#2 Führen im Wandel: Dirk Hoke über Wachstum, Teamdynamik und die Zukunft der Mobilität

That's exactly the question I got when I moved from Siemens to Airbus, and everyone said, 'Oh, it's totally different.' And then I realized that Airbus had bought the defense division of Siemens, and it actually felt exactly like Siemens when I started there. And when I came here, I thought it would be fundamentally completely different. But you have to say, that was the time after or still in the middle of the COVID tail end, it wasn't normal, how you experience it otherwise. Because we hired a lot of employees during that time who were hired during COVID, who were never on-site, and then they slowly came back to the office. That felt a bit strange. And in the end, it was also because the company had grown quite big by then, that many things were actually not that different, but also very formal, hierarchical, and in my opinion, too slow. We have actually already done a lot to generate topics more agilely, and the team was also different, trimming to fixed goals because the certification was postponed for several years. Okay, then we had the Olympics in mind, the pressure was of course extremely high, and at the same time fundraising and technical goals. So you have to work differently than you normally do in a corporation. Yes, what I always liked at the beginning was the maximum freedom to decide. The decision makes sense. But it's not that simple because we work in an aviation company, and accordingly there are many rules. You have to have a so-called Design Organization Approval to develop aircraft, and you have to have a Production Organization Approval to build them according to the applicable safety regulations of aviation. And that's exactly the difference: prototyping is fun, and exactly as you describe, the moment you go in the direction of certification, you have to work within these very regulated guidelines, and then it's actually exactly like in a corporation, because you can't afford too much creativity.

Yes, well, at the beginning it was relatively hard for both sides because the company had changed very much between the time I looked at it and made the decision to go to the company and the time I actually started. The company was almost twice as big. That was good and bad at the same time because during the post-COVID period and then with the Ukraine crisis, the liquidity in the market suddenly became completely different. Investors suddenly looked very closely, due diligence was reintroduced. Before, we only had to do good storytelling, and raising money during that time was much more difficult. So we had several challenges at the same time. We actually grew too fast. The team was very busy with onboarding. At the same time, the goals had come very close and we couldn't postpone them anymore because the Olympics were fixed. So we had a multi-dimensional challenge, and that was a showdown for the team. It was Paris, so to speak. And it was hard for the team. We actually had a good chance up to a few weeks before that we could fly over the Seine in the city center on the pontoon that was specially built for it. And at the last moment we unfortunately had to send a component back to the manufacturer, and so we couldn't do that flight. We then flew the predecessor model in Sier and over Versailles, which made great footage, but it was of course not what we originally had.

We were in Sier, where we opened the vertiport. The deputy mayor was there. We had many prominent personalities, many speakers, including a doctor from the Paris hospitals. He was just speaking, and three military helicopters flew over us. Everyone thought we had staged it. You can hear the difference in noise when a normal helicopter flies over us, and three flew at once. Everyone thought we had orchestrated it, but we hadn't. It was really a coincidence. Then we flew after, and everyone could talk normally, just like we are now. Okay, as I said, we started and landed a few meters away, and nobody needs a voice. While the military helicopters flew over, even though the microphone was set up with loudspeakers, you couldn't understand him even by shouting because the helicopters were loud. Then the locals came, who thought it was great, and they realized how quiet it really is. They had been afraid of visual pollution, but then they saw how small the vehicle is and that you can't see it at all in a gray-blue sky. After we flew, they did a survey, and over 80% of the population was in favor of using it immediately. Amazing. I didn't hear about that. Of course, it's a sensation. We didn't publish that.

I mean, in this whole process, I followed the press a bit. There were some commitments and then not, yes and no, with cancellations, that there are different opinions about realization and whether one wants to support it or not, that's completely legitimate. My disappointment was actually about the personal way certain people deal with decisions and how they communicate them. Because I say it's perfectly fine if someone has a different opinion, but then you have to stand by it and communicate that decision directly. If you communicate it through third parties, via a video message, that speaks to the political. Or no, that was more political. Then I have to say, it's not part of a politician's job description to be opportunistic and to stretch the truth a bit. No, I have to honestly say, I've had many good experiences. But in that moment, when you see how much work goes into it, how many people get up every day, how many families depend on us doing a good job and that this company survives, and how many people then like to have their picture taken at a hangar opening, and then just a few months later say that there is no national interest in support, that's hard. And now, are there still contacts? Yes, there are always contacts. There are politicians from different parties, or even within parties, you know the range. You're a professional. How do you shake that off? How can you? I mean, do you go home and sleep through it? I always sleep well. You? Sensational. Yes, okay. Never take it personally. As I said, with all respect, I understand that they are not easy decisions, that there are thousands of films coming from all sides wanting something. Nevertheless, you have to consider: when the Chinese decided this year in March to establish this as part of their national strategy, when you see that the Americans are already preparing for Trump and positioning themselves to simplify regulation and certification so that American companies can get to market faster, so if the Chinese are convinced that it's a big market, the Americans are convinced it's a big market, and we in Germany write studies about why no one needs it, then you have to wonder, if everyone is going in the other direction, who is the one who is right? Yes, exactly right.

