CEOInterviews.AILessons in Leadership: Rodger DeRose and Rick Thigpen

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Steve Adubato0:03

Welcome to Lessons in Leadership. I'm Steve Adubato with the talented Mary Gamba, my Co-Host and Executive Producer. We're kicking off a brand new initiative today. If you don't see him right now on your screen, I believe Elvin you're going to see him in a second. Do we see Roger? See Roger DeRose, who is the President and CEO of Kessler Foundation. Roger, do you mind if I actually set this up as to what we're doing? Do you mind?

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Roger DeRose0:25

Not at all. Not at all. You want me to start?

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Steve Adubato0:29

No. I got this.

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Roger DeRose0:29

Oh, you got this.

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Steve Adubato0:31

I got this. Roger's a take charge guy, but here's the deal. Together with the Kessler Foundation, who've come on board as sponsors of Lessons in Leadership-- Listen, a lot of people, the logos, the branding, that's all great. But with Kessler Foundation, we're starting off a series of interviews, segments, around research, science, innovation, and of course leadership. Roger's going to describe exactly what the Kessler Foundation is about. We'll be putting up their website so people can find out more so you can contribute to the research they're doing. All about research, science, innovation, and leadership. Mary, before we get into Roger, can we please plug the other great sponsors of Lessons in Leadership?

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Mary Gamba1:10

I would love to. So we have the NJ Sharing Network. If you're not an organ and tissue donor, please go onto their website. It'll be on screen so you can learn more about that. Seton Hall University and the Buccino Leadership Institute. The International Union of Operating Engineers, Local 825. And we also have the sponsors Valley Bank and Prager Metis. So we're in really great company, Roger, with you at Kessler Foundation. We're excited to have you on board. And finally, Delta Dental of New Jersey. And we always smile when we say that for healthy teeth.

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Steve Adubato1:39

Yes. They are our new sponsors as well. And by the way, Delta Dental is sponsoring a series on small business leadership. Roger, put this in context. Why did you, with limited resources as every organization does, why did you say yes, we want to do a series on research, innovation, science, and leadership. And by the way, they almost set up the kinds of people who will be joining us from the Kessler Foundation on the series. Why is that so important as we put up the website for the foundation?

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Roger DeRose2:06

Thanks, Steve, and thank you, Mary. It's great to be with you and your viewers today. And we thank you for the opportunity, Steve and Mary, to be with you and talk about Kessler Foundation and the research that we're doing. I think it's important, Steve, because, you know, we're all about human translation research. And by that, I mean, we're not dealing with animal research. We're dealing with humans and we do everything that we can to move that research into patient care and to create it as the standard of the next generation of care for patients in spinal cord injury and brain injury and stroke, multiple sclerosis and several other neuromuscular type conditions. So I think this is a great opportunity for us to talk to your viewers, hopefully interest some of them into donating to our work and I'll tell you a little bit more about why I think they can leverage their dollars by investing in our work. But this gives us a great opportunity to talk to your viewers, the brain trust of the leadership series of the Steve Adubato program.

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Steve Adubato3:16

Yeah. By the way, plug Michele, who will be joining us, who leads the development effort at the Foundation, she'll be joining us. Tell everyone who Michele is.

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Roger DeRose3:23

Michele Pignatello is our Vice President and Chief Development Officer, and she has joined us, she joined us about seven years ago and she has just been a fire breather, really just a firebrand in terms of creating--

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Steve Adubato3:40

Glad you corrected that, Roger.

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Roger DeRose3:42

Well, in terms of what I mean by that is--

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Steve Adubato3:46

She gets stuff done.

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Roger DeRose3:47

She is a powerhouse. She's all about action, action, action, and getting things done. And this year she's just having a fantastic year of six months into our fiscal year, Steve. So, you know, she's bringing donors in to create a record year for the foundation.

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Steve Adubato4:04

And by the way, when Michele joins us. One of the things we're going to be talking about is not just where those dollars go, but also the connection, and Mary and I talk about this all the time, between fundraising and leadership. You better be a great leader to raise money, to bring it in, to keep funders not only happy, but believing that their investment is going to something important. Those are important communication and leadership skills. Mary, jump in because then I want to talk to Roger about the leadership academy that we actually have going at Kessler Foundation right now with some pretty extraordinary leaders. Go ahead, Mary.

