Co-Founder, Technoking of Tesla, Chief Executive Officer & Director, Tesla
Elon Musk on OpenAI, Starship, Cybertruck and the Future of Space
Elon Musk joins Joe Rogan for a wide-ranging conversation about OpenAI, unexplained events, interstellar objects, SpaceX and the future of human exploration.
They discuss the questions surrounding an OpenAI whistleblower, the possibility of extraterrestrial life, dangerous objects traveling through space, and Joe Rogan’s visit to SpaceX. Elon also explains how Starship works, why reusable rockets matter, what it would take to build a permanent Moon base, and the engineering behind the Cybertruck.
The conversation ends with Elon teasing a mysterious new Tesla product that has not yet been pub...
About Elon Musk
In June 2026, SpaceX went public on the Nasdaq under the ticker SPCX in what was described as the largest initial public offering in history. Musk, speaking at the IPO event, said he had initially given SpaceX less than a 10% chance of succeeding. He stated that the company's goal is to "take the fiction out of science fiction" and make humanity a multi-planetary civilization. Musk said SpaceX wants to be able to take "anyone who wants to go to the moon, anyone who wants to go to Mars, or anywhere in the solar system" and not just a few astronauts. He also said that "there are always problems on Earth" that should be solved, but that there also need to be things that "get you excited about the future." In a separate interview with SpaceX employees, Musk discussed plans to build and operate AI satellites in space, describing them as simpler than Starlink satellites. He said the company aims to launch a million tons of mass to orbit per year within about three years using Starship. Musk also mentioned a long-term concept of using a mass driver on the Moon to accelerate AI satellites into deep space. In other appearances, Musk discussed Neuralink's brain-computer interface, stating that the first product, called "Telepathy," allows a patient to control a computer by thinking. He also predicted that artificial general intelligence could arrive around 2029 or 2030, when digital compute may exceed the cumulative biological compute of higher-level brain functions.
Transcript (401 segments)
J
Joe Rogan0:01
Joe, good mic test. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. EXACTLY. Just every morning. What do we do Jeff Bezos is doing? Definitely doing some test afterwards. He looks jacked. He looks jacked, right? Yeah, but he didn't like Quick. Quick. Quick. Yeah. Yeah. He got jacked quick. At age like 50 at 50 at age 59 in less than a year, he went from pencil-neck geek to looking like a miniature like The Rock. Yeah, like a little miniature alpha fella. Yeah, like his neck got bigger than his head. Yeah. He got bigger quick. But then like his earlier pictures, his neck's like a noodle. I support this activity. I'd like to see him going in this direction. Which is fine, and his voice dropped like two octaves. I want you to move in that direction as well. I think we can achieve this. I I I mean I I should I think we can achieve gigachad. That's what people called it. Where is that guy?
J
Jamie0:56
People? Uh I don't know where he is.
J
Joe Rogan0:58
That's like a real guy.
J
Jamie1:00
An artist? Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan1:02
No, no, gigachad.
J
Jamie1:04
Oh, gigachad. Yeah, I don't know if that's a real guy. It's hard
J
Joe Rogan1:05
No, no, he's a real guy.
J
Jamie1:06
It is a real guy?
J
Joe Rogan1:07
Yeah. He's got the crazy jaw and like perfect sculpted hair. Yeah.
Well, I mean, they may have exaggerated a little bit, but
J
Jamie1:11
Probably.
J
Joe Rogan1:13
But uh no, I think I think he actually just kind of looked like that in reality.
J
Jamie1:15
Wow.
J
Joe Rogan1:16
Um so Like like he's he's a pretty unique-looking individual.
I think we can achieve this.
J
Jamie1:21
That guy right there? That's a real guy?
That's a real dude?
I always thought that was CGI.
J
Joe Rogan1:27
No, I think one of the I think the upper right one is not.
J
Jamie1:30
Damn, that's not real.
J
Joe Rogan1:31
But that one to the left of that, like that's real? No, that's that's artificial, bro. That's fake. That's got that uncanny valley feel to it. Doesn't it?
J
Jamie1:39
It's it's not impossible.
J
Joe Rogan1:40
No. No, it's not possible to achieve, but it's not it's not possible to maintain that kind of leanness.
J
Jamie1:45
No, no, I mean, that's like like you're you're you're also like at that point you're there there he's dehydrating and all sorts of things.
J
Joe Rogan1:50
Oh, it's based on a real person.
J
Jamie1:52
Yeah, yeah, based on this
J
Joe Rogan1:53
Right, but it's not a real person.
J
Jamie1:54
What's he really look like?
J
Joe Rogan1:55
Images, I think are some of them are real. Is that real? Okay, that real that looks real. That looks like a really jack bodybuilder.
J
Jamie2:03
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan2:03
Yeah, that looks real. Like that's achievable, but there's a few of those images where you're just like what's going on here?
J
Jamie2:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Um Well, I mean you see you see that
J
Joe Rogan2:13
Is that Is that the ice
J
Jamie2:14
That's the real dude.
J
Joe Rogan2:15
Well, this that that Icelandic dude who's tall
J
Jamie2:18
Oh, yeah, the guy who jumps in the frozen lakes and stuff
J
Joe Rogan2:20
Well, the guy who played the mountain. Um
J
Jamie2:22
Oh, that guy.
J
Joe Rogan2:23
That is That is like a That is like a a mutant strong human.
J
Jamie2:26
Yes.
J
Joe Rogan2:27
Like like he'd be in like the X-Men or something, you know? We were hanging out He's just like not like uh And then there's that You know that Have you seen that meme? Tent and tent bag.
J
Jamie2:37
No.
J
Joe Rogan2:37
Um You know how like it's like it's really hard to get the tent tent in the bag.
J
Jamie2:45
That's true.
