The committee proceeded to appoint rapporteurs for several items. Then: 'We have the pleasure this morning to welcome Mr. Benoit Bazin, Chairman and CEO of Saint-Gobain, accompanied by Mr. Dominique Azam. Saint-Gobain was founded in 1665, operates in 80 countries with 161,000 employees, revenue of €46.6 billion in 2024, and an R&D budget of €450 million. The group aims to become the global leader in sustainable construction. I have three preliminary questions: First, why does your group have three-quarters of its employees outside France despite its French origins, and what are your industrial projects for France? Second, how do you assess the situation of European industry, its fragilities, and what does it need to consolidate against global competition? Third, what is your decarbonization strategy in France, especially given that the Pont-à -Mousson plant is a major CO2 emitter? Thank you for being here. You have the floor for about fifteen minutes, then we will hear from group spokespersons.'
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this rich introduction. I will focus on Saint-Gobain's global strategy and what we do in France. The group is celebrating its 360th anniversary; we have constantly reinvented ourselves. We operate in 80 countries with revenues of about €47 billion in 2024 and 161,000 employees. Our raison d'être is 'making the world better home', focusing on sustainable construction. We have committed to carbon neutrality by 2050 and have already reduced direct CO2 emissions by 34% since 2017. Since 2019, we have transformed our organization from global product lines to country-by-country management, which is more adapted to local markets. We have also reshaped our portfolio: about 40% of revenue has been turned over through 126 acquisitions and divestitures, including takeovers in the US, Canada, and Australia. Our geographic exposure has shifted from 70% Western Europe in 2018 to 50% now, with growth in North America, Asia, and emerging markets. France is our largest country by revenue, accounting for about 25%, but it is the most difficult market: construction volumes have fallen 20% since 2019, while the US is up 15% and India up 80%. We have 36,000 employees in France, 89 plants, 2,000 distribution agencies. We invest about €400 million industrially in France each year, plus €300-350 million in leases. R&D spending globally is €600 million, 60% in France. The research tax credit (CIR) is essential for our research location in France. On Pont-à -Mousson: it is not core to our strategy, but we have invested €200 million and are working on electrification. We need visibility on electricity prices, grid connection by RTE, and possibly state support. The project has been under discussion for 1.5-2 years. For European industry, the main issue is energy costs, which are 4-5 times higher than in the US or China. We need a competitive framework, investment in R&D, and a competition policy that fosters European champions. On decarbonization, we are very committed: we were the first to produce low-carbon glass and electrified plasterboard. Our four R&D priorities are decarbonizing processes, circular economy, lightweight construction, and material science for decarbonization. We need stability in regulations like the DPE and the REP. In France, the building sector represents 40% of CO2 emissions, so no country can decarbonize without addressing buildings.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and CEO, for outlining these perspectives. Before we go to group spokespersons, allow me to welcome Mrs. Christelle Minard to our committee. Now I give the floor to the Rassemblement National group for three minutes, to Mr. Frederic Weber.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. CEO, dear colleagues. Since the mirror manufacture of 1665 to your factories today, your group embodies French know-how recognized worldwide. In my department of Meurthe-et-Moselle, I think of the Pont-à -Mousson plant (PAM) and the Foug site where you recently invested €20 million in an electric furnace reducing CO2 by 62%. At the same time, you have invested heavily abroad, like the zero-carbon plasterboard plant in Canada. This choice is likely due to a more supportive environment. Unfortunately, France lacks such a dynamic. A parliamentary inquiry on reindustrialization found that our country is trapped in red tape that discourages productive investment. We proposed concrete measures: abolish the CFE, drastically reduce production taxes, exit absurd EU energy market rules, and remove anti-industry standards like the Loi ZAN that blocks industrial projects. This also requires turning the page on the Macron/Socialist energy policy that has ruined our competitiveness. In November 2024, Le Monde reported a study on 800 jobs at risk in your division in France. So I ask directly: which of your activities or sites in France are most at risk of divestitures? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy. Saint-Gobain is very committed to all its sites in France. I have said since 2017 that Pont-à -Mousson is not at the core of our strategy focused on sustainable construction and building envelopes, not water markets. But that does not mean we are not working on it: we invested €200 million, and continue at Foug, and hope to do the same at Pont-à -Mousson depending on electricity price commitments for decades and RTE grid connection. We are very engaged to keep these sites competitive. However, Pont-à -Mousson has a single blast furnace; Saint-Gobain has 125 plasterboard plants worldwide. When we invest in Australia or Canada, we do so because we know how to improve them. I am not able to bring steelmaking expertise to Pont-à -Mousson. That doesn't mean we won't do our best, and the investments show it. But if a better actor existed, I would be happy to discuss. Meanwhile, we continue to work on Pont-à -Mousson. It is now profitable after being loss-making. We also need Europe and France to enforce reciprocity in public procurement to avoid unfair competition from Turkey, India, China on our public tenders while their markets are closed to us.
I give the floor to the Ensemble pour la RĂ©publique group, to Mr. Jean-Luc Fugi. You have the floor, Mr. Deputy.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. CEO, I wish to address the slowdown in the French construction market. Indicators are worrying: declining building permits, rising financing costs, investor caution. Saint-Gobain, present in over 70 countries, has a comparative view. You have engaged in a major transformation towards chemistry of construction, low-carbon solutions, international diversification. What are the main structural weaknesses of the French construction market compared to other countries, and what levers would you prioritize to sustainably revive activity while supporting decarbonization and energy renovation? Also, as a researcher, I would like details on your R&D strategy: the major axes, financing policies, how you support young researchers and PhDs, and your vision of international research. Thank you.
