There were articles saying you were fleeing the socialists. Is it because of politics that you left?
No, not at all. I never left for politics. I had excellent relations with President Mitterrand. I left because the economy was in trouble. All the economic specialists of the time will confirm that the economy was in a wall. We had taken measures that were in line with the program that allowed the president to be elected, but which led France to devaluation after devaluation because there was no euro. Enormous inflation, difficulties with unions that always wanted more. The climate was not favorable for investment. So I told my father, listen, before investing in new projects, I'm going to see if we can set up something interesting in the United States. That's it. It was for economic reasons. I thought, and I wasn't the only one, that the French economy was going into the wall, and when it improved with the arrival of Laurent Fabius, I returned.
Did you like living in the United States, even if it wasn't very long? It was still...
Well, yes, it's not bad. It's interesting. At work, it's a much more pragmatic approach, with much less criticism of companies that work very well and develop, and a more dynamic market. So yes, it was not unpleasant at all. I clearly prefer living in France, but it was a good experience. An excellent experience.
Were you in Miami? New York?
I lived in New York. Yes, I lived in New York. My office was in the Rockefeller Center.
At that time, you had met Donald Trump. He was a real estate developer, as they say.
Yes, absolutely. I became friends with him. During his first term, I saw him regularly. I also visit him now. I was visiting stores on the West Coast and on the East Coast in Miami with one of my sons, and we were invited to dinner by President Trump not long ago. We were driving and heard on the radio about the first assassination attempt against him. We were going to dinner with him, and I hear on the radio that he was threatened again while playing golf. The Secret Service found people in the bushes with a rifle. I said to Alexandre, it's ruined, the dinner won't happen. But we arrived at his house in Miami, and the dinner was still on. He was warm as usual. We sat with him and said, it's terrible what happened this afternoon. He replied, 'That's how it is.' He survived an assassination attempt that day, and he was still in good humor, totally relaxed. We left around 11 PM.
What is Donald Trump like? Can you discuss with him when there are tariffs? I know...
I discuss. Yes, I don't always get what I ask for, but I discuss. It costs nothing to ask. During his first term, I managed to get an exemption for French wines and spirits. Yes, you can change Donald Trump's mind. But you have to consider that he is the most powerful man in the world and a very intelligent person. When people say the opposite, it doesn't start the discussion well. If he knows that someone says that about him, it's normal not to be friendly. I'm the same. If people say unpleasant things about me, I don't want to be nice to them. It's that simple. After that, it's not up to me to judge what the US president does.
Have you ever thought you are useful for the country? You have 200,000 employees. Have you ever thought about going into politics? Is managing a company the same as managing a state? What is your opinion?
I think they are two different things. I would not have the necessary qualities to do it because it requires a lot of selflessness and a vocation that I do not have. Politicians don't usually stay in office very long. I remember President Giscard d'Estaing, who was exceptional, only stayed seven years. Mitterrand succeeded him and spent the rest of his life trying to come back. I wouldn't have the qualities, the patience. Even if I have ideas about the economy, I don't wish to get involved officially. I prefer what I do, which is very enjoyable. I have fun every day when I arrive at the office. I don't think I would have the same pleasure in politics today. When I see the political situation, with compromises everywhere, it's very difficult. I don't see myself in that.
Sometimes when people say something bad, you don't want to be friends with them. Do you look at what is said about you in the media? Or do you not care? What is your opinion? Because people often talk about you.
It leaves me completely cold. In most cases, I don't even look. People say, 'Did you see that article?' No, I didn't see it. I don't read it, I don't care. That's the attitude to have. In France, when you succeed a little, you are immediately criticized by people who often don't understand what you do or who criticize for their own reasons. What's the point? It's not worth polluting your mind with that. But there can be something human that hurts you. There are many false things that have been said. From A to Z. I'll give you an example. You might ask me about the Princess building we built in the US with Michael Burke. I never understood why people say it was a flop. We never did a real estate operation as successful and profitable. It surprises me because when I researched, I find it interesting to know failures. But it's probably the most beautiful real estate operation I ever did. Ask Michael Burke, he'll explain. We never did anything as profitable.
And why did they turn that into a failure?
I don't know. I can't tell you. I don't know at all.
Bernard Arnault has a private jet, for example. That was much criticized.