J
Joe Rogan2:45
a picture of of him and his girlfriend
J
Jamie2:48
Oh, right. Tent bag.
J
Joe Rogan2:51
Yeah, that's his wife.
J
Jamie2:52
know how it gets in there, you know? It's like it seems too small, but
J
Joe Rogan2:55
I met Brian Shaw. Brian Shaw is like the world's most powerful man and he's almost 7 ft tall. He's 400 lb. And his his bone density is one in 500 million people. So, there's one It's like there's like maybe 16 people. He's an enormous human being. Like a legitimate giant. Like just like that guy. But we met him. He was hanging out with us in the green room of the mothership. It's like, okay, if this is like David and Goliath days, like this is an actual giant. Like the giants in the
J
Jamie3:25
bible.
J
Joe Rogan3:25
Once in a while you get a super giant person. This is a real a real one. Like not a tall skinny basketball player. Like a 7-ft 400-lb powerlifter. Like you don't want to especially That's the guy. See if there's a photo of him standing next to like a regular human. There it is. That's him right there. Like there's like there's like one of him with next to standing next to Arnold and stuff. It's where and all Everyone just looks tiny. I mean I think he's a pretty cool dude, actually.
J
Jamie3:48
Oh, Brian's very cool. Very smart, too. And usually you know, you expect anybody to be that big it's got to be a
J
Joe Rogan3:53
Yeah. no. But uh yeah.
There was There was under the giant who was awesome. You know, he was great he was great in Princess Bride.
J
Jamie4:00
No, he was just awesome period.
J
Joe Rogan4:01
Yeah, yeah.
So, we were talking about this interview with Sam Altman and Tucker and I was like we should probably just talk about this on the air cuz it is one of the craziest interviews I think I've ever seen in my life.
J
Jamie4:12
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan4:13
Where Tucker starts bringing up this guy who was like a whistleblower who, you know, committed suicide but doesn't look like it. And he's talking to Sam Altman about this and Sam Altman was like, 'Are you accusing me?' He's like, 'No, no, no. I'm not. I'm just saying I I think someone killed him.'
J
Jamie4:31
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan4:31
And like it should be investigated.
J
Jamie4:33
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan4:33
Um not just drop the case.
J
Jamie4:35
It seems like
J
Joe Rogan4:37
They just dropped the case. Yeah, yeah.
But his parents think he was murdered. Um the wires to a security camera were cut.
J
Jamie4:43
Blood in two rooms.
J
Joe Rogan4:44
Blood in two rooms. Someone else's wig was in the room.
J
Jamie4:46
Someone else's wig.
J
Joe Rogan4:47
Wig.
J
Jamie4:48
Wig. Yeah. Not normal. Not normal to have a wig laying around.
J
Joe Rogan4:52
Yes. Um and and he ordered DoorDash right before allegedly committing suicide.
J
Jamie4:58
Uh which is seems unusual. You know.
J
Joe Rogan5:00
Yeah.
It's like you know, let's I'm going to order pizza on second thoughts I'll kill myself. Uh it it seems like that's a very rapid change in mindset.
J
Jamie5:08
It's very weird and especially the parents have they they don't believe he committed suicide at all.
J
Joe Rogan5:13
Has no note or anything.
J
Jamie5:14
No.
J
Joe Rogan5:15
Yeah.
It seems pretty up and you know, the idea that a whistleblower for an enormous AI company that's worth billions of dollars might get whacked. That's not outside the pale.
J
Jamie5:25
I mean it's straight out of a movie.
J
Joe Rogan5:26
Right out of a movie but right out of a movie is real sometimes.
J
Jamie5:29
Yeah, right. Exactly. Right? It's a little weird that I think I think they should do a proper investigation. Like what's the downside on that proper investigation?
J
Joe Rogan5:37
Right. No.
J
Jamie5:38
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan5:38
For sure. But the whole exchange is so bizarre.
J
Jamie5:42
Yeah, yeah. So, it is
J
Joe Rogan5:43
Sam Altman's reaction to being accused of murder is bizarre.
Look, I don't know if he's guilty, but it's not possible to look any more guilty.
So, I'm like,
J
Jamie5:53
Or look more weird.
J
Joe Rogan5:54
Yeah.
You know, maybe it's just his social thing. Like, maybe he's just odd with confrontation and it just goes blank. You know? But, if if somebody was accusing me of killing Jamie, like if Jamie was a whistleblower and Jamie got whacked and then I'd be like, 'Wait, what do you What are you Are you accusing me of killing my friend? Like, what the are you talking about?' I would I would be a little bit more irate.
J
Jamie6:17
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, it'd be a little upset.
J
Joe Rogan6:21
Yeah, you'd be like Well, you'd be like you'd certainly insist on a thorough investigation.
J
Jamie6:26
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan6:26
As opposed to trying to sweep it under the rug.
Yeah, I wouldn't assume that he got that he committed suicide. I would be suspicious if if Tucker was telling me that aspect of the story, I'd be like, 'That does seem like a murder. we should look into this.'
J
Jamie6:37
I mean, all signs point to it being a murder. Not Not saying, you know, someone didn't have anything to do with the murder, but
J
Joe Rogan6:42
Blood in two rooms.
J
Jamie6:43
It's uh blood in two rooms. And like Yeah, this this The wires to the security camera and the door dash being ordered right before suicide, no suicide note, his parents think uh he was murdered and uh the people that I know who knew him said he was not suicidal.
J
Joe Rogan6:58
So, I'm like, this why would you be jump to the conclusion?
J
Jamie7:01
have sued the uh
J
Joe Rogan7:02
They sued the son's landlord. Allegedly, the owners and the managers of their son's San Francisco apartment building were part of a widespread cover-up of his death.
J
Jamie7:08
The landlord?
