Chief Operating Officer, Redcare Pharmacy
BusinessLiga - Spieltag 17: "Online-Apotheke ... ein spannendes Spiel" mit Theresa Holler.
"Aus der Apotheke rauf aufs Spielfeld ... THERESAAAAAA HOLLEEEER!". So oder so ähnlich könnte die Stadionansage sein, wenn Theresa das Spielfeld betreten würde - natürlich in der Startaufstellung. Denn Theresa (LinkedIn-Profil: https://bit.ly/3SQYSRi) ist COO und leitende Apothekerin bei Redcare Pharmacy (https://www.redcare-pharmacy.com/abou..., ehemals Shop Apotheke, und hat allerhand erlebt auf dem Weg von einer normalen Apotheke bis in den M-Dax.
In konkreten Aussagen und immer wieder großartigem Bezug zur Metapher Sport erzählt sie uns einiges über ...
den Umgang mit permanentem Change,...
Transcript (33 segments)
R
Ralf Werner0:20
Welcome to Businessliga, the podcast for digital transformation and change management with Ralf Werner and Volker Rau from the speaker booth in Cologne and Essen. We greet you, dear listener, to matchday 17 with the topic of online pharmacy. We have invited Theresa Holler, CEO of Redcare Pharmacy, formerly Shop Apotheke. Theresa, welcome, it's fantastic that you are here. Please say a few words about yourself, what you do, and what the company does.
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Theresa Holler1:00
Exactly, as I said, my name is Theresa Holler. I've been on the board of Redcare for some time, and I've been in mail order for 23 years, a veteran of the mail order business. I have a high affinity for sports, so I found your invitation very nice and I think the format fits well. For our company, I'd say it fits doubly well because we've been on a sprint for 23 years. That could be called a 100-meter run, 400-meter run, hurdles, or 5000 meters. I think everything would fit. Anyone who knows us and has been in contact with us would confirm that. That's why I think the format you've created fits very well with the story and what we do.
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Volker Rau1:47
Great, dear Theresa, also from me a warm welcome to the Businessliga. Now you just made some analogies to athletics. Listeners know we come more from team sports. And at the beginning, there's always the popular question: Theresa, if you were to play in a team in soccer, hockey, or handball, where would you position yourself in business, but also in private?
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Theresa Holler2:11
In principle, I tend to be a striker, I would say, and I think that as a team, if we take team sports, whichever, then it's very much a team matter. The effort is not like a 100-meter run, but you have that in hockey when you want to make a run, you have that in soccer. So I'd say a fast hockey game, which it often is, fits just as well as the 100-meter run. Therefore, it's all the more necessary. And I believe that team performance, as you know from sports, is one of the relevant topics for us. Because in the last 23 years, the opponents, especially in the healthcare sector, have kept the ball quite well under control. So we have to try to find new ways to the goal. Then you have to harmonize well as a team. And I think if you bring the team into play, it's even more important than if you have an established business model that has existed for 20 years and doesn't have to overcome these hurdles. We had to take hurdles repeatedly in the game over the last few years, and therefore team performance is, I would say, even higher for us than in an established business model.
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Ralf Werner3:53
Great, and tell me, you've probably told this so often, but I find it so impressive, especially the speed at which you grew. Can you briefly tell our listeners in what format and setting you started and how quickly everything took off?
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Theresa Holler4:13
We started with, yes, waiting for the first orders, as everyone does who starts something new. We always had political interest behind us and were always watched, so we had a booster here and there in the business. We always had a certain presence. Today we are close to 2 billion in revenue, have over 10 million customers, and are active in seven countries in Europe. The need to digitize healthcare is enormous from the customer side, and there are many opportunities. Both prescription and over-the-counter products are constantly needed, so it's not subject to trends. You don't have to deal with trend topics that change; you have a continuous business. Many things are given. Moreover, when you look at our customer base, I just said we have over 10 million customers now, it's also important to understand that people are sick and need medication or need nutrition and everything we sell from year 1 to year 99. So if we have a customer, they usually stay. In other business models where you make a one-time purchase or maybe two or three times, but then a trend is over, that's not the case with us. So once with us, they usually stay. That's why we have an easier time. Of course, you have to keep customers, no question, and you shouldn't take it too lightly. But in principle, the need for a pharmacy is given throughout the entire life cycle, and that plays into our hands.
