy link between Pepsi and Michael Jackson from the 80s, which was very powerful at the time, but today we expect brands to show greater awareness, responsibility, and benevolence, which translates into a search for experience and storytelling.

In the 1950s, Unilever and Procter & Gamble created television series as we know them today — they were called soap operas because they were made by soap manufacturers. They produced the great TV series of the era, like Guiding Light which lasted 72 years on American television. Why? Because it was a way to reach an audience that was much more expensive to buy through advertising. Instead of buying ad spots on the major US networks, they produced entire series — completely controlled by them — with exclusive sponsorship in exchange for that content. When we at Lagal and Mattel, when Mattel prepares the Masters of the Universe feature film, when Lego makes its cinema films — Transformers, Paris, etc. — is it brand content, or is it a feature film? It's a bit of both. This hybridization has always existed. Andy Warhol understood it perfectly — he completely embodied stardom in his art. I'd say it's very French to question whether it's good or bad. Anglo-Saxons don't ask that question — for them, art and commerce are essentially the same thing. It's something that interests people, moves them, touches them, and is part of their lives.

And when you spoke earlier, Romain, about artists being mini trend laboratories, with brands drawing closer to them — I think that's a good sign, because it means these two worlds that are supposedly opposed are converging.

We have two open microphones in the same room — let's cut the air on both.

Carole, can you reduce the sound? Geraldine, adjust your sound but not Carole's. Let's try again.

Don't you think that precisely in this crazy, particular post-COVID period, what's missing are the values we've just been talking about — values that are as old as the world, used by brands since the dawn of time — but it's even more true now? I think brands today need and have understood that they must adapt how they speak to their consumers given this crazy period we've just lived through. Heavy-handed consumption is no longer acceptable — consumers are seeking positive values, meaning. At least that's what we try to do at La Régie Publique on a daily basis, and I have the feeling this has been accelerated by the pandemic. Culture has become a familiar universe where brands present themselves to address their communities, as Romain just said. Maybe I'm wrong, it's just a feeling, but I wanted to know what you think — do you share this idea? I'm 100%...

I agree, and I think it's extremely well done. I want to add something important: meaning. I would also add substance. Today margins need to bring meaning—for good and sometimes bad reasons, sometimes purely mercantile. It's not enough to have a good product; it needs to carry an emotional charge, tell a story, and be rooted in values with substance. If Balmain partners with Aya Nakamura—it's the first time a haute couture brand like that has dressed a strong young woman. Usually it's mannequins and other stereotypes. I think it's powerful, and it sends a message that fashion should address everyone. Meaning and substance are fundamental—whether on ecological, societal, racial, equity, or gender equality issues. A brand doing this gains far more in its storytelling than through traditional advertising. Partnering with an artist sends a stronger signal because it embodies the values. If you embody an artistic creation, the message reaches people in a completely different way, and that's what they're looking for.

But that's what you're saying—it's emotion, it's sincerity. I have the feeling that even major mass-market brands are searching for communication in quest of meaning and sincerity. People on the other side aren't blind. Working with culture enables that.

There are many links between the advertising industry, advertising creatives, and the entertainment industry. The third interesting point is something worth sharing—not because it's good content, but because it has meaning and depth, going beyond simple communication. This is what we call 'brand purpose' in our jargon—the reason a brand exists. Many brands have been trying to find this, sometimes artificially. The coronavirus crisis has completely reshuffled the cards. Today consumers don't just expect brands to define a purpose—they expect them to act concretely, through artist engagement, public statements, or media investments. This is my profession. We released ten concrete 'brand responsibility' principles to ensure the media where we buy ad space meet criteria of respect, protection, and inclusion—in content, in data collection, in handling hate speech. We've set up a grid ensuring all our clients—Amazon, Spotify, Mattel, Kronenbourg—can be sure their advertising appears in appropriate contexts. There's nothing worse than doing a great campaign with a committed artist and ending up next to horrible content on YouTube.

We've been talking about the brand-culture link, but there's also the reverse—what culture seeks from brands. We feel brands are currently quite decisive in financing and promoting cultural projects.

In your view, where are we heading? How can culture, brands, and media better support each other in the near or distant future?

That's what Romain was saying about audiences. We know what we're doing when we sell—we develop audiences and ensure we speak to the right ones. You have audiences in mind because creating content and ensuring audiences show up is your business, so you can monetize and offer them to brands. It's really a tripartite game that must be done together. We need strong brand-media partnerships that reinvent themselves. As agencies, we must value working with partners—not just socially, but in audience value and added value.

So it's about finding that balance—capturing what's happening while building a lasting story. Is that balance easy to find?

What I find interesting is that we can now talk about something beyond 'brand content'—it's about brand ownership. What does the brand create as a long-term asset that becomes a relational platform connected to its audiences? What's the fundamental ingredient that makes it continue cultivating the same recipe? Very few brands have managed this for years. Red Bull is the example—they bet on extreme sport because of their energy drink's transgressive side and the self-transcendence aspect. They started producing events and content, selling extreme sport programs to TV channels worldwide. They completely changed their role.

I'm the first to go watch their content—people jumping off cliffs, parachuting into a net at 4,000 meters. It's very attractive content that appeals to people who like taking risks. For Red Bull to arrive with an energy drink in an increasingly sanitized world—where you can't smoke, can't drink—it wasn't easy. In the beginning, they struggled to find audience share.

There's also the fan phenomenon—you can relive the rockstar's life, get into their world. Today with higher resolution, you can do much more. Writing yourself into the long term is important, telling stories is important.

Culture and brands are the same. The more brands speak early to younger generations with values, the more they win. We talk about values, but also the term 'repères'—reference points. Not in a conservative sense, but it seems quite important. We're returning to a society where people need reference points. At Les Inrockuptibles, you know what you'll find; at Nova, you can trust them. There's a very interesting triangle: values, reference points, confidence. Young generations are waiting for this because there's an overproduction of content. We're touched by brands thousands of times per day. How do you stand out? By differentiating, taking risks, telling stories, and finding reference points with strong editorial lines.

Romain, don't you believe that for emerging, given that brands have been working with culture for so long, as Thomas said so well...

I don't see any downside for brands. Thank you very much, we'll have to stop here. We've received some questions for a brief Q&A. First question: Can culture be consumed? Thomas, go ahead, you can start.

Of course, obviously. Well, it depends. Someone once said—often atrocious—'when I hear the word culture, I pull out my gun.' Culture, for me, is everything that's beautiful, everything in the artistic register. An artist who produces cultural elements has to sell them in a certain way. Without Renaissance patrons, you have to sell your art one way or another—there's no choice. You have to find ways to sell culture without losing your soul. The word 'consumption' does imply frenzied capitalism. But the real question is whether paying for art gives us better culture. I think so—it's not something free.

Regarding the word 'consumption'—our friend Loïc had that in mind with this question, and he's right. It's striking that today, when we talk about entertainment or culture, we talk about 'cultural industries.' That proves there's an industry behind it—a professionalizing industry. We need this industry to produce and make culture available to people.

I think we've covered everything. I completely agree—it was really interesting. It connects with what we all experienced during lockdown. When the other disappeared, we found each other again in cultural offerings. Production should ultimately unite us, even when we're not physically together. People singing on their balconies, putting out speakers, neighbors applauding—they were confined but sharing things.

On these beautiful words, we'll have to say goodbye. We've gone a bit over time. Thank you to Thomas Jamet from IPG Medibrands, and thank you to Romain Vivien, CEO of Believe. Thank you so much. Goodbye, thank you for participating, and see you soon.