J
Joe Rogan7:09
Yeah, there's a bunch of weird They said there was like packages missing from the building. Some people said they saw packages still being delivered and all of a sudden they all disappeared.
J
Jamie7:16
Huh.
J
Joe Rogan7:16
But, that could be People steal people's packages all the time.
J
Jamie7:19
pirate situation.
J
Joe Rogan7:20
Yeah.
J
Jamie7:21
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan7:21
They They failed to to safeguard
J
Jamie7:23
Also, I mean, the amount of trauma those poor parents have gone through with their son dying like that. I mean, it must God bless them. And how could they stay sane after something like that? They're probably They're so grief-stricken. Who knows what they believe at this point?
J
Joe Rogan7:37
Yeah. It It It should have asked if Epstein killed himself.
J
Jamie7:42
Yeah. Well, that's the the cash the cash damn bunch of trying to convince everybody that. Like okay.
J
Joe Rogan7:49
The guards weren't there and the camera stopped working and um you know.
J
Jamie7:54
The guards were asleep. The cameras weren't working. He had a a giant steroid up bodybuilder guy that he was sharing a cell with that was a murderer who was a bad cop.
J
Joe Rogan8:04
Like all of it's kind of nuts. All of it's kind of nuts. Like that he would just kill himself rather than reveal all of his billionaire friends.
J
Jamie8:12
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan8:13
And then
Did you see Tim Dylan talking to Chris Cuomo about this?
J
Jamie8:16
I did.
J
Joe Rogan8:17
He like yeah he like Chris Cuomo just looks so stupid.
J
Jamie8:20
Tim just listed off all the
J
Joe Rogan8:21
Tim just and he's like I agree it is strange. Like of course it's strange Chris. Jesus Christ. You can't just go with the tide. You got to think things through and if you think that one through you're like I don't think he killed himself. Nobody does. You don't have to work for an intelligence agency to think he killed himself.
J
Jamie8:38
It does it does seem unlikely.
J
Joe Rogan8:40
It seems highly unlikely. Highly highly unlikely. All roads point to murder.
J
Jamie8:46
Yes.
J
Joe Rogan8:46
Point to they had to get rid of him because he knew too much. Whatever the he was doing. Whatever kind of an asset he was. Whatever thing he was up to. You know it was apparently very effective and a lot of people were compromised.
You see your boy Bill Gates is now saying climate change is not a big deal. Like relax everybody. I know I scared the out of you for the last decade and a half but we're going to be fine.
J
Jamie9:10
Yeah. I mean
J
Joe Rogan9:13
you know as I was saying as I was saying just before coming into the studio with you know like every day there's some crazy wild new thing that's happening. It's like it feels like reality is accelerating.
J
Jamie9:21
It's every day and every day it's like more and more ridiculous to the point where the simulation is more and more undeniable.
J
Joe Rogan9:29
Yeah yeah it really feels like simulation you know. It's like come on what are the odds that this could be the case you know.
J
Jamie9:33
Are you paying attention at all to 3 I Atlas? Are you watching the comet?
J
Joe Rogan9:36
Yeah whatever it is.
J
Jamie9:37
Yeah, yeah. I mean
J
Joe Rogan9:41
I mean one thing I can say is like look, I if if I was aware of any evidence of aliens um you Joe, you have my word. I will come on your show and I will reveal it on the show.
J
Jamie9:52
Okay.
J
Joe Rogan9:52
Yeah.
J
Jamie9:53
That's a good deal.
J
Joe Rogan9:54
Yeah, it's pretty good deal.
J
Jamie9:55
I believe you. Yeah, thank you.
J
Joe Rogan9:56
Yeah, I mean I'll I'll I'll stick to I I keep my you know, keep my promises. So
J
Jamie9:59
All right.
J
Joe Rogan9:59
Yeah.
J
Jamie10:00
Uh yeah.
J
Joe Rogan10:01
Yeah, I don't
J
Jamie10:01
And
J
Joe Rogan10:01
I'm never committing to a suicide to be clear.
J
Jamie10:04
I don't think you would.
J
Joe Rogan10:05
So on the camera guys, I am never committing to a suicide ever.
J
Jamie10:09
If someone says you committed suicide,
J
Joe Rogan10:10
I will fight tooth and nail. I will fight tooth and nail. I will I will not believe it. I will not believe it.
The thing about the 3i Atlas is it's It's a terrible name actually.
J
Jamie10:19
Yeah, it's a third
J
Joe Rogan10:20
like It sounds like third eye or something.
J
Jamie10:21
Yeah, it does. 3i is third It's only the third interstellar object that's detected.
J
Joe Rogan10:27
Okay.
J
Jamie10:27
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan10:31
Avi Loeb was on the podcast a couple days ago talking about it.
J
Jamie10:33
Yeah. I mean it could be on his I don't know, but
J
Joe Rogan10:36
Apparently today they're saying that it's changed course. Did you see that Jamie? Avi Loeb said something today. I'll send it to you. Um Uh I know it's not Reddit. Here you go Jamie. I'll send it to you right now. Um it's fascinating. It's fascinating also because it's made almost entirely of nickel, whatever it is. And the only way that exists here is industrial alloys apparently.
J
Jamie11:02
Um they must know there are there are they're definitely uh comets that and asteroids that are made primarily of nickel. In fact Yeah, so the the places where um you mine nickel on Earth is actually where there was an asteroid or comet that hit Earth that was a nickel rich uh you know, asteroid
J
Joe Rogan11:19
Wow, and you have giant nickel rich rich deposit?
J
Jamie11:21
Yeah, that's the that's that's it's coming Those are from impacts. You you definitely didn't want to be there at the time cuz anything would have been obliterated.
J
Joe Rogan11:27
Right.
J
Jamie11:28
But that's that's where the the sources of nickel and cobalt are these days.
