Mark White & Stephen Daintith. A conversation around gratitude, movement & mens mental health.

Okay good morning, welcome to an incredible first episode of this move with gratitude podcast with an amazing guest. We're here live, I suppose, at Ocado HQ in Trident House in Hatfield, Hertfordshire. And yeah, it's a great way to start the week. And it's a pleasure of ours to kick this off today with Stephen. Welcome, Stephen. Hello everyone. Stephen, just a short bio to introduce you to those that don't know you yet. I know you're pretty new to the Ocado group, aren't you? In March?

Okay, so just a short bio. Stephen joined the Ocado Group as we just shared as Chief Financial Officer and Executive Director in March 2021. Prior to joining, Stephen was the CFO at Rolls-Royce Holdings. During his career, Stephen has worked across various sectors both in the UK and internationally, including senior roles at Daily Mail, General Trust, Dow Jones, and News International. Stephen has a BA in Economics and Accounting from the University of Leeds and qualified as a Chartered Accountant at PwC. So wow, that's right, quite a CV. So we're not here to talk about some of that stuff today, but that's why you're here, which sounds incredible. We've had a bit of a journey to get here, but we're here today fundamentally to talk about gratitude and movement because that is what One Grateful is ultimately all about. And with the point in time that we are in November, with it being Men's Mental Health Month, we felt it was a nice thing to do to introduce that into our conversation today and just get a general feel of your experiences and opinions on certain things. So first thing on Monday morning, we're going to go deep quite quickly, I suppose, but we'll go wherever we need to go. So just a little bit of context around One Grateful. I know you weren't here for the first challenge that we embarked on with the Ocado Group in January of this year, February of this year, sorry. So we ran a certain amount, a few thousand grateful miles across the world, and the invitation for the Ocado Group employees was that they contributed these miles, whether it would be one, ten, or fifteen, however many it was, every mile counted. And then for them to focus on something or someone they were grateful for before they went out on that walk or that run, and they shared their gratitude with us. Internally, we shared it far and wide, and it was really uplifting and really encouraging for people to engage in that way and get to know others in that way. It worked really, really well. Throughout the month, we've done various workshops attached to gratitude and what it meant to them and how they could tune into it if it wasn't something they were familiar with. Attaching gratitude to movement is what One Grateful is all about. If we're lucky enough to move in that way, we really encourage people to do so. So with that, let's kick the conversation off with running and gratitude and things of that nature. Is it something that you're familiar with? I hear you're a runner.

So your relationship with running, it sounds like it's been consistent, but there were little points in time over injury or university or whatever. But has it always brought value to your life? Has it changed over the years with how you use running? Has it always been about PBs for you at certain stages, and now it's about just getting in the outdoors? Do you like running in the outdoors? Do you run with others? Do you like running on your own? Kind of how do you play around with it?

And talking about work, you've mentioned off-camera that you're a family man and you've got sons or a daughter. I don't know exactly how many kids. How many kids have you got?

Oh well, four boys, yeah, okay there you go. So with that in mind, have you always found that running, we've spoken about the consistency of it, but with the family life and the work life, is it something that you've been really conscious of to kind of look after yourself, that you kind of continue with being active?

Yeah, self-awareness as well. And like I said, you've already brought into the conversation around the external factors that go on, the invitations, and maybe people that whether it be friends or work colleagues or family that are kind of in and around the place, and you try and learn from them and stuff like that as well. How you manage your own day-to-day. Totally. I mean, the work environment these days has got... I started work in 1985. No one had a mobile phone, no one had a laptop. You used to go home from work, file it, faxes, and all that sort of stuff. You'd go home from work on a Friday night and you didn't hear from work until you got back into work on Monday morning. That was it. And also you go on holiday, this is all through the 80s and a lot of the 90s, you'd walk out of the office and you'd go away on holiday and that was it, not care in the world. It's a very different world these days. The digital connection, the always-on, the fact that you'll get emails and WhatsApps over the weekend or whatever, and on holiday often you might join one or two meetings. So I think given that sort of changing work environment, it's more important than ever to make sure you've got a side of you that's thinking, 'Is my health okay? Am I eating properly? Am I exercising properly? Am I not drinking too much?' You've got to get all those things right as well to allow you to do the other stuff.

