Hello and welcome to Confessions of a Successful Leader hosted by me, Andrew Talent, the self-coaching expert. In each episode of the show, we hear the insightful confessions of a successful leader who wants to inspire others to live their professional and personal dreams. I am always keen to hear your feedback, particularly in relation to the kinds of leaders you would like me to invite onto the show in future. But for now, sit back, relax, and enjoy the rich insights from our special guest. Hello and welcome to another episode of Confessions of a Successful Leader hosted by me, Andrew Talent, the self-coaching expert. I'm delighted that Francesca Lagerberg has joined me in the studio today. Welcome, Francesca.
We're pleased to be here.
Yeah, we're looking forward to hearing your story today. Our audience is used to by now just hearing about our guest in terms of their own words. So, please tell us a little bit about yourself.
So, I am the CEO of a top 10 global accounting firm called Baker Tilly International. I've been in professional services for a very long time. I used to be a bit of a tax person, but now I'm more of a leader person. And I also have the joy of three kids, two dogs, and a very understanding husband.
Excellent. And what breeds are the dogs? I always love hearing about dogs.
One is an English Springer Spaniel and one is a cockapoo. They're both working dogs and they're an absolute joy and a total menace in equal measure.
But they will prolong your life.
Sometimes I think they'll reduce my life, but we'll see.
So, it's very normal for our guests to explain as you've done there. So when you're not working, and I know international roles are very busy, but when you're not working, how do you down tools? How do you switch off?
I spend loads of time walking. I love walking with the dogs. I love the cinema and theater. Any kind of drama is very appealing. And I love spending time with my children. They're all adults now, so if I'm lucky enough for them to spend some time with me, that is a great joy. They all have very busy lives now, but I sneak in there still from time to time.
Well, I'm very lucky. I have a 30-year-old daughter and she's now mother to two children, so I've got two little grandchildren as well, which is lovely. So spending time with them. So your time will come around that.
Yeah. Well, thank you for that. So let's go way back. This show is all about how the earliest experiences that we can remember and into our teens inform our leadership style and how that changes over time and what kind of challenges that presents. So take us back to the earliest experiences that you can remember that shaped your leadership style.
Yes, I was pondering this because you sent me the questions in advance, which was very kind. I suppose the biggest thing about my childhood was the position I was in in my family. I am the youngest of four. I think there's something intriguing about the fourth child because there often isn't a fourth child. There might be a second or a third, but fourth is unusual. There was a bit of a gap and then they had me. So I always thought in our household that everyone had a role except I never did. There was a role for the first born who happened to be incredibly clever, so they took the clever role. There was one boy, so he always had that role. And I had a very glamorous sister. And then there was me. I think there was something quite intriguing about being the fourth. Your parents are shattered by that stage, so it's amazing they can remember your name. There was not a logical spot for me, and that was both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because it gave me huge freedom from a young age to not fit into a pre-organized role, but also a disadvantage because you were never quite sure where you fit into things. I think that permeated through into my working career.
Yeah. So tell us a bit more about that, maybe into your teens. It's quite interesting that environment you've described. What kind of role models did you have outside of that family dynamic that you leaned towards? I think at that stage, role modeling was very much predicated at my school. My family were very big on education, for which I'm extremely grateful. They were very keen for us to be well educated. That didn't involve any fancy education, we just went to a good old state school, but they really encouraged us to work hard and do well. I'm really grateful for that. That meant I had a strong connection with the school because I was one of those people who actually like learning. From a teachers perspective, it's like thank goodness someone actually wants to be here. I loved school, everything about it. There was huge role modeling around the teachers I spent time with, their encouragement, and their interest in helping me do the things I wasn't sure I wanted to do. They did extra lessons, extra encouragement to do extra qualifications. They were fantastic. I really loved every minute of school. I preferred being at school than at home because by the time I was getting into my teenage years, most of my siblings had left home or were about to leave, so there wasn't anyone of my age around. School was a lot of...
So let's talk a little bit then because you said you weren't sure about what to do. What's the earliest age that you can remember having some kind of dream, whatever that might be?