J
Joe Rogan11:31
So this is Avi Loeb. A few hours ago, the first hint of non-gravitational acceleration that something other than gravity is affecting its acceleration, meaning something is affecting its trajectory beyond gravity was indicated. Interesting. Dun, dun, dun.
J
Jamie11:46
So, it's mostly nickel, very little iron. Which, uh, he was saying, uh, is on Earth, uh, only exists in alloys.
J
Joe Rogan11:55
But, whatever, you're dealing with another planet.
J
Jamie11:57
This this There are There are There are cases where there's very nickel-rich, uh, asteroids made out of that that that that happen to be from space.
J
Joe Rogan12:04
Yeah, this is only Yeah, it doesn't mean it's It would It would be a very sort of heavy spaceship to be made it all out of nickel.
J
Jamie12:09
Oh, yeah.
J
Joe Rogan12:10
And huge, the size of Manhattan and all nickel, that's kind of nuts.
J
Jamie12:13
Yeah, that's a heavy spaceship.
J
Joe Rogan12:14
That's a real problem if it hits.
J
Jamie12:16
Uh, yes. No, it would It would like obliterate a continent type of thing. Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan12:20
Maybe maybe it was.
J
Jamie12:21
Yeah, probably kill most of human life.
J
Joe Rogan12:23
Um,
J
Jamie12:24
If not all of us.
J
Joe Rogan12:24
I've not looked at it. Depends on what the the total mass is, but, um, there's I mean, the thing is like in the fossil record, there are, um, you know, there's like arguably arguably five major extinction events. Um, like the biggest one of which is the Permian extinction, uh, where, um, almost all life was eliminated. That that actually occurred over several million several million years. Um, the there's the Jurassic. I think Jurassic is I think that one's pretty definitively an asteroid. Um, and, um, but there's but there's been five major extinction events, but, um, but what they don't count are really the ones that merely take out a continent. So, they
J
Jamie12:57
Merely?
J
Joe Rogan12:58
Yeah, cuz that that cuz those those don't really show up on the fossil record, you know.
J
Jamie13:01
Right.
J
Joe Rogan13:02
Um, so, unless it's enough to cause a, uh, you know, mass extinction event throughout Earth, it it doesn't show up, you know, in a fossil record that's, uh, 200 million years old. Um, so, the, uh, yeah, but but there there've been many, um, many impacts that would have sort of destroyed all life on, you know, let's say half of North America or something like that. There have been many such impacts uh, through the course of history.
J
Jamie13:26
Yeah, and there's nothing we can do about it right now.
J
Joe Rogan13:29
Yeah, there was one that um hits there was a one that hit Siberia and destroyed I think um 300 square miles.
J
Jamie13:36
Oh, that's the Tunguska.
J
Joe Rogan13:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
J
Jamie13:38
Yeah, that's the one from the 1920s, right?
J
Joe Rogan13:39
Yeah.
J
Jamie13:40
Yeah, that's the one that coincides with that meteor that comets storm that we go through every June and every November that they think is responsible for that Younger Dryas impact.
J
Joe Rogan13:50
Yeah.
J
Jamie13:50
Yeah. All that shit's crazy. Um
J
Joe Rogan13:53
thank you before we go any further for letting us have a tour of SpaceX
E
Elon Musk13:57
You're welcome.
J
Joe Rogan13:58
and letting us be there for the rocket launch.
E
Elon Musk13:59
Sure.
J
Joe Rogan14:00
One of the absolute coolest things I've ever seen in my life. And we we've we were we thought it was only like I thought it was a half a mile. Jamie's like it was a mile away. Turns out it's almost 2 miles away.
E
Elon Musk14:11
And you feel it in your chest.
J
Joe Rogan14:12
Yeah, it's
E
Elon Musk14:13
You have to wear earplugs.
J
Joe Rogan14:14
And you feel it in your chest and it's 2 miles away.
E
Elon Musk14:16
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan14:17
It was amazing. And then to go with you up into the command center and to watch all the Starlink satellites with all the different cameras and all in real time as it made its way all the way to Australia. How many minutes? Like 35, 40 minutes?
E
Elon Musk14:31
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan14:32
Wild. Watch it touch down in Australia.
E
Elon Musk14:34
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan14:34
crazy. It was amazing.
E
Elon Musk14:37
yeah.
J
Joe Rogan14:37
Absolutely amazing.
E
Elon Musk14:38
The Starship's awesome. Um and anyone can go watch the launch actually. So you can just go to um South Padre Island and get a a great view of the launch. Um so it's like where a lot of spring breakers go.
J
Jamie14:48
Mhm.
E
Elon Musk14:49
But um but we're we're flying pretty frequently um out of Starbase in South Texas. And we're we're we've formally incorporated as a city. So it's it's actually a a legally a an actual legal city, Starbase, Texas. Um it's not that often you hear like, 'Hey, we made a city, you know.' Um that used to be like the like in in the old days like a startup would be you go and gather a bunch of people and say, 'Hey, let's go make a town.' Literally. That was like that would have been startups in in in in the old days. Um
J
Joe Rogan15:12
Or a country.
E
Elon Musk15:13
Yeah, or a country.
J
Joe Rogan15:13
Yeah.
E
Elon Musk15:14
Yeah, yeah, actually.
J
Joe Rogan15:14
You you try doing that today, there'd be a real problem.
E
Elon Musk15:17
Yeah, there's things that are so much so much set in stone on the country front these days more or less, it off, You to pull it off. If you got a a solid island, you might be able to pull it off.
J
Joe Rogan15:25
I think it's
E
Elon Musk15:26
Probably.
J
Joe Rogan15:27
You know, like like Larry Ellison owns Lanai.
E
Elon Musk15:30
Yeah, you could probably
J
Joe Rogan15:30
Is this it right here?