Yeah, and that's why I run. Very early on, it got sold to me. I can't identify with you in regards to the growing up with it and the school. I played some sport, but running was never a thing for me. When I gave up smoking, a good friend of mine suggested we both went on that journey together and a way of doing that was to be accountable and do the fitness thing and the running thing. But I didn't really tune into it straight away, I wasn't on that frequency. I wasn't a fan straight away. But very quickly, it got positioned to me in such a way that just changed my life forever, really. On reflection, he said, 'One day if you feel like walking, just be consistent, be persistent, and you'll be okay.' As soon as he presented it in that way, I thought that sounds attractive to me, sounds like something worth sticking around for. I had a young family at the time, I've got two daughters. They're now 14 and 16, so this was like 10, 11 years ago. But similar to how you've shared, it just felt I wouldn't be missed. I could pop out for 20 minutes. I had a lot of keen cycling friends, but it just felt like a faff, you need to go quite a long way. From a lifestyle point of view, it just slotted in. You can use it as a win and feel like you could go out in the outdoors. As you mentioned, maybe whatever's going on for you on the daytime. How many times a week do you run?

Yeah, no, we're on the same page there, absolutely. So we'll go out for a 5:30 run one day. So, you've spoken, you brought it up around you've been working for a long time, mid-80s. You've spoken about how your relationship with running. Over that time, mainly within the workplace, what have been the changes that you've seen? You've spoken about the awareness around how we can look after ourselves, but you know, there's been a long time there in the corporate world. Some would say some are still in the dark ages in their perceptions and judgments of certain conversations and certain things, especially when it comes to mental well-being or mental health. These words now are being spoken about. You know, it's been going on for a good period of time, a good few years now, but we're still transitioning into new ways of thinking and dealing with things, and topics of how we can support everybody, knowing that everybody's different and coming from different places. It's a complex one. But in your experience over the years, what are the changes that you've seen and witnessed and been a part of?

Yeah, and that's that gratitude piece as well. It's glass half full, your outlook. We have come a long way for a lot of people from the outside looking in. Because we're so tuned in, this is where we live, this is where our attention is, we don't realize. But from people feeding back, the UK in particular is years ahead in some instances in our points of view and our perceptions and how we handle things. So it's not ever to get caught up, this by no means a justification to stay still, because life is so, the momentum and energy around life means that tomorrow is already here. It's a constant momentum of moving forward. So you've spoken about you're obviously a successful man business-wise, been to a lot of places and done a lot of things. But if you choose to engage in life and get up in the morning at 5:30 or 10:30, whatever, and try to participate and see what you can give, that comes with stress and expectations. Imagine on you and others, it doesn't matter where you are in the pecking order of organizations, there are all levels of stress. So do you feel like your early experience at Ocado Group, that they are forefront leaders? Because that's definitely my understanding of Ocado since working with them for the last three odd years. They've been really proactive in managing this growth because they're unbelievably huge in regards to every day, every month, every year, buildings are being built, it's incredible to half witness. So the question is, what's your early impression of Ocado and their thoughts on well-being and things of that nature?

Well, as you just shared that, I was just thinking about there's so many overlaps or environments with what you just shared. Fundamentally, whether it's from a business point of view or a personal point of view, it's self-awareness. It's identifying things, not always problems, but identifying what needs to be done. That's great, but that's when the action needs to be taken, because you can talk a good game. You've identified certain things that need to happen, and it sounds like there's a real proactiveness. I don't think anyone could say Ocado Group isn't proactive. Some would say it's aggressive with how big you are, but you said you're still relatively young. What's been achieved in a short amount of time is a sign of things to come. It's the right people in the right places directing and guiding this. One of my questions that I wanted to ask you in a roundabout way, you've already kind of answered it about leadership qualities. What do you see as leadership qualities, rather than yourself? You've mentioned about how Ocado is looking to lead.

Yeah, of course. And it's such a, I mean, a lot of conversations, no matter what the topic is, life is complex. Different people, as we just brought up, for anyone to be on the same page at any one time is tough. On a personal level day to day, you might present different challenges depending on circumstance. That push and pull between wanting to push and go out there, but that brings a vulnerable state, a lot of emotion and thoughts and feelings you need to manage. But when that brings to mind for me, that leadership is that vulnerability. You're putting yourself out there to bring ideas to life, technology, whatever that looks like for Ocado Group. And then you're out there to get judged. It takes a great deal of courage to get people behind that vision and say, 'Listen, we're out here, we're not going to be perfect, it's not going to play out great every day, and we've got to please a lot of people, but we're willing.' And I think you've got that willingness, as you've brought up a few times, looking to see where we can improve, knowing that we'll never really reach that final destination.