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Mary Gamba4:36

Sure thing. So Roger, you talked about the donation dollars and where they may go. I think everyone as you're driving you'll see Kessler Foundation, and the Kessler, the rehabilitation, you know, there's the types of rehabilitation, but talk about some of the really groundbreaking things with spinal cord injuries, things like that. So where specifically will those dollars go, because we will be profiling many of those people in our future episodes?

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Roger DeRose4:58

Thanks, Mary. I appreciate it. It's a great question. Let me first say Mary that, you know, we're unlike a lot of other nonprofits or public charities in that we're fortunate to have an endowment and because of that, that covers all of our administrative expenses. So when a donor gives us a dollar or $10,000 or a million dollars, every dollar of that, one hundred percent of that dollar, goes directly to the research that they're designating. So let me give you an example. So we had a donor that we have named the Center for Spinal Stimulation after, and he's been a very, very, he and his wife have been very generous donors to the organization.

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Steve Adubato5:42

Name them, Roger.

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Roger DeRose5:43

The name is Tim and Caroline Reynolds.

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Steve Adubato5:46

They're extraordinary people.

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Roger DeRose5:47

So generous. Extraordinary people here from New Jersey. And Tim is very interested in the work that we've been doing and his wife, Caroline, and the work that we've been doing in terms of spinal stimulation, working with patients, spinal cord patients. And the great thing about this technology, this research, the science that we're doing is that we can connect brain intention with the healthy neurons below the level of the spinal cord injury, the healthy neurons that are still living, that are still active in the spinal cord, so that when the brain says, you know, move your foot, move your toe, move your knee, stand. That the body actually responds to the brain command. Now without that stimulation and they're very specific algorithms that take place that we've been working on for years now. Without that stimulation, it doesn't occur. It's just a thought. It doesn't connect to the remainder, the rest of the healthy neurons. But with the stimulation, it's so exciting. It's the next generation, it's the next leap forward in terms of how we're going to be treating spinal cord patients in the future. And it doesn't end there either Steve and Mary, because we'll be able to use this technology and these procedures and treatments and interventions on other individuals that have mobility issues as well.

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Steve Adubato7:19

Let me follow up on this. You know, we happen to also disclose we're in the midst as we speak right now in the summer of 2021, conducting a series of seminars, it's the Kessler Foundation Stand and Deliver Leadership Academy. And there are, I believe 10 or so, Mary? 10 or 11?

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Mary Gamba7:38

Yup.

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Steve Adubato7:39

Incredibly talented researchers, scientists, PhDs that are just really smart. Do you believe Roger, even though they have gone into science and research to make a difference in the lives of others who are dealing with spinal cord injuries and the whole range of areas where Kessler Foundation does research, do you believe at the core they see themselves as quote unquote leaders.

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Roger DeRose8:03

That's a great question, Steve. You know, I would tell you this, that first and foremost, from what I see of, and I know who those leaders are that have been through your program now for the last four years, Steve, on our campus. First of all, I think they're so enthusiastic about the mission. You know, they can see the mission.

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Steve Adubato8:24

Of the Foundation, right?

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Roger DeRose8:25

The Foundation's mission. Right. They can see the north star in terms of the work that we do. And then on top of that, they're great at science, right? So we're hiring some of the world-class scientists that can compete on the NIH stage, on the Department of Defense stage, on all the federal agency stages for grant wins and grant making. So they're great at science. But they're also, you know, from a leadership point of view they have to be great grant writers. They have to be great publishers, because publishing is so important in order to get grants, new grants as the peer review panels review the work that they've done. But they also have to be, as leaders, great at communications. And, you know, this is something that you've been spending so much time with them and we see the results, Steve. You know, in addition to that, they've got to be great at project management. They gotta be great at relationship building with people.

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Steve Adubato9:22

Hold on, Roger. Roger, sorry for interrupting. Great at communication, presenting, executive presence, talking to non-scientific audiences, running meetings. How about developing and coaching other people and mentoring them, which is not in their wheelhouse naturally? Go ahead, Roger, pick it up.

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Roger DeRose9:37

So important, Steve. You know, they have to be mentors to the next generation of scientists and leaders that are coming up in the organization, because when you think about science, you know, you're really building on the shoulders of scientists that have come before you. And so if you're not building those scientists, if you're not mentoring them, you're not creating the future generation of leaders at our Foundation. And we've got such a great, great track record in terms of retention of our leadership employees. And I think that makes all the difference in terms of not having that turnstile on the front door where people are coming and going. The people that you've been training over the last four years--

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Steve Adubato10:22

They stay. They're there.