E
Elon Musk15:31
If you had enough paper into it, you could make a new country.
J
Joe Rogan15:33
This is one of the different ones. This is the one of the ones that you catch. Right?
E
Elon Musk15:36
Or is that one Yeah, that's that's the booster. So, that's the super heavy booster. Uh so, that's the one with the boosters got 33 engines. Um That that's uh um and it's you know, by by version four, that will have about 10,000 tons of thrust. Um you know, right now it's about 7, 8,000 tons of thrust. Um but it's it's the largest flying object ever made.
J
Joe Rogan15:56
I had to explain to someone Well, they were going, 'Why do they blow up all the time if you're so smart?' Cuz there was the There was this idiot on television. Some guy was being interviewed and they were talking about you and he goes, 'Oh, I think he's a fuckwit.' And he goes, 'He's a fuckwit.' And he goes, 'Why do you say he's a fuckwit?' 'Oh, his rockets keep blowing up.' And someone said, 'Yeah, well, why do his rockets blow?' And I had to explain, 'Because it's the only way you find out what the tolerances are. You have to You have to'
E
Elon Musk16:16
to explore the corners of the box. So, so like So, when you do a a new uh rocket development program, um you you got you have to uh do what's called the uh you know, exploring the limits of the corners of the box, where you say it's like you worst case this, worst case that, um to figure out um uh where where the limits are. So, uh you you blow up, you know, not not Admittedly, in the development process, sometimes blows up accidentally. Um But but we intentionally subject it to uh uh you know, a a flight regime that is much worse than what we expect in normal flight, so that when we put people on board or valuable cargo, it doesn't blow up. Um so um So, so for example, for the the flight that you saw, we we actually deliberately took um heat shield tiles off the the ship, the star off of starship, in in some of the worst locations, to say, 'Okay, if we lose a heat shield tile here, is it is it catastrophic or is it not?' Um and we will Nonetheless, uh starship was able to do a soft landing um in uh in the Indian Ocean, just uh west of Australia. Um which is And it got there from Texas in like, I don't know 35 40 minutes type of thing. So
J
Joe Rogan17:19
So it landed even though you put it through this situation where it was compromised shield.
E
Elon Musk17:24
It it had an an an unusually we we we we brought it in hot like an an extra hot trajectory with missing tiles to see if it would still make it to a soft landing which it did. Now I I just want to add it did have there were some holes that were burnt into it. But it's it was robust enough to land despite having some holes burnt in it you know but the Yeah. Cuz it's coming it's coming in like a blazing meteor. You can see you can see the real time video.
J
Joe Rogan17:48
Well tell me the speed again because the the speed was bananas. You were talking about
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Elon Musk17:52
17,000 miles an hour. Like well cool like like my 25 times the speed of sound or thereabouts. So um the so so think about it like it's it's like 12 times faster than a bullet from an assault rifle. You know bullets from assault rifles are around Mach 2.
J
Joe Rogan18:06
And it's and it's huge.
Yeah. [laughter]
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Elon Musk18:10
Yeah. Or if you compare it to like a bullet from a .45 or a 9 mil which is subsonic, that's you know it'll be about 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun.
J
Joe Rogan18:20
30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun and it's the size of a skyscraper.
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Elon Musk18:23
Yes.
J
Joe Rogan18:25
[laughter] Yeah. That's fast. It's so wild. It's so wild to see, man. It's so exciting. This factory is so exciting too because genuinely no [ __ ], I felt like I was witnessing history. I felt like it was a scene in a movie where someone had expectations and they go like, 'What are they doing?' They're building rockets and you go there and as we're walking through, Jamie, you could speak to this too. Didn't you have the feeling where you're like, 'Oh, this is way bigger than I thought it was.' This is
J
Jamie18:54
It's awesome. I can't even [ __ ] crazy.
J
Joe Rogan18:56
That's what she said. The [laughter] The amount of rockets you're making.
J
Jamie19:01
But I don't know if you can 10 10 back. [laughter]
J
Joe Rogan19:03
Gigachad in the house. I'm this is way bigger than... It's a giant metal dick. You're [ __ ] [ __ ] the [laughter] universe with your giant metal dick. That's what it is.
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Elon Musk19:11
Yeah. But yeah, it is very big.
J
Joe Rogan19:14
And [clears throat] the sheer numbers of them that you guys are making. And then this is a version and you have a new updated version that's coming soon.
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Elon Musk19:22
Uh yeah, it's a little longer. Um
J
Joe Rogan19:25
More pointy?
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Elon Musk19:26
Uh it's the same amount of pointy. Um but there's it's got a bit more length. Um the inner stage, you see that inner stage section with the kind of like the grill area?
J
Joe Rogan19:35
Mhm.
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Elon Musk19:36
Um that's now integrated with the boost stage. Um so we do what's called hot staging where we light the ship engines while it's still attached to the booster. So the booster engines are still thrusting and so it's still being pushed forward by the booster of the ship. Uh but then we light the ship engines and the ship engines actually pull away from the booster even though the booster engines are still firing.
J
Joe Rogan19:58
Whoa.
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Elon Musk19:58
Um so it's blasting flame through that grill section where we integrate the grill section into the boost stage with the next version of the rocket. Um and the next version of the rocket will have the Raptor 3 engines which are a huge improvement. Um you may have seen them in the lobby because we've got the Raptor 1, 2, and 3. And you can see the dramatic improvement in simplicity. Um we should probably put a plaque there to also show how much we reduced the weight, the cost, and improved the efficiency and the thrust. So the Raptor 3 has almost twice the thrust of Raptor 1.
J
Joe Rogan20:38
Wow.
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Elon Musk20:38
So that you see Raptor 3 looks like it's got parts missing, right?