Yes, yes, that's for other reasons. They even wanted to track my movements. Now I solved the problem a few years ago. I sold it. I no longer have a private jet. I was forced to have one because I travel around the world, go to three or four cities in China, then Macao, then Seoul, then another city in Korea, then Japan, cities in Japan, then Los Angeles, all in one week. Impossible with commercial flights. So now I sold it, and they can't track me anymore. When I need to do that, I rent a plane. There are many jet companies. No one can locate me. It's interesting because otherwise knowing where I am is not good. Do you sometimes take the train? Of course. I inaugurated the high-speed train at the time. The TGV for Lille. Someone told me they saw you. Yes, for Brussels, exactly. In second class. Because there were no more seats. That doesn't bother me. I was with one of my sons, I don't remember which. We were going to a friend's funeral in Brussels. Someone said, 'Did you see in the train, there is the director of Mediapart?' He said, 'I'm going to tell him that you are in the train because he never stops writing terrible articles about you for taking the jet from Paris to Brussels.' But there was no article.
There is a gap between what is seen in the media and your life. Do you sometimes say, 'I don't understand why?'
Once again, I am not interested in the media that talk about me. That really doesn't interest me because in most cases it's so false that it's funny.
But there are errors. Other things like that. You might also talk to me about Boussac.
Ah yes, I was going to come to that.
The takeover of the Boussac group. That was in 1984, right? December 1984, you were 35 at the time. You return to France after the US. You buy the Boussac group, which was bankrupt. It had several brands: Dior, a jewel, Le Bon Marché, Conforama, etc. In the end, you only kept Dior and Le Bon Marché. How did you buy Boussac? There have been many articles about it.
I'll explain because there are many misconceptions. What is generally written is that Mr. Arnault started with the help of the state, public money. Let me give you some figures. When I took over this company, it had been bankrupt since 1981 when Mitterrand came to power. The government had put people in charge who knew nothing about business. They were losing a fortune every month, about 100 million francs. Then they decided to sell. There was a tender offer. We were one of three bidders. We proposed to put in 400 million francs of our own money. I didn't have that, so I put in 50 million from the family group and got investors for the rest. We asked the state for a loan of 400 million francs (about 70 million euros). The other competitors asked for the same. It was a loan with variable interest depending on the return to profitability. We turned the company around, and we repaid more than the loan. And now people say, 'What a scandal, Mr. Arnault, the state made your fortune.' Let me give a figure: we received a loan of 70 million. Since then, the group I built from that has paid the state, in taxes and social charges, 40 billion euros. So we can congratulate Prime Minister Fabius for the best investment ever made by the French state. 70 million loaned and repaid, and we get 40 billion. So when I hear these criticisms, it's frankly insane. I don't care at all.
There is also the story of the number of employees you had to keep at the time. I think there was an agreement.
Yes, that's true. We had 12,000 people. We committed to keep 10,000, but we didn't keep that commitment because what we found in the factories was worse. Chinese competition was very strong, and we were forced to reduce more. At the time, about 12,000 people. The group we built from that today has 220,000 people directly worldwide. In France, direct and indirect employees: 40,000 direct, 160,000 indirect at suppliers, 200,000 people. So we didn't keep our commitment of 2,000 people, but now we have 200,000 people in France. Maybe we can stop talking about something that happened 50 years ago.
It's like when you make donations. You have made donations several times.
There are two I remember. One for Notre Dame de Paris when it burned. We gave 200 million euros. I think we are at the top of the list of donors. There is a plaque. I am at the 10th rank. I don't need to be at the front. I prefer to stay discreet. And we gave to Restos du Cœur, which was almost bankrupt. We gave 100 million, I think. It helped them avoid bankruptcy. But immediately, there were criticisms: 'Why only 100 million? It's stingy, terrible. He shouldn't have done that.' That was from Mélenchon's party. Then he stopped because his voters protested, saying, 'You're crazy, he gave 100 million for Restos du Cœur and you criticize him?' For Notre Dame, the criticisms were that the state should have done it, not a private individual. You can't believe it. So you give money and it comes back with bad buzz. But I don't respond. There is also François Ruffin, who uses me as a marketing tool. He made a film called 'Merci Patron'. I watched it. It was full of errors but quite funny. I think it brought him a lot of money, good for him.
Then there was the acquisition of LVMH. Another important step in your career. June 3, 1987, Alain Chevalier from Moët Hennessy and Henry Racamier from Louis Vuitton merge their groups to form LVMH. They later clashed. Racamier brought in an outside investor, that was you. You bought shares and took control two years later. Is that roughly correct? When you arrived at LVMH as a small shareholder, did you know you wanted to take control, or did it happen naturally through opportunities?