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Roger DeRose10:23

They're with us. They're with us. They believe in the mission. And, you know, the other thing too, Steve, I would tell you is that they are strong collaborators. They're not siloed in any way. And that's so important, because we work across all of the different centers to leverage the strengths of the organization. And the most important area I would tell you, Steve is having the confidence in their work when they get up and they present to the board, when they present to their peers, when they present to others in the organization, to management, their ideas, that they can sell them. You think about selling as a scientist and it's not high on your list, but it's one of the most important aspects.

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Steve Adubato11:12

It sure is. Mary, last question for Roger on your end?

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Mary Gamba11:15

Yeah. And it's more even of a statement first and foremost, I mean, I'm just in awe of the work that you do and we will be putting up a QR code so if you're watching now and you would like to donate to the Kessler Foundation--

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Steve Adubato11:24

What is it? A what, Mary?

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Mary Gamba11:25

I know it's something new. It's those little barcodes, you know, when you go to a restaurant and they say you scan it with your phone and it takes you right to where it needs to go. You can do that on television as well. So we're going to put that up so people could just scan it. And if you're old school, you can go to the website and just make a donation. And you talked a little bit about culture, Roger. How did it, over the last 18 plus months with the pandemic, how did that work? When you're doing, many of us were able to work from home? How did that work with everyone still having to come in and because you truly are saving and changing lives.

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Roger DeRose11:56

Well, it's a great question as well, Mary. And it was a difficult time, obviously. You know, when we hit that March 2020 critical stage, we did close down for three months in the research center. We closed it down. The hospital stayed open. Kessler Institute stayed open, which is a great partner of ours because we have such a great working relationship with them. And our footprint, our research footprint, is on their campus. But we did close down for three months and it really did have an impact on the organization. But, you know, we came back in the middle of June and in spite of the pandemic we took every precaution that you can imagine, pumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into protective equipment for our employees, for the patients, et cetera. And by bringing them back as critical infrastructure employees it really put them at the front line in terms of being the first to get vaccinated when the vaccinations came out and the vaccinations came right to the campus so we were able to get them vaccinated and give them another bubble of safety in terms of the work that they do. But I would tell you this, Mary, that by opening last June of 2020, I think it positioned us for not only having a great 2020 for the remainder of that very, very challenging and difficult year, but it's set us up for an outstanding 2021. And we're only six months into it, but it's going to be a record year in terms of grants and also in terms of fundraising.

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Steve Adubato13:38

In that spirit, Roger will continue to join us throughout this series on research, science, innovation, and leadership that's made possible through Kessler Foundation. A whole range of leaders who are with the Foundation will be joining us. Roger will be offering analysis, putting things in perspective as well. We'll keep the website up for Kessler Foundation. What is that thing called again, Mary?

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Mary Gamba13:59

Oh, it's a QR code. Yeah. We'll be putting it up so they could just scan it with their phone. It takes them right to where they need to go to make a contribution.

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Steve Adubato14:06

By the way, Roger and I live next door to each other in Montclair. He goes to a restaurant. He does the barcode. I'm like, listen, give me the old school thing. Give me the menu. I'm not looking at that. I'll evolve. Next time you're with us, Roger, I'm going to ask you how you have evolved and grown as a leader 'cause I know when it comes to restaurants and the code, I haven't evolved at all. Roger DeRose, Mary Gamba, Steve Adubato, Lessons and Leadership. Thank you my friend, a great partnership.

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Roger DeRose14:30

Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Mary. Appreciate it. Good to be with you.

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Steve Adubato14:35

We'll be right back right after this. This edition of Lessons in Leadership with me, Steve Adubato and my colleague, Mary Gamba has been brought to you by the Buccino Leadership Institute at Seton Hall University. Prager Metis. Valley Bank. The International Union of Operating Engineers, Local 825. The New Jersey Sharing Network. Delta Dental of New Jersey. Kessler Foundation. And Seton Hall University. Showing the world what great minds can do since 1856.

