Topplederpodcast med Klare Lise Aasen, konsernsjef i SpareBank 1 Østlandet

I think that I do my best and do the best job I can, and hope that someone dares to tell me if I do something stupid. Fortunately, I experience that. If I do something stupid, I try to change my behavior, and you have to have enough self-esteem to dare admit mistakes, which I do. I'm not afraid to say sorry if I've hurt someone. That's important, I think, as a leader, that you are able to see yourself. That's difficult, and also not to create an echo chamber where everyone agrees with you.

Thank you very much, great to be invited.

You know what? This is what I say – I have the dream job. This is an incredibly exciting position to have. I started a little over two months ago. Banking and finance is in constant development, it always has been, and not least in the areas you mention. We see both the opportunity space through development of financial services for our customers, more digital services and international services, because a lot is opening up through new regulations and so on. But also that the customer still has a great need for advice, so that is quite spot on for our business model: we are a local bank that is close and engaged and present in the local community. So both offering excellent digital solutions and also being an advisory bank is super important. And that is a trend I think will continue – the number of inquiries for advice is increasing.

I think that is a great development because it gives us an opportunity to use good tools to help our advisors give even better customer advice. So when someone asks me if we will lose people or lose jobs because of artificial intelligence, I say think of it as a great opportunity to develop the service even better. That is an area I think we will see even more rapid development also at our bank, so it's very exciting.

You know, many people have asked about that. I have to admit that when the first journalist asked me how it felt to be the first woman, I hadn't thought about it at all. Because actually I had the honor of being Group CEO of Bank Norwegian for a period, and that was incredibly exciting. And also, in these jobs in the inland region, people tend to stay in their positions for quite a long time. Richard Heiberg, who had the role, was an excellent person for 14 years, and 14-15 years ago there weren't that many female leaders in banking and finance. But I have to say, something has happened now. We see that two-thirds of the managed capital of financial companies on the stock exchange is led by women, and one in four banks in Norway is actually led by a woman. So it has changed a bit. And the central bank governor is a woman, Ida Wolden Bache, and we also had a very good finance minister earlier who was a woman.

Thank you. I think I have been very lucky. I graduated as a freshly minted auditor in the late 90s and got to start at KPMG. I think that was a great place to start. I recommend everyone to start as a consultant or an auditor because it is a good way to get insight into small and large companies and get to know different types of businesses. So it was a great start. Then I had two small children eventually, and I thought maybe I should have a more normal life. I managed about a year, and then I moved into banking and finance in 2006, when the girls were two and four years old. I started at Nordea, which is the Nordic region's largest financial group with 30,000 employees, an incredibly exciting company. I got to try many things in almost 12 years, a really learning phase. But then the kids started getting quite big, and I felt the time crunch of being on the road a lot, with employees in several countries, for example. There was a lot of travel. So when I got the opportunity to start at DNB, it was a great opportunity to be at headquarters 20 minutes from where I lived. I was there for three years, a very good place to be. DNB is a great company, definitely, and I had great opportunities to influence things. Then when I was in my early 40s, I got the opportunity to try myself as CFO of a listed company. I thought, now I have lived quite risk-free in obscurity. Nobody knows who I am, which I found very comfortable for many years. And then I thought, OK, now I'll take the chance. As soon as you become CFO of a listed company, you have a completely different visibility with the investor market, analysts, maybe a bit in the media. So I thought I had to jump at that chance. After a short time, we became... or what should I say, I was told that I could maybe take the CEO job. I said yes to that and was there for just under two years, which was very educational. When you merge two companies, there is only room for one CEO. So around this time last year, I actually didn't know what to do, because I knew I was leaving my time at Bank Norwegian and had to find something new. There were many exciting opportunities I was talking about, but I thought I had to choose with my heart. Then I came back to DNB for a period in the fall, very grateful for that time. After only a couple of months, which is too short – I'm almost ashamed to be somewhere so briefly – but then this opportunity came up, which I mentioned earlier: the dream job of leading the inland and eastern region's largest savings bank. When you come from Toten, I don't know if my dialect comes through enough, but I have that background. The opportunity to lead a group that is a full-service bank with 1,200 employees, present for customers both business and personal, and organizational employees.