Thank you. Many important questions. On R&D: we work closely with PhDs and researchers. Four axes: decarbonizing our processes, accelerating circular economy, producing lightweight construction systems, and using material science to decarbonize construction and industrial processes. We spend about €600 million on R&D globally. We have joint labs with CNRS. The situation in France is very worrying. 70% of people in social housing refuse professional mobility because they cannot find housing. This has an impact on demography. We need stability and visibility. On the building sector, we have tools like the DPE and REP that many countries envy. They need optimization, not constant change. For new housing, we need financing issues addressed, decentralization, giving power to local mayors. For energy renovation, I advocate a Marshall Plan focusing on the most modest households (the 'FG' - low-income), who are responsible for 70% of greenhouse gas emissions. If there is one euro of public spending, put it there first.
Thank you, Mr. President. We will come back to these issues later; you can add at the end. Now I give the floor to the La France Insoumise group, to Mr. Maxime Léné.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hello, Mr. CEO. I will give you an opportunity to develop your answers. First, I agree with you on the lack of visibility on electricity prices. Tomorrow I will present a report criticizing the November 2023 agreement between the state and EDF. I could ask why union representatives say we have shifted from an industrial vision promoting social issues to a more financialized vision. I could ask about your objective to pay €8 billion to shareholders in dividends and buybacks by 2030. But I would rather ask about public policies for construction and renovation. On new housing, you already answered. On thermic renovation, we see stop-and-go with MaPrimeRénov, on devices to cope with energy price spikes, on maintaining or not an industrial sector. Don't you think we could do better on all these subjects? And on Monday you presented a plan but also the resignation of Mr. Le Cornu, which made your stock fall 2%. Don't you think, like 70% of French people, that it would be risky to end the President of the Republic's mandate early?
I will answer on the housing subject because it is very important. Let's not underestimate that France has put in place devices that many countries envy. The DPE exists; it needs optimization, not removal. It takes time. The building world has long inertia. The REP is important. We have agreements with the CSTB to use sensors to make the DPE more reliable. We need stability. We are on the 16th modification of the DPE; sometimes they remove wall insulation from the diagnosis. We need common sense and stability. Industrialists need stability on these subjects. On new housing, we have financing issues, decentralization. For energy renovation, I already said we should focus on low-income households first. If there is one euro of public spending, put it there. Then we can go up.
Thank you. I now give the floor to the Groupe la Droite RĂ©publicaine, to Mr. Guillaume Le Perz. You have the floor, Mr. Deputy.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bazin, you lead a jewel of our national industry, a company that spans centuries and innovates constantly. I saw your R&D center in Shanghai in June. The Droite RĂ©publicaine supports reindustrialization through innovative sectors like yours. My questions focus on French competitiveness. What weighs most on our competitiveness: the weight of charges, production taxes, or multiplicity of French norms? What works on the French labor market? Do you suffer from the negative image of industry? Do you find qualified people or do you train internally? What administrative barriers slow down the installation or transformation of industrial sites in France compared to abroad? On R&D, is it still possible to innovate in France? On energy prices, our group has always defended cheap electricity thanks to our historic choices; does the evolution of recent years threaten jobs or industrial sites? Finally, on the trade war with Trump's second term: what are the consequences for Saint-Gobain, and does the EU act forcefully to defend its interests or does it miss opportunities to assert itself like China and the US? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you very much. Microphone, Guillaume.
Thank you. Thank you very much. So, we have no issue with recruitment. Saint-Gobain and the industry have a good image, and in addition we have a purpose: sustainable construction, which is very attractive. So there's no problem there. Again, we hire about 5,000 people per year, accounting for retirements, etc. We have 730,000 hours of training in France. So it's very significant, and the social fabric of Saint-Gobain is moving forward well, in the right direction, with great commitment. Now on taxation. Yes, it's very important. Saint-Gobain is in line with what large French companies have published. Looking at value added in France, I did the numbers: for 520, 40% goes to net salaries, 35% goes to social charges and mandatory levies for the state. 20% for investments and 5% for shareholders. So out of 100% value added, 40% net for salaries. If it could be 45 or 50, purchasing power would improve. 35% for the state. 35% for the state between mandatory levies and employer charges, 5% for shareholders, so that's not the issue, and only 20% for investments. So if we had less taxation and charges, we would have more investment and probably more purchasing power for employees. On obstacles, I will touch on administrative complexity. That is true. But I think we can still move forward in France. I am very confident that we can do R&D in France. We need to revisit education. I made strong comments years ago on the teaching of mathematics in schools and high schools, because otherwise we won't have researchers, so we need to start very early. The cost of energy, yes, is a major issue in Europe, and Europe is not doing enough on energy, and Europe is not doing enough to protect itself without being naive towards the Chinese and Americans. So we must stop being naive. We must be much tougher, as the Draghi report recommended, but nothing has happened in a year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I give the floor to Mr. Benoît Bitau for the Ecologist group. You have the floor, Mr. Deputy.