J
Joe Rogan20:43
And how many of them are on the rocket? How many How many of them are on the rocket?
E
Elon Musk20:46
There's 33 on the booster.
J
Joe Rogan20:49
Whoa.
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Elon Musk20:50
Um and each Raptor engine is producing twice as much thrust as all four engines on a 747.
J
Joe Rogan20:59
Wow.
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Elon Musk21:00
So that engine is smaller than a 747 engine but it's producing, you know, it would um we're almost times the thrust of a 747 engine. Um So, extremely high power-to-weight ratio. Um And um
J
Joe Rogan21:16
And so, when
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Elon Musk21:17
of them.
J
Joe Rogan21:17
You do when you So, when you're designing these, you get to Raptor 1, you see its efficiency, you see where you can improve it, you get to Raptor 2. How many How far can you scale this up with just the same sort of technology with propellant and ignition and engines? Like, how much further can you
E
Elon Musk21:33
I mean, we're pushing the limits of physics here. Um so um And and really in order to make a fully reusable orbital rocket, which no one has succeeded in doing yet, including us. Um but but Starship is the first time that there is a design for a rocket where full and rapid reusability is actually possible. So, there's not even been a design before where it was possible. So, you know, not a design that got made any hardware at all. Um Just we live on a planet where the gravity is quite high. Um and if the gravity was even 10 or 20% higher, we'd be stuck on Earth forever. Um Like, we could not use conventional rockets. You'd have to blow yourself off the surface with a nuclear bomb or something crazy. Um So, on the other hand, if Earth's gravity was just a little lower, like even 10 20% lower, then getting to orbit would be easy. So, it's like if this was a video game, it's set to maximum difficulty, but not impossible.
J
Joe Rogan22:41
Okay.
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Elon Musk22:42
Um so, that's where we are. So, it's not as though others have ignored the concept of reusability, they've just concluded that it was too difficult to achieve. Uh and we've been working on this for a long time at SpaceX. Um And um You know, I'm the chief engineer of the company. Um although I should say that we have an extremely talented engineering team. I think we've got the best rocket engineering team that has ever been assembled. Um it's an honor to work with such incredible people. Um So, it's fair to say that we have not yet succeeded in achieving full reusability, but we at last have a rocket where full reusability is possible. Um and I think we'll achieve it next year. So, that's a really big deal. And the reason that's such a big deal is that full reusability drops the cost of access to space by a hundred. Um maybe even more than a hundred, actually. So, it could be like a thousand. You can think of it like any mode of transport. Imagine if aircraft were not reusable. You flew somewhere, you throw the plane out. That's how conventional rockets work. It would be like if you had an airplane and instead of landing at your destination, you parachute out and the plane crashes somewhere. That'd be a very expensive trip.
J
Joe Rogan24:13
[laughter]
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Elon Musk24:14
And you'd need another plane to get back. Um but that's how the other rockets in the world work. Um now, the SpaceX Falcon rocket is the only one that is at least mostly reusable. You've seen the Falcon rocket land. It has now done over five hundred landings of the Falcon 9 rocket. Um and this year we'll deliver probably somewhere between 2200 and 2500 tons to orbit with the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy rockets, not counting anything from Starship. Um
J
Joe Rogan24:52
And this is mostly Starlink?
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Elon Musk24:54
Yes. Mostly Starlink, but we launched many other we even launched our competitors on Falcon 9. We charge the same price, pretty fair. Um Uh but SpaceX this year will deliver roughly 90% of all Earth mass to orbit.
J
Joe Rogan25:09
Wow.
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Elon Musk25:10
Um and then of the remaining 10%, most of that is done by China and then the remaining I don't know roughly 4% is everyone else in the world including our domestic competitors.
J
Joe Rogan25:22
You know, it's kind of incredible how many things are in space. Like how many things are floating above us now?
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Elon Musk25:29
lot of things.
J
Joe Rogan25:30
Yeah. There is a saturation point though. Right. But is there a saturation point where we're going to have problems with all these different satellites that are
E
Elon Musk25:38
Um I think as long as the satellites are maintained, it'll be fine. Space is very roomy. Um It's like you can think of space as being concentric shells of the surface of the Earth. So it's the surface of the Earth but a series of
J
Joe Rogan25:59
larger.
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Elon Musk25:59
Yeah, it's like a series of concentric shells. Um
J
Joe Rogan26:01
And think of an Airstream trailer flying around up there. There's a lot of room for Airstreams.
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Elon Musk26:06
Yeah. I mean imagine if there were just a few thousand Airstreams on Earth.
J
Joe Rogan26:10
Yeah.
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Elon Musk26:11
What are the odds that they'd hit each other, you know?
J
Joe Rogan26:12
They wouldn't be very crowded.
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Elon Musk26:13
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan26:13
And then you got to go bigger because you're dealing with far above Earth. Hundreds of miles above Earth.
E
Elon Musk26:18
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so the goal of SpaceX is to get rocket technology to the point where we can extend life beyond Earth and establish a self-sustaining city on Mars, a permanent base on the moon. That would be very cool. Imagine if we had a moon base Alpha where there's a permanent science base on the moon.
J
Joe Rogan26:37
That'd be pretty dope or at least a tourist trap.
E
Elon Musk26:40
I mean
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Joe Rogan26:42
A lot of people be willing to go to the moon for just for a tour.
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Elon Musk26:45
That's for sure.
J
Joe Rogan26:45
To be just a tourist
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Elon Musk26:46
pay for our space program with that, you know.
J
Joe Rogan26:47
Probably. Yeah, well
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Elon Musk26:48
Cuz it's like if you could go to the moon safely, I think we'd get a lot of people would pay for that.
J
Joe Rogan26:58
Oh, 100% after the first year after nobody died for like a year.