Well, in terms of realistic career ambitions, that was quite a long way after most people perhaps come up with those. I wanted to be a writer. That's what I wanted to be. I love creative writing and I still love it today. But it's not the easiest profession to be in, a little competition. In terms of a proper job, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I would say that was true throughout my twenties. In fact, it was well into my forties where I really worked out what I wanted to do. But I got some great opportunities. I don't think I ever had the 'I'm going to be this' moment. It's a touch of the reverse of the Monty Python sketch. You know, I want to run away from the circus and become an accountant. I ended up being an accountant, but I don't think I ever made a conscious decision that that was going to be my career. It took a long time before I realized it's a very cool profession and you can do a lot with it. But it wasn't something I had a bolt of lightning view. I think I more fell into it than intentionally focused on it.
Well, let's talk about your twenties then. We all know how difficult it can be in the accounting profession in terms of long hours, pressure, deadlines. In your twenties, that can be quite challenging. So talk to us about that decade and what kind of challenges you were facing from a leadership perspective.
No, for sure. The first bit of my twenties I was just finishing studying. I really liked studying so I dragged that on for as long as possible. I finished off a law degree and I did another law qualification, then I went traveling for a year, which is one of the most enjoyable things I've ever done. I was postponing any degree of working for as long as possible. I did a gap year when people didn't really do gap years so frequently. That was an absolute joy because you were doing something that felt like you were exploring the world in a very different way. You had a backpack on, stayed in crazy places. If you liked somewhere you spent weeks, if you didn't you left. That whole freedom was extraordinary. It gave me a real passion for traveling and opened my eyes to the fact that the world I'd grown up in was a very small part of the Black Country in the West Midlands. There was this big crazy extraordinary world out there, and that changed my whole life experience. Then I needed a job and the accounting world had kindly offered me one. That's probably the only thing that was recruiting in the late 80s when I was going for a job. I couldn't believe the difference from immense educational freedom and traveling to a proper job that involved nine to well, let's be honest, eight or nine, very long hours. I was studying to be a chartered accountant, which is grueling in its own way. I was in a very rigorous environment in a big four firm. The first half of my twenties and the last half were very different. All I knew was I hadn't quite found what was going to be right for me. It was good pay, great people. The people around me were amazing, some of which I'm still friends with. But I just knew this particular variation on a theme wasn't working for me. I was looking for what next. I haven't got a clue what next was. I have not had a career that's gone like that, that's never been the pattern. So towards the end of my twenties, I left that big firm and the security and went to work in a publishing house, which is wonderfully underpaid but very creative. That creative writing piece came out again. I stayed there for five years and had the extraordinary advantage of being in a small magazine within a big organization where you were running the publication. It played to some of the accounting things I'd been doing, but also creative writing, lobbying, talking to government, and my first steps into public speaking. So my twenties were very much a roller coaster of fabulous freedom, no freedom at all, and then a new door opening into a very different one.
It's really interesting because what I'm hearing from you, Francesca, is that in your family environment you didn't necessarily know what role was natural for you. You had the role at school and played to that, then you went off after studying to have freedom around the world, then back into 'what's my role, not sure if this is right', and then back into that again. So talk to us about how you cope with those lows where you've had such highs and feeling that freedom. How did you actually cope with those difficult moments?
Well, during the early days of accounting, you're so focused on passing your exams. You have this relentless tunnel taking you forward. Also, if you didn't pass, you were out. There wasn't much of a safety net. You had to pass. So I was focused on that. There was a little touch of Dunkirk spirit because you were surrounded by a large cadre of people going through the same thing. It was hard work but we also had a lot of fun. We were all in our twenties, going through this experience together, and that kept me going. But my focus on my career was very secondary to passing the exams and getting through that bit. I took a view that I didn't want to be an auditor. So I took every secondment that was on offer. Literally everything, if there was a secondment for a day, I'd do it. I did a lot of secondments. I'm grateful to the big four organization because it gave me that flexibility. That's what kept me going, because it was changing and interesting. But then I'd have to come back and do the thing I needed to do. So it was about finding release within that structure. Then taking the decision to leave it behind and go into something completely hopeless from a career point of view but delightful and a great opportunity.
Well, this is the balance, isn't it? A lot of people listening think, 'Do I have to have one or the other? Do I have to have something I feel passionate about where I belong and am adding value, but maybe not having the earning capacity? Or do I not sell myself but go have the earning and still not be happy or feel I'm adding value?' It's a very common thing I come across. So talk to us then about the next decade or so and the pace, because I'm guessing it's going to be quite interesting with family coming along. So talk to us about what happened then.