Yeah, and I think it's just that acceptance now that we do have tensions and stresses, and people react in different ways. We have to help everyone through their own situation. From a work environment point of view, think about what's happened over the years with women becoming more of a voice in the workplace. It's been accelerated dramatically over the last 18 months, but the work-life balance is now a big conversation. Nine till five, we spoke off-camera about the need once upon a time to wear the suit and tie, and you always felt you were a bit risk-taking if you turned up to work one day without a tie. So with that, bringing men's mental health into conversation in particular because of the month we're in, there's a question that I don't often read off paper, but it's a delicate one. I want to articulate it correctly. What is the one piece of advice you have for men out there that are challenged talking about opening up, facing the things that are coming up for them, mainly within the workplace or outside of it? Like you said, times have changed in regards to how it's seen.

Absolutely. And that's the environment One Grateful is about, that relationship between movement and gratitude. Gratitude is wellness for your mind. These tools we can lean into on a moment-to-moment basis, let alone daily or a few times a week. Just moments in time when you can check in and reset. The gratitude piece around the runs and the warmth we invite people to do is very much about that. We've all got something to be grateful for. Some days you might feel like you're scraping the bottom of the barrel because circumstances suggest it's a bit on top, anxiety is really raw. But if we can just lean into something, it could be that spark for a different perspective that gives you encouragement and energy to move forward. You've mentioned it in lots of different ways this morning about the need to move forward, but not just keep moving for the sake of it, but looking after ourselves.

Yeah, that's great. Listen, I'm aware of your time, and everyone's got a beginning of another new working week. But there's a couple of things I'd love to get an answer to, light-hearted, but while you're on your... obviously you're going to be taking part in the next One Grateful challenge in January, which we're about to launch. Before I finish on that, it's something that's on my mind. You mentioned about men's mental health, but you shared a sad story about a friend of yours a few years ago. Also, you've got four sons. With them, how you follow them, I can imagine you've seen it through their eyes, the younger generation, how they're tuned into it.

Yeah, and they teach you so much. The kids, seeing life through their eyes, seeing what they've got to contend with. You've mentioned how the work environment has changed with connectivity, and it's the same with the next generation with how they engage with the world, what they're influenced by, the stresses of how they're judging themselves. It never leaves you alone. Just like before, you mentioned you could clock off work on a Friday and at the weekend. Same with school and universities, now it's there with you all the time. Yes, it's an ever-changing world. How we adapt to this world is the challenge. Having these things and processes in place to help us. And I think there are benefits of COVID in allowing people to reassess and reset the way of working. Now working from home is regarded as okay. We all acknowledge there will be a portion of the old-fashioned working week that will be working from home. Before COVID, that was the exception you negotiated with your manager and you might get a day. So I think that's been one of the benefits. No one likes the commute. But getting the balance right so you have time with colleagues face to face, but also avoiding the commute, working from home gives a nicer balance into the working week. As we at Ocado are going through that right now.

Balance keyword. Okay, I said 10 minutes ago, I'm aware of the time. But very quickly, just a question here I'd love to finish on. You're on your grateful mile in January, knee-deep in getting these miles around the world, and you come across a genie lamp on your run. You're outdoors, it's about 5:30 in the morning, and you find this genie lamp. You've got three wishes. Anything come to mind with what those three wishes would be?

And just to finish on a bit of gratitude, is there someone that comes to mind at Ocado since you've been here, in the onboarding process or family, anyone that you're grateful for that you just want to share a bit of gratitude?

Well, feeling supported and loved will never go out of fashion. Everyone needs somebody. I suppose that's one of the takeaways from this conversation. Wherever we are, wherever we're looking to go, if we've got people by our side to uplift us and encourage us along the way, we need to find them. They are out there. If you feel like you haven't, there are opportunities far and wide to go and identify these people. So thank you so much for your time. I've really enjoyed our chat. Great way to start the week. Look forward to doing a few grateful miles with you.

Definitely. Great. Thank you very much.