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Volker Rau6:38
Very exciting, Theresa. 10 million customers is a lot. Now I would have thought, as a layperson, you first compete with local pharmacies, but there are certainly other online pharmacies. I'm not so into the topic because I still go to the pharmacy obediently, which is probably wrong. But how does the market look? Who did you have to compete against or did you have to assert yourself against? Or is it that the field is divided somehow? How do you operate?
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Theresa Holler7:09
I think you have to separate it into prescription and OTC (over-the-counter) areas. In the OTC area, there are definitely competitors, several mail-order pharmacies that do it professionally and well. In the prescription area, it's rather low, due to the lack of digital options. So DocMorris and we are the two key players in the prescription area. However, the customer still has to, until today, next year the mandatory introduction of the digital prescription is coming, which we've been waiting for years, but in principle, it's still very inconvenient. You have to put the prescription in an envelope and send it to Redcare or DocMorris. Therefore, the two mail-order pharmacies are the only ones operating at scale; all others are in the OTC area. But that means that when this change comes, it will be a real booster for your business. If we had a digital prescription, the hurdle of the envelope would be gone, and it would be end-to-end online. That's online end-to-end. There are countries where it works that way. In Germany, currently, the digital prescription is stored on the health card, and then a terminal in the pharmacy reads the data from the health card. We are in talks to see how this could work remotely, and we are working on finding a solution so that the customer doesn't have to go to the local pharmacy with the card. I've read about so-called NFC solutions, where the customer holds their card against their phone, which then includes the terminal. That way, you can get your medication without the physical trip to the local pharmacy.
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Ralf Werner9:47
Theresa, I still can't get over this story about your speed of founding. From a small pharmacy in the south of Cologne, if I remember correctly, and a few years later in the MDAX. I myself was at QVC for 7 years, and I was impressed by how they grew from 1 to 3500 employees in 10 years, and they still had that pioneering spirit from the startup scene. They fed off that. And at my time, like every company, they had to adapt and get more structure, become more adult. My question to you: you had a similar experience, how did you handle that? Because you went through the same thing.
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Theresa Holler10:47
Exactly, looking back, I think we have preserved a lot of the startup culture. That's also what new employees reflect in conversations, that it's a very dynamic and visionary environment. But every positive thing also has its strain. In sports, you don't win a game without training. It's the same with us. We call it growing pains. When a company grows over the years, it sounds great on one hand, but on the other hand, it's damn hard in some parts because you constantly reach points where the organizational form and setup that worked perfectly yesterday no longer work today. Then you have to, ideally proactively, think about what the next 5 years will look like, both organizationally and structurally. In the last 2-3 years, we have done this very intensively, thinking about how we can scale in the next 4-5 years and how we need to structure and build the organization. We have a matrix organization to enable this scaling. It's exactly what we call growing pains. It hurts. If you don't have that, it's like a strain. You have to get rid of it. We have done that quite well, I think, proactively. If you warm up, you are much less prone to strain. Sometimes you just have to have the strain. It doesn't always work out. Then you think afterwards, if I had warmed up, it would have been much easier. I believe, especially through the internationalization into seven countries, that adds complexity to the business. We have set up country teams, small units within the large organization that are responsible for a specific market and compete with local competitors. In our view, this makes us relatively fast. We always have to ensure that we maintain speed and don't become slower due to growth. Through this organizational form, we try to preserve that speed in the individual markets to stay competitive.
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Volker Rau13:45
Very exciting, Theresa. We at OGE come from a traditional company and always want to become more agile. We have also found a way similar to what you described with the matrix organization. We looked at the Spotify model and tried to adapt it with product teams, squads, and tribes. Did you also get help from outside or look at role models, or did you define it incrementally through your own scaling?
