Klaveness CEO Lasse Kristoffersen talks digital and life after Covid-19.

Yeah, well, first of all, I'm not sure if we're ahead of the curve or not, but certainly we've been thinking of this and working with this for a while, and so hopefully we're there. But I think a couple of comments to that: one is, when these things happen, we tend to overestimate how fast change has come but underestimate the implications of the change itself. And so also I think for this virus and for the technology and digital around it, I think the long-term effects are very deep, but I don't think we will be working very differently in August or in November, honestly. Hopefully at least though, people are more comfortable with using communication technology, and that you can see meetings and deals done without physical presence. I mean, that's the immediate bond, but still I think human beings, we like to be part of a clan, and we like to see our colleagues, and we'd like to check in. So, you know, eventually we're a social tribe, and I don't think that will go away. When it comes to the digital for us in Wallenius Wilhelmsen, we have been very much focusing in three areas. One is how can we use technology to make the life of our customers easier and more efficient. And in that respect, I'm very happy to see that we built a bit ahead of the curve, and now we have big companies like BHP, Alcoa, I don't know, you name it, using our core value platform, and several of them have said that they don't know how they would have managed this situation without having online information about what was going on in their logistics chain. So in one sense, what we have done in digitalization overall has already proven its value for customers. And the two other things we work on is how can we use data analytics better in decision-making, which becomes even more important when you sit alone in your own house and basically what you have is data. And last but not least, how can we use technology to improve the efficiency and quality of our processes? We talk about robotization and what have you, and I think also there, I believe that this crisis helps people seeing that a lot of the stuff we do could have been done better by machines, but there's a lot of stuff we do between people that cannot be replaced.

In life, I think this will change how we think of pandemics and risks, definitely. So it will change how each one of us approaches our personal health, that's for sure, and that will of course affect our seagoing personnel, and probably we need to rethink some stuff. I mean, in the future, the scenario of our people on board the vessels not being allowed to go ashore, it was on there now we have actually to make sure that how can we ensure a career at sea not to be stuck there, right? Since I think there are issues coming up we have not seen before. When it comes to the business side of things, you're talking to an optimist, let me start there. I don't think the world ever goes in reverse, it just finds different ways of going forward. And globalization is here for a reason, and the reason is that it's better for all, and something that is better for all eventually will thrive. But then you have some, you know, it goes fast for some while less fast for sometimes, but I think globalization in itself is not going to be reversed, but we certainly will see some issues around it. And I think on the physical trades, if you look on the need to move iron ore north to China, or diesel and gasoline across the Atlantic, or container boxes around the world, I don't think that will fundamentally change. It will of course have an impact in terms of demand and people using less, just shutting down society, but all that is shorter. So I think on the other hand, what really will have a long-term effect, which is part of our industry and part not, this is of course the leisure industry where people you don't need to move people, you don't need to put yourself on a cruise vessel, you don't need to take a ferry, and necessarily that I'm sure will have a much longer impact, a much deeper impact, and maybe also a structural impact. I wouldn't be surprised if people now these days rethink, 'What about my personal health if I go on a cruise vessel with 5,000 people?' I mean, I'm not saying they shouldn't, but I'm sure people rethink those kind of issues.

Well, book read: if you struggle finding motivation for taking the measures needed, I recommend Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. I mean, basically that's the true apocalypse, and it's a fantastic book but it's just dark, dark, dark. And so if you're sitting home and thinking, 'Should I really apply to all these measures?' read it and you will. But maybe on a more positive note, I think I've just started now on a book by Hans Rosling called 'Factfulness', which is basically that all our biases about what's going on in the world are wrong. So also I think we covet, we just don't know yet. And he is basically using a whole book telling us that everything we think about poverty, about well, going forward, the world is developing, it's all wrong. We all think it's going slow, it's actually going faster than ever. So 'Factfulness' by Hans Rosling, strongly recommended, fantastic book. When it comes to binging of series, I mean there are a lot of them out there, so I am sure most, but there's one actually: an Israeli-Palestinian show on Netflix called 'Fauda', which is truly showing, I think it's very interesting, well done, well played. But it also shows that in these kind of conflicts, there are only losers, they just lose in different ways. And yes, I just saw the reason why I remember it: I saw yesterday that season 3 is now out. So if you really want to see something where you can learn and be entertained, and have your jaw drop on the floor, pretty good.