No, I believe that we have been through hard times, we are still going through hard times, we will somehow manage as always. And next year we will still be the first company worldwide to go into the race with a Western certification. And with that, I believe we are laying the foundation for the spread of this ecosystem. It's a bit like when the first Tesla Roadster was presented and everyone said, 'Looks cool, but without infrastructure, what are you going to do with it?' Or when the first manned flight happened in 1914 with Tony Jannus and the then mayor who had won an auction, everyone said it was nonsense, much too expensive. And then a few years later, it became standard. We have seen that with both cars and planes, it was made accessible to the general population. The balance of scale always works. It can no longer be stopped. The technologies are there. It's now a question of time until we lift the batteries to the next level and make them airworthy. But it's unstoppable. And in the 2030s, we will see it everywhere in Germany. And then people will wish they had been a bit more courageous in these years. Oh, you mean the device won't be forgotten? Then yes, okay. Some will certainly have forgotten. But we are seeing the effects now: we didn't take electric mobility seriously, we see the many strikes, we see the threats of plant closures and layoffs, all announced 10 or 15 years ago. So I also think, like a mildew over Germany. That's what I mean. We can either always complain to each other in a downward spiral, or we roll up our sleeves and say we actually have everything we need to be successful. We are innovative. We have great skilled workers in Germany. We have everything we need. Do we have the right work ethic? I recently read that we are somehow at the bottom or in the middle. I think when it comes down to it, yes, of course. We have a mix. We have people who try to perfect work-life balance, but we also have people who know exactly when it's important, who roll up their sleeves and say, 'Work through it to get it done.' That's part of it. I think especially in critical times, we have to find solutions. And as I said, that's something that is possible in Germany, even with the unions, if you join forces, if you have a vision of where it's all supposed to go. You have brought the company from A to B. Is it really the right time to leave now? When is the right time to leave? I tried to explain to my colleagues that there are always different phases in life, and in those phases you make decisions based on what that phase requires of you. I said it's important for the interaction in stressful situations. If you don't know anything about the person you're working with, and you need input from that person, and they don't deliver, your first reaction is to not perform. They immediately go into a drawer. Do you know if that person just became a father or mother, or if someone in the family is ill? If you don't know that and can't place it, we are very quick to judge. And getting people out of the drawer is very hard. So it's very important to know the context of a person to be able to judge. If the team knows certain situations, they can deal with it. Then we'll help you because you might have a case of illness in the family and can't be on-site as much. And if something doesn't come on time, then we know why. And the next time, you'll know that the team helped you, and you'll usually do the same for your colleagues. And that's what distinguishes successful teams: when the cohesion is so great that you overcome personal feelings and the small factors, and you really ask, 'What do you need?' Empathy, emotional intelligence. How do you develop that? By mastering difficult situations together, but also by creating beautiful moments together. We have so-called sundowners where we stand together in the evening with water or a beer and get to know colleagues outside our own small team. In my opinion, we need to do much more of that. But when finances are tight, you naturally restrict that. But those are the important moments that create empathy and understanding. So you say that corporate and startup actually have no difference? The success pattern you describe: successful teams, empathy, emotional intelligence, clear goals, not putting people in drawers, regardless of where you are. That means if you don't have it, you automatically steer towards failure.

Yes, well, you've read it. I will start on April 1st at the family company in Heidenheim, not far from here, but of course it's a big distance again, a completely different world. Family, you know they play in the top league. So you've taught me that, since I'm not so into football. No, there is a very close connection with the football team, but also with many other social issues that happen there. So far, first impression: great company, great DNA, great people who are very down-to-earth, but at the same time ready for change. Yes, yes. Now a new CEO is coming, and people have fear but also hope. How do you balance that? So the first six months will be... How do you make yourself visible? What do you want to achieve? What do you do in the first few months? Yes, the first months are listening, learning, understanding. I have already read a lot and heard a lot from the people, but I have to feel what the DNA really is, what the culture is. And then of course, the expectation is that in the first months I will develop a strategy with the team: where is the journey going in the next 3 to 5 years, but also in the next 20 to 30 years, because we are striving for a long-term orientation of the company. Cool, when will it start? April 1st. You said April 1st. Okay, wonderful. Yes, super Dirk.

Well, first of all, it's extremely difficult in Germany and Europe. Highlights? Yes, yes, it's coming. Okay, difficult in Germany, and the combination triggers a reflex in me. How do you turn that into a highlight? So it's very difficult because we have to work with parameters that are much more complex than in the USA, for example. That means we are very good on the innovation side, but we have a bit more difficulty with commercialization. But I believe that with Volocopter we can set an important sign that we can still commercialize such technologies here in Germany despite all adversities, and thus ensure that later jobs are created here in Germany in an industry that will become very large and very important in the 2030s. So I think it's important to believe, have courage, and persevere. Then what's great is working with people who come from all over the world with a clear purpose, a clear goal, a vision, and are willing to leave everything behind, everything they grew up with, their families, to help establish something like this. That's great and inspires me again and again. And yes, it's of course extremely hard work to implement that in reality. Certification according to EASA, the European regulations, is no walk in the park. We have to meet the highest safety standards, we have to certify at the same level as Airbus or Boeing. And implementing that, seeing that you bring together this motivation from all over the world, channel it, and implement it, that's great. And you will see, that's what will happen in the next few months. The only thing that really sets the team back from time to time is financing and the fear and worry that the money might not be paid out. Otherwise, we would be much faster. Yes, crazy. Dealing with fear is of course a huge challenge. As an entrepreneur, now going into my 15th year, I always say you have to manage to keep fear from standing in front of you and blocking you, but rather behind you, driving you. Look, the press has said we've been bankrupt four or five times, and you shouldn't read that too much. We've always managed. No, I'm optimistic that Volocopter will exist in the future, and as I said, especially as the very first to achieve an EASA certification. I know you're a big döner fan. When was your last döner? I mean, you're the first who actually managed to eat two in a row. Yes, I was very surprised. Yes, yes, since I usually don't eat breakfast or lunch, I can eat a lot in the evening. But the last döner was a few weeks ago. Okay, we'll correct that soon. Okay, good. It was great that you were here. Let's do it again. I'm curious to see how you're doing at the end of this year or next year, what challenges you'll have, and whether you'll still look as good. See you. Okay, thank you for the invitation. Take care, see you soon.