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Theresa Holler14:24
We did look at other companies, but then we also listened intensively to ourselves and painted our own target picture. My colleague Stefan Weber, with his sales and commercial perspective, really looked at what we actually want for the next 5 years in terms of positioning the organization in the individual markets. That led us to the conclusion that the country teams and matrix organization, which is fully supported, makes the most sense and gives us the most flexibility and speed. Additionally, we introduced leadership principles, specifically servant leadership, so that everyone understands that we support and serve the country teams to the maximum, so they are not hindered by a large corporate unit behind them.
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Ralf Werner15:31
With all these measures, what would you say are your cultural strengths or the strengths of your team, that you have managed to stay in constant change, occasionally having a strain, but also naturally arguing and getting louder as in team sports? What are the strengths that have generated this growth and success over the years?
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Theresa Holler16:09
I believe a major strength is that our employees approach topics with great passion. They are truly intrinsically motivated. That is a core factor. We have a sensational team that drives the topic forward with passion. They really look long-term at how to position this pharmacy. When you have employees who have been there for many years, they see it as their baby, just as we do. Then you get a spirit that is similar to a startup, even when you are no longer a startup. I think passion and intrinsic motivation are two key words for how our team functions and where the triggers come from. In a constantly growing environment, it's always positive. Even if you have growing pains, you are always playing in the top league. You know you have a lot of spectators cheering you on. With intrinsic motivation, it's much easier than if you were playing for relegation. Fairly, if you run into the stadium and everyone cheers and applauds, then that passion and intrinsic motivation are almost given. Nonetheless, the daily grind is hard, but always in a setup that is occupied.
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Volker Rau17:56
So you are, in other words, Borussia Dortmund or Bayern Munich of pharmacies. But maybe you can briefly say something about the structure. Are you more from medical profiles or digital? What makes up your team? Is it a healthy mix?
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Theresa Holler18:23
I think it's really a healthy mix. We have a huge focus on our infrastructure, the technological infrastructure. You mentioned product teams, we have those too, constantly developing the Redcare product. At the same time, we also have a pharmaceutical apparatus that ensures we meet the regulations. That's probably a special feature compared to other business models. We are constantly regulated and subject to permanent controls by authorities, ensuring everything runs according to the requirements in all seven countries, each different. We meet the requirements of each country. For example, we have seven different aspirin packages in our warehouse because of the regulations of the Austrians, Italians, etc. That adds complexity, which is managed by the pharmaceutical unit that works closely with technology and IT to ultimately have a digital, scalable product.
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Ralf Werner20:05
Sorry, a quick follow-up. I was at an event recently about Tesla, and they said they are software-defined cars, a computer on four wheels. If you apply that to your business, are you a software-defined pharmacy? Is the digital platform at the center, or is it still more the pharmacy? How would you assess that?
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Theresa Holler20:39
I would say it's definitely the digital platform, but one that also implements the regulatory requirements. That means we clearly focus on scalability. We have chatbots that already answer certain questions. We have had the electronic prescription in-house for 10 years. Every prescription that still comes in on paper is digitized immediately and becomes a digital data set that we work with. So clearly, we are a digital platform, and the processes are highly digitized and automated. But always in combination with the pharmaceutical aspect and the compliance we have to fulfill.
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Volker Rau21:37
I have to make a non-thematic comment. Theresa, that was even more impressive than your previous statement. I think you are the best guest who draws all the metaphors from sports. That's how you invited me, I'm sitting here in front of a soccer field. But one can do it more, the other less. Absolutely sensational. Now, I want to switch to my field of leadership, change, and cooperation. You mentioned that you introduced leadership principles for a common understanding. Where is it difficult or more challenging? Where were you maybe surprised? I think about leadership and collaboration. You already said it's a high pace, a lot to shape, but also the balancing act of introducing structures because it's no longer a small company. Where do you see challenges in daily leadership or self-leadership? I imagine being in your setting, as a responsible, competent, motivated employee, you have to think about where to go, where to coordinate, where to clarify tasks with your boss or internal customers.