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Elon Musk27:01
just make sure. Exactly. Are you going to come back? You know.
J
Joe Rogan27:03
Because like that submarine, they had a bunch of successful launches in that private submarine before it exploded and killed everybody.
E
Elon Musk27:11
That was not a good design, obviously.
J
Joe Rogan27:12
It was a very bad design. And the engineer said it would not withstand the pressure of those depths. Like there was a lot of whistleblowers in that company, too.
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Elon Musk27:19
Yeah. Um but they made that out of carbon fiber, which doesn't make any sense because you actually need to be dense to go down. In any case, you just make it out of steel. If you make it out of a big steel casting, you'll be safe.
J
Joe Rogan27:36
Why would they make it out of carbon fiber then? Is it cheaper?
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Elon Musk27:38
Um I think they think carbon fiber sounds cool or something, but
J
Joe Rogan27:41
It does sound cool.
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Elon Musk27:42
It sounds cool, but because it's such low density, you actually have to add extra mass to go down. But if you just have a giant hollow ball bearing, you're going to be fine.
J
Joe Rogan27:54
Speaking of carbon fiber, did you check out my unplugged Tesla out there?
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Elon Musk27:57
Yeah, it's cool.
J
Joe Rogan27:57
Pretty sick, right? Yeah. Have you guys ever thought about doing something like that? Like having an AMG division of Tesla where you do like custom stuff?
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Elon Musk28:05
Um I think it's best to leave that to the custom shops. You know, Tesla's focus is autonomous cars, building kind of futuristic autonomous cars. Um So, we want the future to look like the future. Did you see our designs for the robotic bus? It looks pretty cool.
J
Joe Rogan28:34
The robotic bus? Is it supposed to be totally autonomous?
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Elon Musk28:36
to actually figure out a good name for it. I think we'll call it the robo bus or I don't know. There's no good name. But it looks cool. It's very art deco. It's futuristic art deco. Um and we want to change the aesthetic over time. You don't want the aesthetic to be constant. You want to evolve the aesthetic. Um You know, like I was saying, he's even more artistic than me. And he has these great observations.
J
Joe Rogan29:09
Who is this?
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Elon Musk29:10
Saxon. He has these great observations in the world because he just views the world through a different lens than most people. Um and he is like, 'Dad, why does the world look like it's 2015?'
J
Joe Rogan29:21
[laughter]
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Elon Musk29:24
And I'm like, 'Damn, the world does look like it's 2015.' Like the aesthetic has not evolved since 2015.
J
Joe Rogan29:28
Woah, that's what it looks like? Oh, wow. It's pretty cool. Oh, yeah. That's like
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Elon Musk29:33
Like you'd want to see that going down the road, you know?
J
Joe Rogan29:34
Yeah.
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Elon Musk29:35
You'd be like, 'Okay, this is We're in the future, you know?' It doesn't look like 2015.
J
Joe Rogan29:38
What is that ancient science fiction movie, like one of the first science fiction movies ever? Was it Metropolis? Is that what it is?
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Elon Musk29:43
Yeah, yeah.
J
Joe Rogan29:44
Yeah. That looks like it belongs in Metropolis.
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Elon Musk29:46
Yeah, yeah. It's a futuristic art deco.
J
Joe Rogan29:48
Oh. All right. Yeah, well, that's cool that you're concentrating on the aesthetic. I mean, that's kind of the whole deal with Cybertruck, right? Like it didn't have to look like that.
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Elon Musk29:56
No. It just wanted to have something that looked really different.
J
Joe Rogan29:59
Is it a pain in the ass for people to get it insured because it's all solid steel and
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Elon Musk30:03
Um I hope it's not too much. You know, Tesla does offer insurance, so people can always get it insured at Tesla. Um Well, but like it is the form does follow function in the case of Cybertruck because as you demonstrated with your armor-piercing arrow, because if you shot that arrow at a regular truck, I mean
J
Joe Rogan30:20
It would have gone right through it.
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Elon Musk30:21
Exactly. You would have found your arrow in the wall.
J
Joe Rogan30:23
Yeah.
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Elon Musk30:23
Um you know, it would have gone through
J
Joe Rogan30:25
least it would have buried into one of the seats.
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Elon Musk30:26
Yeah, yeah. It's But like you could definitely get enough of a bow velocity and the right arrow would go through both doors of a regular truck and land on the wall, you know?
J
Joe Rogan30:37
If there was a clear shot between both doors, it probably would have passed right through.
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Elon Musk30:40
Exactly. Um but it shattered on the Cybertruck because it's ultra hard stainless. Mhm. Um, so and I thought it would be cool to have a truck that is bulletproof to a subsonic projectile. Um, so you know, especially in this day and age, if the apocalypse happens, you're going to want to have a bulletproof truck, you know. Um So then because it's made of ultra hard stainless, you can't just stamp the panels. They can't put it in a stamping press because it breaks the press. So it has to be planar because it's so difficult to bend. It breaks the machine that bends it. Um, that's why it's so planar. And it's not uh you know, it's because it's bulletproof steel.
J
Joe Rogan31:31
Right. So it is like boxy as opposed to like curved and
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Elon Musk31:34
Yeah, you just In order to make the curved shapes, you take mild thin annealed steel, put it in a stamping press and it just smooshes it into whatever shape you want. But the Cybertruck is made of ultra hard stainless and you can't stamp it because it would break the stamping press. So even bending it is hard. To even bend it to its current position, we have to way over bend it. Um and so it springs back into the right position. Um, so it's a unique aesthetic. Um, and you say, 'What's cool about a truck? Trucks should be manly, macho, you know?' And bulletproof is maximum macho. Get us more macho.
J
Joe Rogan32:33
Are you married to that shape now? Like can you do anything to change it? Like as you get further, I know you guys updated the three and the Y? Did you update the Y as well?