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Mary Gamba15:07

This is Mary Gamba. If you want more leadership tips and tools, log on to Stand-Deliver.com. That's Stand-Deliver.com

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Steve Adubato15:50

So here we go, folks. Everything you've ever wanted to know about presidential leadership in history. We've got our good friend, Rick Thigpen, Senior Vice President of Corporate Citizenship at PSEG. Now that's his official title, but his unofficial title is, this guy knows history. We actually did a great drumthwacket documentary, right? By the way, check out our other websites, SteveAdubato.org, check out the documentary we did on drumthwacket, which Rick was a star of because he narrated the whole thing first. Hey Rick, before we get into the presidential thing, your fascination with history comes from?

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Richard Thigpen16:25

I'm a history buff by love of history. I find it incredibly relevant to understand the present. And I think I know more about myself, my own culture, and our country by learning about history.

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Steve Adubato16:36

Let's do this. We're going to go through these presidents and Mary, I'm praying that in post-production we can put some pictures in to put it into context. Some of these presidents, I think I know something about. Others, I know nothing about. But it's all about leadership. It's not politics. It's not policy, it's leadership. Can we start with this? Franklin Delano Roosevelt, go ahead. Leader?

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Richard Thigpen16:56

A tremendous American. A four term winner of presidential elections, which has never happened before. It hasn't happened since. A man who is arguably responsible for saving American capitalism by his handling of the Great Depression and a man who obviously led this country through an existential moment called World War II. And he did it at the same time maintaining popularity, maintaining a majority for his own party in both Houses of Congress during his entire tenure. He handled some tremendous crises for America in a fashion where a politician has never been so successful doing it. And to top it off, Steve, he was handicapped.

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Steve Adubato17:36

I was just going to say that. He had polio, no?

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Richard Thigpen17:38

He had polio and he was unable to walk. So he lived in a wheelchair. So his leadership vision arguably helped save our country. His New Deal vision really changed politics in America. I think many of us would argue things like the Social Security Act and the Social Safety Net that was passed during the time of Franklin Delano Roosevelt has changed our country for the better. A man who comes from money and who grew up as a Protestant Reformer in politics and thought that a lot of the little people were perhaps not his concern, but he learned and grew and he became a great American and had a tremendous impact on the fate and the future of our country.

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Steve Adubato18:19

Hey, Mary, check this one out as we look at some pictures of Roosevelt. The other president from New Jersey-- Now he wasn't, he was the President of Princeton but he wasn't quote from New Jersey originally, right? It's Woodrow Wilson, correct?

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Richard Thigpen18:31

Born in Virginia. And the only Governor of New Jersey to be President of the United States.

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Steve Adubato18:37

Okay. What made Wilson a special kind of leader?

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Richard Thigpen18:42

Wilson was a special leader in several regards. He was a Reformer and that's how I made his name as Governor of New Jersey but doing that he alienated the political bosses who felt that they put him in office. He became fairly unpopular in New Jersey. And he ran for President and two presidential elections. He never got 45% of the vote in New Jersey. He was also a dreamer, an idealist, and he had a bright vision of the future. And that is most aptly I think summarized by the Treaty of Versailles, the peace treaty that was signed to end World War I, arguably the most important political document of the 20th century. And his dream of the future, he was not able to achieve politically by having it ratified and that was called the League of Nations. That came about later as the United Nations, but his dream of sort of a multinational cooperative environment. He was anti-colonial, much to his credit in my view. And he was unable to sell it in the world of practical politics. He had a Republican dominated Senate and they refused to ratify his treaty. And his dream however is something worth noting. He made America a leader in the world. He entered the war on behalf of democracy and trying to make the world safe for democracy. He also made America a national, I'm sorry, an international force. He was a man, like all leaders, who had his flaws, but he had a vision that proved to be quite compelling even if it didn't get realized for another generation after he left office.

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Steve Adubato20:12

You know, as we go through this Mary, what's so interesting is, so much of the presidency and how we view our presidents as leaders have been shaped by the people Rick is talking about. Mary, do you ever think about James Polk?

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Mary Gamba20:23

I was just going to say, I had to jump in with that one. We had gotten a list from Rick and I think no one thinks about James Polk. I said, he was our President? When, how, and why is he-- and now I have to, I do have to say I am not a history buff and I'm very not good at this topic. However, I am fascinated--

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Steve Adubato20:42

We want to know about Polk as a leader.

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Mary Gamba20:43

I want to know about Polk as a leader and why he mattered.

