Your guest now in the big live interview on Boursorama, it's Olivier Roussat, the CEO of Bouygues. Hello.
Thank you for being with us on Boursorama. Lots of things to see together, starting with your results. You published your annual results yesterday, results welcomed by a rise in the stock price. When you look, frankly, you dig in, you say that all the engines are running well.
Yes, we are lucky to have... I looked, I looked for the little bug. We have several businesses. We have very different businesses and geographies since we are in 80 countries. Construction, mobile telephony, fixed telephony, TF1, digital services. So, TF1 suffers a bit more from advertising. But in the end, all the engines work and even if you have countries where it's a bit weaker, the global base of 80 countries means that it works well in the end and that everything doesn't stop, there is always a way to continue progressing, so it's rather positive.
What do we remember especially? What do we remember? Revenue almost stable at 57 billion euros, profit up 7.6% to 1.4 billion, profitability improving, free cash flow record.
Absolutely, and we highlighted one of the drivers of this improvement, which is Equans, which we acquired in October 2022, which is going faster than expected in restoring its margins and generating much higher cash than we could imagine, and it's a very powerful engine that we are lighting up and that is really now coming to light in the group's balance.
You were well inspired to buy Equans? You don't regret it? Quite the opposite, listening to you.
Oh no, we are very, very happy. When we bought Equans, we paid 6.1 billion euros and we were told it was way too expensive. Yeah, I remember at the time. And Equans from October 2022 to December 2025 generated 3 billion in cash. So I think we bought it well, and the work done by the teams under the leadership of Jérôme Stubler is truly remarkable, and it delivers and delivers faster than expected. That's rather good news.
And what? It's 32% of your operating income. Besides, now it's more than Bouygues Telecom, if I'm not mistaken.
It has surpassed Bouygues Telecom and is becoming one of the group's important engines. It will be the group's important engine. And when out of the group's 200,000 employees, it's just half the group, 100,000 people, and it will be the most powerful engine that will generate a very... need to explain what Equans does. They generally do businesses around electrification, which is a very strong period with decarbonization. They do things through everything related to cooling, air treatment. And for example, they are extremely important players in the design of data centers because in a data center, you put electricity and you also need to dissipate the heat from the machines.
So Equans benefits from the data center boom?
Equans benefits from the decarbonization boom that we have on a global scale in rich countries that want to reduce their carbon footprint, and it does so by improving first, that gives it a huge market ahead, and moreover it improves its profitability.
Your construction division, grouped with Colas, Bouygues Construction and Bouygues Telecom, operating result could double one day, this division?
Ah, I think it will double indeed. Well, that would amount to giving you fairly precise guidance that we did not give yesterday, but it is very clear that Equans, our desire to go for the profitability of our peers, there is still almost one and a half points to find, and so the day when we clearly do that, Equans will have profitability higher than the construction division in the coming years.
Yeah, yes, it's not something... and when you said it indirectly, Equans is ahead of its strategic plan too. Well, there you go.
One year ahead, since we announced we had to deliver a 5% margin by end of 2027 and we explained that we would have a 5% margin in 2026. It being understood that all the milestones we had set on the dates we gave to the capital market, that we had done in 2023, on all the milestones we were systematically either at the top of the ranges or well above what we could have imagined.
After that, we also need to talk about Bouygues Telecom, which is fully benefiting from the acquisition of La Poste Mobile. 600,000 new customers in 2025. That's good because the market, especially since the market is your market, like in France, it is...
So indeed, La Poste Mobile gives us access to a type of customer that brings in a bit less. So they bring in a bit less but they have a great quality. They are customers who are much more loyal than other customers. To explain it to you more simply, when there is significant commercial agitation because there are aggressive offers from one of the operators, all operators have to move and adjust to be able to keep their customers. It turns out that when you look at the behavior of La Poste Mobile customers, they remain fairly immune to what happens in terms of market agitation. So certainly they are customers who bring in less than the customers we can have on a plan under the Bouygues Telecom brand typically, but on the other hand, they have a profile of stability and loyalty that is much better, and so ultimately having customers who stay is something that is quite interesting. It saves you from spending commercial costs to acquire them.
Bouygues Telecom, which contributed less than last year to the group's profit, right? That's it, with a contribution of 295 million euros, down 81 million. How do you explain that?
We explain it quite simply. We had a peak of investment in the years 2022, 2023, 2024, and so this investment peak produces depreciation, and this depreciation massively lowers the current operating result and thus degrades that part. Nothing dramatic. There is nothing at the level of cash generation. It is really something that is an accounting consequence of what was invested in previous years.