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Theresa Holler22:58
There is a big issue for the entire team: constant change. Even if we have fixed structures and a matrix, the whole business in this growth phase is always subject to change. You have to be flexible. I always say, if people come here and want to have the same cup at the same desk every day, they should go to the tax office, but not to Redcare. You have to bring that flexibility. Because every growth threshold brings a new formation. Even if the high-level structure fits, then new levels are introduced. We had an incredible time during the corona period, and the organization had to cope with home office on a large scale. Those were efforts that were taken on sensationally in retrospect. But it's not easy for the leaders. You have to want it and bring passion to it, otherwise it becomes tight. It is a strain. That's why we take care to involve the leaders, to take them along, not to lose anyone. But these demands are not insignificant.
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Ralf Werner25:07
You have also rebranded from Shop Apotheke to Redcare Pharmacy. Can you say something about what drove that, and what it did to the whole team?
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Theresa Holler25:33
We were Shop Apotheke for a long time. The idea behind the name change was to give the international company a name that is the same in all countries. Today we are still called Shop Apotheke, but in Italy we already switched to Redcare, in France it's different. It was a high complexity level having different communications and names. Even if they were translated, they were still different. So we decided to standardize. We wanted a name that reflects the company's thought and the care aspect for the customer. Red is associated with pharmacy, and care completes it. The patient focus combined with the care aspect was the idea. Additionally, Redcare offers extra services like medication management, a therapy app to manage your medication plan, and many other services from pharmacy that fit into this care concept. We believe it fits us perfectly. We are no longer just a shop. So the trigger was internationalization and moving away from a pure shop to a holistic provider in the pharmaceutical market.
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Volker Rau27:45
Theresa, I have a question about culture. I see analogies in our business. We are also a regulated business at OGE, with a strong focus on digitalization and innovation on one hand, but also regulatory aspects. Those two worlds sometimes clash. You mentioned recruiting and that you strongly emphasize the change aspect. How do you manage that within the teams? I imagine the characters are different.
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Theresa Holler28:35
It starts with recruiting. You need the right people who want to move such a company forward. Within the teams, it's about constantly looking ahead because the task itself is not static; it's inherently exciting and new aspects keep coming up. We launched a marketplace, added the Nau network, internationalized. So we don't stand still. Therefore, it's always interesting for teams to redefine their tasks. If you hire the right characters in the front who are looking for that and say, 'God, I'm so glad there are always new challenges here,' that's the key. You have to have the right people who enjoy that. If you have people who are creatures of habit and want everything as it always was, then Redcare is probably not the place. That doesn't mean we don't have areas that are stable for a certain time, but in principle, it changes constantly. The type of person you do this with is the basis for everything. As our motto says, everything starts with people.
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Ralf Werner30:15
That's not so easy, the topic of recruiting. Getting the right people. Sometimes during the corona period, I thought, 'Damn, why didn't I learn to be a consultant or pedagogue, or become a software developer or craftsman?' I remember you, I think 10 years ago, you said you were looking for software developers and couldn't find any, so you bought a small company in Düsseldorf to get the people. I imagine it's even more difficult now. I hope that with your market presence, you have good visibility. Are you still struggling to find enough software developers?
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Theresa Holler31:10
We bought Xite back then and added to our IT department. At the moment, it's actually a bit easier. The unification and the appearance of Redcare are playing into our hands. The attractiveness of the company helps. There were phases when it was very difficult, which is why we have locations in Berlin and Warsaw. Currently, it's going in a lighter direction, maybe due to Redcare or the general market situation. In the IT sector, it has relaxed a bit. In the pharmaceutical sector, it's still tight, as with doctors. We simply have too few pharmacists and doctors. So we have to ensure we get the specialists.
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Volker Rau32:43
How do you work together? In IT, it's common to have flexibility. Can the people work from anywhere, developers from Mallorca, or do they have to be at the location?
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Theresa Holler32:55
We are relatively flexible. Home office is big. In principle, they can't be everywhere; certain requirements must be met. A European location is a prerequisite. Other than that, we are flexible.