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Richard Thigpen20:46

He's the winner of the 1844 Presidential election. And he beat out Henry Clay and his running mate was Senator Theodore Frelinghuysen from New Jersey. So we also got a New Jersey angle. James K. Polk is the President of the United States who presided over the greatest territorial expansion of our country to date. He had a vision called Manifest Destiny. He pursued that vision with great vigor. That vision resulted in things like acquiring the territory of Oregon, the annexation of Texas, and the unfortunate war with Mexico that resulted in acquisition of enormous amounts of territory in the West. But it also set up the contest over whether or not this new territory be slave or non slave states that ultimately led to our Civil War. So he pursued his vision. He expanded our country greatly. He violated the human rights of lots of people. He treated Mexico unfairly. But can you imagine America without California as part of it? And he clearly pursued his vision. But he was also arguably the cause of the United States Civil War. He was a protege of Andrew Jackson. That's how he got to be elected President. He's not well known. He was a man who had a vision. He had the drive to achieve his vision. And like all of us, he had his weaknesses and one of those weaknesses was the impact of this vision on human beings.

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Steve Adubato22:13

Hey, you know, Rick, when I talked to you about this yesterday, I said, you didn't put Abraham Lincoln on the list. And your response is, come on, everybody talks about Lincoln and leadership. Was there anything about Lincoln that you think after the movies and the books and half of my leadership library on the presidents is about Lincoln.

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Richard Thigpen22:29

Yes. An extraordinary man who rose above his times. And I think there's a very simple quote, "with malice towards none, with charity for all." That is not the thing you hear, Steve. You have a little exposure to politicians. You don't hear politicians actually talk and act like that very often. So a man who, after facing four years of existential war for his country, death, and the hatred that came with it, he had the heart to try to bring our country together. He had a vision that did not allow his emotions to take over. And he was a very, very instrumental person in terms of changing the shape of this country. And he's also the first elected Republican President in the history of our country.

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Mary Gamba23:14

Steve, I want to jump in. I have one question, because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who are not history buffs like me. If there's one book that you could recommend, whether it's written about a president, by a president, or about presidents plural, is there one go-to book that you could recommend? Steve and I are very huge into creating book lists.

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Steve Adubato23:30

If Rick doesn't have one, I have one.

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Richard Thigpen23:32

I don't have one off hand. I read a bunch of different books about presidents. I'm not sure I have the signature one. Perhaps Robert Caro on Lyndon Baines Johnson jumps out.

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Mary Gamba23:41

Awesome.

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Steve Adubato23:42

You know what? That's good because that's a setup for LBJ, but the other one is Doris Kearns Goodwin on Presidential Leadership. Doris Kearns Goodwin. Mary, let's put it up on our website. I have it in my library because it's about Lincoln, Washington, and LBJ, and I'm forgetting who else?

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Richard Thigpen24:01

FDR I hope.

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Steve Adubato24:02

Lyndon Johnson, because I've got these Kennedy posters all over, because when I was a little kid, Jack Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, somehow they connected in my world and I thought that's public service. But after John F. Kennedy is assassinated on November 22nd 1963 in Dallas, Texas and Lyndon Johnson, not elected, becomes President, and then wins the presidency in '64 against Barry Goldwater. And then there's the Vietnam War. What else do we need to know about Lyndon Johnson as a leader, Rick Thigpen?

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Richard Thigpen24:32

Well, Lyndon Johnson, there's something special about him and people talk about, you know, power corrupts, but power also reveals. A man who grew up in Texas. A man in the 1950s was no friend of Civil Rights. A man who was able to learn and grow. And by passage of the Civil Rights act of 1964 I believe it was, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, as well as Medicare, Lyndon Johnson transformed this country in some meaningful ways, in ways we are still struggling with today. And he's a man who came from a very small background. A man who came up in a world of segregation. A man who grew up in a world that was not about tolerance. And yet he exercised his leadership position in power to spread tolerance in America. And I think it could be said he overcame his background to make America a greater country and an America that is more prepared for its future than it was prior to his arrival on the scene through the very unfortunate circumstances of President Kennedy, our first Catholic President, an incredibly popular man, being assassinated.

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Steve Adubato25:31

By the way, in my book, Mary, and I'm not about to plug this, but in my book, Lessons in Leadership, big section on John F Kennedy and his leadership during the Cuban Missile Crisis and previous to that, the Bay of Pigs, which did not go well at all. And what he learned as a leader from the debacle of the Bay of Pigs, moving into the Cuban Missile Crisis. Hey Rick, if we can, you did not put him on the list, but, and I know that everyone else is gone but not forgotten. This President, historical for so many reasons, but not so obvious in so many ways. Barack Obama.

