The grand forum of the Economic Meetings of Aix-en-Provence welcomes Benoit Bazin. Hello. Chairman of Saint-Gobain. Saint-Gobain. So you have just taken part in a round table that caused quite a stir. Benoit Bazin. There were some of your fellow CEOs. There was Thomas Buber, the CEO of Axa, there was Patrick Pouyanné, the CEO of Total, and a few others, and you made quite a buzz, you have to admit, on the subject of restoring European competitiveness. Have you realized that this speaking out by business leaders is perhaps a bit new? Are you today choosing to speak out in the face of a political world that is somewhat numbed by this political instability, and that it is up to you, who are confronted with realities, the theme of this year's economic meetings, to take action?
Business leaders by nature are indeed exposed to international competition. They see major blocs like the United States and China moving at full speed. They look at what the Draghi report wrote, which also caused a shock about the need for a European competitiveness surge. So they are directly involved in energy policy, in the speed of decision-making and execution of decisions at the European level. They are directly involved with various industrial sectors that are deindustrializing. So yes, leaders must speak out because they must act and make decisions for the sustainability and profitability of their companies.
But this speaking out, for you, has become something a bit, I would say, real, since you wrote a book, or rather a book of interviews with Laurent Berger called 'Voies de Passage'. And in this book, you reveal a lot, you say many things about France, about the country, about the company, and you speak out. So I repeat my question: Is this the moment when business leaders must speak out, must take action? Some even say they should go replace politicians and run for president.
Leaders, once again, they and their companies are directly involved in many issues. So the company is not on another planet; it is involved in education issues. What are we doing for the education of young people, for the education of the engineers who welcome them? There, they are directly involved in energy policy. We clearly see that European energy policy for 20 years has not brought us cheaper and more competitive energy. They are directly involved in geopolitics. So yes, companies are at the heart of conflict. A company produces results, financial results but also concrete results every day.
Isn't it also, I'll finish on this point to try to draw you in, isn't it a contrast with the political world that no longer produces results, that today we have an extremely unpopular government, we have political powerlessness beyond knowing whether it is the right or left in power, we clearly see that for many French people, politics is failing. Isn't it time for business leaders, perhaps, to take power or take responsibility?
No, but running a company is very different from running a country. So we must not confuse things. However, one can serve one's country by being a business leader because in fact the company participates in the evolution of the country. The company is at the crossroads of its economic performance, its societal performance, its environmental performance. These are the 'voies de passage' that I talk about in this book, with social aspects too, with Laurent Berger obviously. That is social dialogue. So the company, contrary to what one might sometimes think, is at the confluence of all that and is constantly finding dialogue, finding the right settings, and in a unity of action and place with financial means and human resources to move forward quickly. So the company moves the lines, moves the lines on economic issues, on environmental issues. It innovates, it is paradoxically in the long term. When we invest in decarbonization at Saint-Gobain, we have reduced CO2 emissions by 34% in 6 years, and we are committed to carbon neutrality in 10 to 20 years. So the company is in a unity of action, it is always revisited by economic performance and it is in the long term. So that is one of the characteristics.
Thomas B, who is Franco-German. So that is a quality in these times when France and Germany are perhaps becoming a motor for Europe again with Merz and Macron. So he said we can help, we businesses can help. Do you, Saint-Gobain, say we can help, we can help decarbonize, we can help transform the French economy?
We can help train people, we already do it a lot. For example, in France we have 2,000 apprentices every year. We had 700 work placements for secondary school students. You see, it's on a small scale but it's a start. So we constantly invest 600 million euros in research and development, 60% of which is in France. So we are heavily involved in innovation and investment. 90 Saint-Gobain plants in France, 2,000 distribution points serving energy renovation. We are very much in touch with housing policy, energy efficiency issues, heatwaves like today or thermal comfort in winter. So the company already advances society with a lot of financial resources, a lot of innovation, a lot of commitment from all these teams. We have 36,000 employees in France who are very committed to their country.
A small issue because there is no money today, we clearly see that, it's one of France's problems. So there, you can help by paying taxes, but you apparently have no intention of paying much more. But on the other hand, that has a consequence. It's these cries, it's this budget crisis, it's apprenticeship for example. You are very, very sensitive to apprenticeship and they have reduced apprenticeship funding. Isn't that completely counterproductive given the situation and the reality of the needs of companies like yours today?
In fact, we've been going around on the pension issue for 5 or 6 years. Personally, on pensions, I hope that each of the two sides will be able to take the last step to really find an agreement because we are not far off. The conclave was a total failure, huh. Yes, but I think there have been advances. The age at 64, the opening to capitalization. There, I think everyone must know how to seize the opportunities offered by the other parties. But we've been talking about pensions for 5 or 6 years. We indexed pensions, as one man, to more than a 5% increase in pensions in 2024. Meanwhile, we take care of, we don't take care of young people, and we cut the apprenticeship tax. So we have a real issue.
Has the cut in the apprenticeship tax had a consequence for you?
No, because we still have 2,000 apprentices, we will continue because we are preparing for the future. But we have a real issue of generational balance, of generational imbalance. We must take into account young people, education, housing for young people to prepare the future of the country. Research and development is preparing the future in 10 or 20 years. So I think we need to move forward but fundamentally concern ourselves with young people.