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Ralf Werner33:18
That's attractive then. Absolutely. I think there are always topics where you need to see the colleagues, but in principle, you also need to feel the spirit of the company. But in principle, everything is possible at Redcare. I think the possibility of working from home, which was necessarily initiated by Corona, would not have come so quickly without that pressure. I find it interesting with other clients of mine who hired many software developers with contracts for 100% home office, but now they are trying to pull back and say they need at least one day a week to see each other. I had a client who, after half a year, the team agreed to meet every six months in Cologne. One software developer said that soft factors are overestimated and that meeting twice a year was too much. But still, it's tending towards the need to meet every 14 days to have a bond with the team. Do you have that issue too, that you say maybe it's good to meet in the office at reasonable intervals?
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Theresa Holler35:22
I think my colleague Mark Fischer, who is responsible for that, could say more, but in principle, we do feel that we are bringing people back to the offices because it's important for the company culture. On the other hand, if it's difficult for people to come to the office due to location, because we hired people who can't commute every day, then it's still possible. In the end, the collaboration must work and the outcome must be there. We notice that the teams say it helps when they see each other. That's a trend we clearly see. But if someone can't or doesn't want to go along, that wouldn't be an exclusion criterion.
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Volker Rau36:32
Now a different direction. You said you see yourselves as a digital platform. Looking ahead, digital progress is immense. I assume your platform is in the cloud, with security aspects that are becoming more critical. The basic technological progress is rapid. How do you manage that? Do you buy it, train yourselves, or how do you ensure you always have a modern digital platform?
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Theresa Holler37:13
We have systems we buy and systems we develop completely in-house because we need a high degree of individuality. The IT itself, in terms of spirit and leadership, is such that they constantly challenge themselves and develop further. They have teams that are extremely curious about what's happening. The entire landscape is changing immensely. We have projects, like everyone else, using AI, which brings new challenges. We have a project where we are using the first robots with AI in the warehouse. It's moving forward rapidly, and we can't avoid dealing with these topics. But it's not a big issue. When you have the right people, we have basic rules and security is a topic. IT infrastructure is set up to be secure. On top of that, we handle health data, patient data, which is a completely different league than selling T-shirts. So we have departments that focus solely on that, and they are challenged. They are busy because if that became a problem, we would have a problem we cannot risk. So we are well, very well positioned in security, and that is absolutely intended.
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Ralf Werner39:14
Now I'm going to take the floor. I kept quiet and didn't shoot a follow-up question because otherwise I always get trouble from Ralf for not letting the podcast go on. I waited nicely so that Ralf can start his summary. Absolutely, go ahead. We are at minute 39. Actually, we always go into injury time, like in soccer, lifting up how many minutes remain. But we'll end it here simply. Theresa, I found it very inspiring. What you have created in the last two decades is impressive. Volker already said it, from a pharmacy to an MDAX company, really chapeau. Redcare, permanent change. I have to mention it again: 2 billion euros in revenue, 10 million customers, very impressive with a startup culture but also learning with pains, as I noted. If you had warmed up properly, you wouldn't have gotten the strain. That's part of it, making mistakes and then getting better. This is done in the matrix with clear leadership principles, servant leadership, which I find very important and impressive. The strengths of your team lie in the team, with your core being the digital platform. And definitely, you were more in the digital sector with your questions. For us, it's almost self-evident. I just thought about when you ask how you keep learning, there is no training officer who says IT needs to learn new software applications. It happens automatically because we are always two steps ahead. So sorry if I didn't answer that completely, but the entire thinking here is digital, tech-oriented, that's clear. It's so self-evident to us that we don't think about it in that sense. That's great, and it underscores the intrinsic motivation of your employees, your team, your whole company to always be at the cutting edge. With that, our matchday ends today. Many thanks to you, dear listener, many thanks to you, dear Theresa, for the great insights into Redcare. With that, Volker Rau and Ralf Werner say goodbye from the commentator's booth in Cologne and Essen, and we look forward to the next matchday. Until then, stay healthy, sports greetings, and take care.