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Richard Thigpen26:05

Yes, sir.

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Steve Adubato26:06

Give me a minute. Just give me a minute.

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Richard Thigpen26:08

A profound man. And I will quote my dear departed father, who would have ever thought that the United States would elect Barack Obama as President. I never thought I would see it in my lifetime.

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Steve Adubato26:18

That's what Chairman Thigpen said?

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Richard Thigpen26:20

That's what my father said to me. Yes, sir.

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Steve Adubato26:22

Bill Thigpen.

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Richard Thigpen26:23

And I feel the same way. Who would have ever thought that America could have had this country with its past could make that happen. So a man who demonstrated to the world charm, charisma, intelligence, grace, and respect can come in all different colors and all different types of packages. So as a role model and a symbol for my daughter who grew up with Barack Obama and his two African American children in the White House, the symbol for our county is incredibly powerful. He's also a man who took us one step closer to universal healthcare, a goal that I think while we fight over it I doubt if anybody can really object to everybody in the country being taken care of. But he helped bring us closer to that. You know, so a man who broke barriers, who set an example that will be forever followed by others. And you can never say it can never happen again, nor can you ever say that someone like that can't do it again.

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Steve Adubato27:16

Rick Thigpen, a historian, and also again, Senior Vice President--

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Richard Thigpen27:20

History buff, Steve.

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Steve Adubato27:21

What's that?

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Richard Thigpen27:22

History buff, Steve.

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Steve Adubato27:24

History buff and also a leader at PSEG. Hey, Rick, Rick is going to join us for another segment on non-presidential leaders that include Henry Ford, Harriet Tubman, Tucson Louverture.

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Richard Thigpen27:34

Tucson Louverture.

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Steve Adubato27:35

Louverture. And Frances Perkins. Rick, thank you. Mary, thank you. That's Rick. We're doing more on historical leadership next time on Lessons in Leadership.

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Richard Thigpen27:45

Thanks, Mary. Thanks, Steve.

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Steve Adubato27:47

That is Rick Thigpen. He is a history buff and he knows a lot about presidential history. Mary, I didn't say I was a buff, but I know a lot of this stuff.

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Mary Gamba27:55

And I'm just the opposite. I know nothing about history. So I was sitting there in awe. I can't wait to watch this back because I probably just look like I'm mesmerized by what he's saying, but I am. I was never taught history in a way that was fun, informational, really told a story. And the way Rick told those stories, I'm very interested. That's why I asked about a book. I said, I want to go out and learn more, because unfortunately my teacher--

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Steve Adubato28:18

Sorry, we got a minute left. Who was the president who, when they buried him, they buried him in a bathtub?

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Mary Gamba28:23

Oh, I have no idea.

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Steve Adubato28:25

Yes. I'm not saying anything bad. He was over 300 pounds.

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Mary Gamba28:30

I was going to say, had to be a big guy. I don't know.

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Steve Adubato28:32

Who knows who it is? Someone. Listen, if you know, go on our website, Stand-Deliver.com, but we're going to report it on another-- I think it was Taft. He was a very large person.

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Mary Gamba28:42

I love this show. You never know what you're going to say.

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Steve Adubato28:44

Yeah but, Oh, Elvin said, "say goodbye. I don't know. Nobody cares."

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Mary Gamba28:49

Say goodbye. It's the best show ever.

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Steve Adubato28:50

Steve, Mary, Elvin, Scarlyn, Sylvester, the team. Next time Lessons in Leadership. In a bathtub! This edition of Lessons in Leadership with me, Steve Adubato and my colleague, Mary Gamba has been brought to you by the Buccino Leadership Institute at Seton Hall University. Prager Metis. Valley Bank. The International Union of Operating Engineers, Local 825. The New Jersey Sharing Network. Delta Dental of New Jersey. Kessler Foundation. And Seton Hall University. Showing the world what great minds can do since 1856.

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Mary Gamba29:28

This is Mary Gamba. If you want more leadership tips and tools, log on to Stand-Deliver.com

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Steve Adubato29:35

Promotional support for this edition of Lessons in Leadership with me, Steve Adubato and my colleague, Mary Gamba has been provided by NJ.com. NJBIA. And New Jersey Business Magazine. CIANJ. And Commerce Magazine.