So, I know I won't get a scoop today on this, but to explain to those watching, there is potentially a recomposition underway in the telecom sector with potentially discussions on the purchase of SFR from Altice by the consortium Orange, Bouygues Telecom, and Free. Just, you're not going to tell me there's no scoop, I know, but it might not happen. Ah, I think that... do you want it to happen, but could it not happen?
First, we have two important steps. The first is to first reach an agreement with the seller, that is, the seller and us agree on the price at which we can do the transaction. And then you have a second step that is extremely important: the competition authority, which can tell you 'I think this deal is not good for competition' or on the contrary say 'I agree with the guarantees you propose to maintain significant competition in the market, so I authorize it.' And so the antitrust thing, finally, in a second time, the first time of the valuation.
We are far from that. Are we far from that?
Listen, we had submitted a first offer on October 14, to which we got a response on the 15th explaining that it was rejected because it was not enough, the seller considered that the price we presented was not sufficient. There was a leak organized in January, notably by the seller, to explain that he himself said that we had started due diligence, that is, detailed analysis of the various accounts to know exactly to what extent we could possibly improve our offer compared to what we had done in mid-October.
So you are putting pressure to improve your offer. This work is ongoing and then we'll see what comes out. So there will be an improved offer presumably.
There is a due diligence process that allows us to have the details of what is inside, which is ongoing. That's what was publicly disclosed at the end of January. And so that's what allows you to understand exactly what the different elements are worth and that's what allows you to build a price that you can propose to the seller. Then the seller has to agree.
Is it more likely to happen or not?
I think the consortium is the only entity capable of buying SFR. The seller is really a seller, I believe. The seller is truly a seller. Sometimes you have companies, sellers who say 'I put it up for sale, if it doesn't work, no big deal, I continue.' I think the seller is really a seller. I think the consortium is the only real value creation that allows maximizing for the seller. After that, the three acquirers have the desire to outbid, the three acquirers, after the offer in October, entered into due diligence to see what was possible, and so we'll see what is possible this year. It will be this year.
Oh yes, that on the other hand will be like this year. We started our discussion almost a year ago. Yeah. We started... do you find the time long on this file? Having started discussions in April, we are now almost early March, we can say that overall it's a process that can be described as...
But you are confident,
I repeat, I believe the consortium is the only entity capable of making a reasonable offer. But no, not an entity, for a quite simple reason. If you want to buy an operator, the price you realize, the most interesting for the seller, is when you realize synergies because you give part of the synergies to the seller. So to be able to realize synergies, you have to already be in France. That means the best price can only be made by players who are in France, except a foreigner who could also overpay to get a foothold in the French market.
But who would enter a market with 4 players? Frankly, I don't believe it at all, and I think the seller doesn't believe it either. And so in this case, listen, we'll see. Yeah.
Uh, after that, there will eventually be the competition authority. No, but there are two steps. There is finding a way to agree between the seller and us on what the value of the company is. And then the second thing, that the competition authority tells us yes, it's possible under such and such conditions.
Potentially, what would you get? Besides,
We gave an indication when we made our presentations in mid-October and overall we haven't varied in these things. You know, there is an extremely positive point that ultimately wasn't noted. Imagine, if someone had told me at the beginning of last year that we would have in October an offer with three players including two brothers and a half, namely Iliad. Yes, we wouldn't have signed, huh. Well no. So me neither, by the way, [laughter] but what I mean is that the work that was done, really a work that was... that defied to bring together brothers and enemies? Well, we are simply rational. There is no emotion in what we do. It's rationality in the way we analyze. Each one gets a piece, each tries to do things in the best interest of their company while respecting a process that must guarantee competitiveness in the market. So all that is a lot of complexity to do it well.
Olivier, we need to talk about your real estate development activity with Bouygues Immobilier, which is profitable again in 2025. There have been several very, very complicated years for the entire sector. The worst is over for both...
I think for residential, the worst is over and now the various measures have improved. On the other hand, the office activity is an activity that is still at a standstill, really at a standstill.
How much does it weigh in Bouygues Immobilier? For now it weighs nothing because there is none. There is none. There really is none.
Uh, office development activities are activities whose profitability is a bit better than residential profitability. But it turns out that since Covid and since teleworking, it has completely come to a halt. There are no transactions at all anymore. Well, so I think companies are changing their relationship with teleworking and therefore...
Yeah, there is a small reversal, as we have seen. A reversal that should bring people back to offices, and at that time when it's built, globally...
We kept our principles, we have few people in telework because we have many activities that are extremely field-based, and our rules on telework were a maximum of 2 days, and even then depending on the structures, there are all sorts of mechanics.
No reversal for now, we are not considering it. Good, and so on the new residential real estate, there are small signs of life in reservations.