In this story, when I entered, everyone said it was an extraordinary marriage of egos, a business that was running very well with calm management. But I had bought shares before the 1987 crash. I was interested in how it evolved. They owned the perfumes of Dior, and I had the couture, so I was interested in a possible merger because for a couture house, it's fundamental to manage its perfumes. When I arrived, I realized that a year after the merger, the two leaders were fighting and completely antagonistic. The business would have big problems if left like that. One of them, Racamier, wanted to cancel the merger and sell the wine and spirits part to our English distribution partners. That was impossible, so I opposed it and that started the dispute. Eventually I took control. The shareholders of the Vuitton family left, but they would have done well to stay. Some members of the Vuitton family remained.
You have a passion: piano and music. You are a great piano enthusiast. How did you get into it? It seems important to you.
It's family. My mother played a little piano, my father played a lot of violin. I remember hearing my father on Sunday mornings practicing the Sibelius concerto, and that gave me the desire to play the piano. I played piano. I even won a competition when I was 13 or 14, before the baccalaureate. It has always fascinated me. Now I listen to concerts. I have also performed concerts, but not as a soloist. I did three-piano concerts with my son and my wife. We did one in Moscow before the problems with Russia, conducted by Vladimir Spivakov, playing Mozart. I have an anecdote. We have a beautiful concert hall in the Louis Vuitton Foundation. One day, Maurizio Pollini was there to see the hall. He didn't want to play. So I said to my wife, 'I'll play something.' But I couldn't play in front of Pollini. I asked my son to play. Then Pollini said, 'You play a little piano, go ahead.' So I was on stage playing the Chopin Sonata No. 2 in front of Maurizio Pollini. It was stressful, but I played only the first movement, which is easier.
And I saw that you bought Radio Classique as a classical music enthusiast. It's not at all the same as your other companies. Did you buy it for pleasure? Why did you buy Radio Classique?
I bought it because it was offered to me. Pierre Fort of Sagem owned it and wanted to sell it. He had heard that I was a musician, that I was interested, that I listened to Radio Classique. So it happened that way.
You talk about the Louis Vuitton Foundation. It opened in 2014. It is a contemporary art museum in the Bois de Boulogne near Paris. It has welcomed over 10 million visitors by 2025. It has become the fourth most visited museum in Paris, behind the Louvre, Orsay, and Pompidou. Why did you create this foundation? Where did the idea come from? Was it your idea?
I had this idea for a long time, since the early 1990s. I thought with a collaborator, Jean-Paul Claverie, who still directs the foundation very well, that the group owes its success to creators who are not really artists, but rather fashion creation. It would be good to give back to the world of creation. We had considered creating a foundation in the Bois de Boulogne in 1992 or 1993, but the mayor at the time, Jacques Chirac, didn't give permission. We looked at many other sites. Finally, we saw that the site was a bowling alley. It was very ugly. So we thought we would propose something.
It was formidable. I told Frank Gehry, the exceptional architect I had seen in Bilbao, about it. He found the place extraordinary—he even cried visiting it. It made him think of his time in Paris. So we decided not to miss the opportunity. I convinced Mayor Delanoë to accept the project. We launched it, but it took a long time because, as always in France, there was a lot of opposition—'How can you have a museum in the Bois de Boulogne?' After about ten years, we finally opened the foundation in 2014, next to the Jardin d'Acclimatation. That park was a concession from the Boussac group. When we took over Boussac, which is at the origin of LVMH, we got the Jardin d'Acclimatation. Marcel Boussac had bought it just to get rid of the lions that kept him awake at night. We still manage it well today.
Did you take your children there when they were little?
Of course. We redid the rides, the roller coaster, etc. It's great for families.
Very good. So, I heard you invest in other things. Can you tell us a bit about your personal investments?
I've been investing in technology for a while, starting with the internet in the late '90s. There was a bubble, some companies exploded, others survived. One investment I didn't plan—I was in a US West Coast fund. The manager told me we'd pass on the profits because the fund had likely lost everything. Then one day, we got a message saying they were sending us the shares since they had no cash left. We received a big chunk of Google stock, valued at 2 or 3 euros per share at the time. We didn't know much about Google then. Later, it went up a lot. We sold at some point—I don't know the current price, but we made good profits. There was an element of luck, but we invested with very reputable people. The fund got liquidated, and we got our portion of what remained. It was a good deal we did nothing to deserve.
Yes, yes. So the stock went up? To how much?
I don't remember exactly. We sold in between. I don't know the current price, but we made a good profit. There's also another investment where we were involved from the start. With the same team, we took a stake when Netflix was created—we had almost 20% of it. That was a huge success. Of course, there are things I regret. I sold too early. After we made a great return, it multiplied by ten again. So sometimes you must not sell too early or too late. As someone once said, 'The secret of my fortune is that I always sold too early.'
Let's talk about Steve Jobs if you don't mind. I think you knew him and gave him advice that still inspires the stores today.