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Elon Musk32:42
Yes. The three and the Y are updated. You know there's a screen in the back for the kids to watch in the new three and Y. Um So in the Y, there are hundreds of improvements. We keep improving the car. Um and even the Cybertruck we keep improving it. Um But I wanted to do something that looked unique. And the Cybertruck looks unique and has unique functionality. There were three things I was aiming for: let's make it bulletproof, let's make it faster than a Porsche 911, and we actually cleared the quarter mile. The Cybertruck can clear a quarter mile while towing a Porsche 911 faster than a Porsche 911. Um it can out tow an F350 diesel.
J
Joe Rogan33:41
Really?
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Elon Musk33:41
Yes.
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Joe Rogan33:42
What is the tow limitations?
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Elon Musk33:44
I mean we could tow a 747 with a Cybertruck. The Cybertruck is alien technology. Okay. Um Because it shouldn't be possible to be that big and that fast. It's like an elephant that runs like a cheetah.
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Joe Rogan34:03
Yeah because it's 0 to 60 in less than 3 seconds, right?
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Elon Musk34:05
Yes.
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Joe Rogan34:06
Yeah. And it's enormous. What does it weigh? Like 7,000 lb?
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Elon Musk34:09
Uh yeah. There's different configurations but it's about that. Uh it's a beast.
J
Joe Rogan34:14
Yeah.
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Elon Musk34:15
Um So it's got four-wheel steering. So the rear wheels steer too. So it's got a very tight turning radius.
J
Joe Rogan34:24
Yeah we noticed that we drove one to Starbase.
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Elon Musk34:27
Yeah very tight turning radius.
J
Joe Rogan34:28
Yeah. Pretty sick.
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Elon Musk34:28
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan34:29
Are you still doing the Roadster?
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Elon Musk34:32
Yes.
J
Joe Rogan34:33
Eventually?
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Elon Musk34:35
We're getting close to demonstrating the prototype. And I think this will be one thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable. Unforgettable.
J
Joe Rogan34:52
How so?
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Elon Musk34:55
Whether it's good or bad. It will be unforgettable.
J
Joe Rogan34:57
[laughter] [gasps]
E
Elon Musk35:01
Um
J
Joe Rogan35:03
Can you say more? What do you mean?
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Elon Musk35:05
Well, you know, my friend Peter Thiel once reflected that the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars.
J
Joe Rogan35:16
So, you're going to be able to fly?
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Elon Musk35:17
Well, I mean I think if Peter wants a flying car, he should be able to buy one.
J
Joe Rogan35:27
So, are you actively considering making an electric flying car? Is this like a real thing?
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Elon Musk35:32
Well, we have to see in the
J
Joe Rogan35:33
In the demo. So, when you do this, are you going to have a retractable wing? Like what is the idea behind this? Don't be sly. Come on.
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Elon Musk35:43
I can't do the unveil before the unveil. Um but um
J
Joe Rogan35:50
Tell me off air then.
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Elon Musk35:51
I think it has a shot at being the most memorable product unveil ever. It has a shot.
J
Joe Rogan36:04
And when do you plan on doing this? What's the goal?
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Elon Musk36:08
Uh hopefully before the end of the year.
J
Joe Rogan36:11
Really? Before the end of this year? This is I mean, we're almost in October.
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Elon Musk36:15
Hopefully in a couple months. Um You know, we need to make sure that it works. Uh Like this is some crazy technology we've got in this car. Crazy technology. Crazy crazy.
J
Joe Rogan36:31
So, different than what was previously announced and
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Elon Musk36:36
Yes.
J
Joe Rogan36:37
And is that why you haven't released it yet because you keep [ __ ] with it?
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Elon Musk36:41
It has crazy technology.
J
Joe Rogan36:43
Okay. Like is it even a car?
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Elon Musk36:45
I'm not sure it's like It looks like a car. Let's just put it this way. It's crazier than anything James Bond. If you took all the James Bond cars and combined them, it's crazier than that.
J
Joe Rogan37:01
Very exciting.
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Elon Musk37:03
Yeah.
J
Joe Rogan37:03
know what to think about it. I don't know. It's a limited amount of information I'm drawing from here. Jamie's very suspicious over there. Look at him.
J
Jamie37:10
Excited.
J
Joe Rogan37:11
I'm interested. [laughter]
Is it still going to be the same
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Elon Musk37:13
know what? I mean if you want to come a little bit before the unveil, I can show it to you.
J
Joe Rogan37:18
100%? Yeah, let's go. Yeah. Um It's kind of crazy all the different things that you're involved in simultaneously. And you know, we talked about this before, your time management, but I really don't understand it. I don't understand how you can be paying attention to all these different things simultaneously. Starlink, SpaceX, Tesla, Boring Company, X, you tweet or post rather all day long.
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Elon Musk37:45
Well, it's more like I can hop in for like 2 minutes and then hop out, you know.
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Joe Rogan37:49
But I mean just the fact that you can do that
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Elon Musk37:50
whatever, you know.
J
Joe Rogan37:51
I can't do that.
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Elon Musk37:52
Um
J
Joe Rogan37:53
If I hop in, I start scrolling. I start looking around. Next thing you know, I've lost an hour.
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Elon Musk37:56
Yeah. Um So, no it's for me it's a couple minutes at a time usually. Once in a while sometimes I guess it's half an hour, but usually I'm in for a few minutes then out, posting something on X. Uh you know, I do sometimes feel like that meme of the guy who drops the grenade and leaves the room.
J
Joe Rogan38:15
[laughter]
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Elon Musk38:17
That's been me more than once on X.
J
Joe Rogan38:19
Yeah. Oh, yeah. [laughter] Yeah, for sure. Um it's got to be fun, though.