Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of Maet. Today we are very honored to have here with us Giovanni Tamburi, the founder of Tamburi Investment Partners and one of the most important figures in the Italian finance landscape. So Giovanni, welcome. Thank you for being here with us. On this podcast we always like to start from the beginnings: what context were you born into, what did your parents do, and what impact did they have on your life and the person you are today?
First of all, I was born into a fairly well-off family. I studied normally, high school and university. I graduated quite well. My mother was essentially a housewife, mother of four, so there was a lot of work. My father was a diplomat at FAO, so things very far from my life. They had little impact on my professional choices and left me very free. Through family friends I came to Milan and started this type of work, so indirectly they were fundamental.
You have always been very passionate about economics and finance, and a thesis you carried from university was to bring together three things: the huge savings of Italians, SMEs, and financial markets. You still pursue this with Tamburi Investment Partners. Where does this foresight come from to put these together 40 or 50 years ago, when it wasn't common practice?
Foresight? Not really, because I haven't succeeded much. Italy is still far behind on these three factors that have always been my passion. I always studied and understood that the important things were to help savings and businesses via markets. I had the luck to work on it. But I realize we are few, we are more preachers than actors. The financial market has been neglected, seen as a world of the rich to fight, not protect. This has resulted in little help for businesses, markets, and savings.
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And on the same wavelength of this passion for bringing together these three themes, the passion for economics and finance. At 18, I heard you say that instead of going on vacation, you went to visit factories. What struck you most in those factories? Was it the product, the way they created it, the people?
I always enjoyed working. During Christmas I worked in a ski shop. In university, I did consulting in advertising, so I was in contact with businesses. After 18, working in that shop, I became curious about where products were made. I took the car and visited factories to understand better, to be able to explain things more substantially. It was the winter sports boom. I learned a lot about the effort behind products. I have always tried to touch companies personally, not to be part of the finance that sits in lounges receiving entrepreneurs.
Did you just show up at factories or call first? How did that work?
It depended. Some factories were snobbish and wouldn't give appointments, so I would knock and use stickers as an excuse to get in, saying I was a curious salesman. Sometimes they let me in, sometimes they were suspicious. But almost always I convinced them to let me in and explain things.
For this interview, we asked listeners to send questions. We chose one from Claudia Lolo Battista: 'Dr. Tamburi, in your career, have you ever perceived an instinct or character trait as a secret weapon that made the difference?'
I don't know. It's hard to think of oneself as unique. I think I have the ability to listen. The world of finance is full of know-it-alls. I always tried to listen to entrepreneurs because they are the ones who create value. It's not a secret weapon, just common sense. I listen to those who hold the keys to Italy's export success.
I take over with my questions. Usually we explore the guest's background, but yours is well known. So we want to talk about Italianness and the Italian economy, which is linked to your book 'Fare sistema in Italia'. You say Italy invests too little. What are the main causes and where is the lack of investment?
Thank you for mentioning the book. I spent 4 years on it, trying to prove every statement with data. Why doesn't Italy invest? Italians are consumers, sometimes superficial. I don't blame only politics, but also associations and entrepreneurs. We all do too little, think short-term. However, Italy has been strong in exports because small companies are dynamic. But we could do much better by linking universities, associations, and businesses. That's 'fare sistema'.
Explain the difference with the Anglo-Saxon world, where they are good at coming together, creating conglomerates. In Italy, we don't know how to do system. Can you define what 'fare sistema' means? What is missing?
Very simple: 'fare sistema' means coming together. Today we are recording this podcast. There are many similar structures; we would all be stronger if we talked more with competitors and suppliers. We are individualistic, convinced we are the best. Entrepreneurs often talk about themselves first. 'Fare sistema' means reasoning how to best come together to do things. For example, digital: every small company builds its own website alone. If 3, 5, 10 companies did it together, it would cost little more but divided, very normal.
And we talked about comparing to the Anglo-Saxon system. I'm in America; my husband works in manufacturing there and sees no strong industrial system. America is behind Italy in manufacturing, but its economy is strong because of everything after industry. In Italy we have strong manufacturing but are weak at commercializing it. What is missing? Always this idea of not coming together enough.
Beautiful question. Every time I visit American factories, I'm appalled: old, inefficient. The Italian product is the best when it leaves the factory gate, then gets lost. Infrastructure is a problem, but also that the US has 350 million people with one language. An Italian company selling in Germany, Austria, Switzerland must change language, currency, mentality. Europe doesn't really exist; 27 states with different languages and cultures play tricks on each other. Even within the EU, bureaucrats often contradict political directions. This is a monstrous obstacle.
Our podcast focuses on startups and innovation. But these topics connect to younger entrepreneurs. Another theme from your book is that many Italian entrepreneurs want to remain majority shareholders, keep the company for themselves and their children. This doesn't work in startups, which require co-founders and external equity. Why this mentality? Do you see it changing? Is it central to change? How can the Italian economy grow?
Ten years ago, after success with medium-large companies, I thought we needed a startup accelerator. I was against funds because they want quick exits. I invested in Digital Magics and asked them to go public. They did. Then we merged with EL Venture to form Zest, listed on the main market. Today it has 150 startups, but its value is ridiculous compared to the US. Italian investors lack patience. Meanwhile, each region started small incubators; they should all converge to make system. With a larger structure, you can afford failures. But it's hard to convince people to invest and not sell. Even young people are lazy about making system.
Yes, we anticipated talking about STP, about making system in the startup world. It's important because startups are smaller and need more help. They don't have generations of history; they have months. An example of a virtuous case that we managed to participate in is Bending Spoons.
Bending Spoons is a great example. We discovered them almost by chance. They initially snubbed us, but later called us back when they needed help. Today we are among the largest shareholders, along with management and Americans. Their journey of expanding capital and making system should be a model. There are other unicorns in Italy; we should follow these examples, creating something innovative but open to a broad audience, not restricted.