The regulatory burden has only increased, both in number of pages and number of laws. Much of it comes from the crises we have seen, where they want more financial stability. For example, the financial crisis of 2008-2009 was a trigger for a lot. And we see that as we use data more and more, there is a need to think about security, not least because we see an increasing trend of fraud. Economic crime is just increasing; we lose more generally in banking. And I think that Norway has also chosen in many cases to be one of the most EU-adapted countries, so we have often chosen stricter solutions in terms of regulation interpretation and implementation. So I think everyone feels that we are stretched, with rules that just become harder and harder to comply with, and you constantly have to work with processes, your people, training, and system adjustments. That doesn't happen overnight. When you have to change large systems in large banks, it takes quite a long time. So it is a challenging situation.

Yes, the anti-money laundering rules are very extensive. You have everything from, again, economic crime, AML. We have both the first line – those who ensure routines and everything are in line with regulations – and then we have the second line, those who control that we have done what we should. In addition, you have within security, data privacy – extremely many people involved in that. It's almost hard to say who is not involved in some way. And full-time employees, there are very many of them. I don't dare give an exact number because it depends on where we set the boundaries, but it is an increasing trend. When I look at the growth at our bank in recent years in terms of man-years, it is typically within fraud, economic crime, anti-money laundering work, and IT security where we see huge investments in both people and systems.

Yes, actually they do. We have many customers who use that opportunity, and it's not just the older customers aged 80-90 who want a coffee. Many people ask that, but it's also people who are buying their first home, or people who have come into a difficult situation and need advice and want to sit at a table and look at a person, not via Teams or phone.

Yes, I think we will continue to see more mergers of banks. I actually think we will see that. We just got approval from the Competition Authority for the merger with Toten Sparebank, very fun. We can continue according to plan with the merger on November 1st. I think we will see more of that precisely because of the resource needs and system adaptations that can be challenging for small banks, making it wise to merge. Otherwise, I think we will continue to see that customers expect seamless, digital, simple, and fast solutions. We can't get away from that. So I think the banks that will succeed going forward are those that manage to deliver the bank of the future – being a bit ahead of what customers want, having solutions that are a one-stop shop. And we know that customers still want many banks, but I think the banks that will succeed well are those that are able to deliver most services in a simple and easy way, but also customer-adapted. So using data and data insight will become even more important. I know, for example, that if someone calls me during work hours to sell me something, I get a bit annoyed because it doesn't suit me. But if I get an SMS saying I can click on it to book a time myself, I'm quite happy. Other customers experience completely different things. So understanding what the customer wants in contact with their bank is something you can use data and insight to create even more right customer experiences.

It has already come. There are dozens of different types of cryptocurrencies. I think it's quite active. I'm unsure whether it will become common for general use. It's important that people understand what they have actually invested in, and I know many struggle with that. So we need a bit more adult education before it becomes mainstream, I think. But I think it's here to stay. As you say, now it's something people invest in, with the risk that entails. People have talked about the trend or possibility of paper money being replaced by digital currency. I think cash is the most important tool for money laundering, so cash is very unsafe. We have good control routines for that. When it comes to crypto, it's very important that it is regulated in a way that ensures traceability in transactions. I think that could be a valid means of payment. But this is still an area that I think is not fully developed.

I think this is an area that should definitely be looked into more closely. And it's the case that those who are registered crypto exchanges, for example, are registered with the authorities. So it's not that there is no regulation at all, but I think it would be wise to have even more.

We are four large regional savings banks and a number of small savings banks in the alliance that form a grouping that owns a development and ownership group and a product company. We as group CEOs sit on the various boards and have collaboration across through ownership. We have good discussions on the things we think it's wise to develop together. As we talked about earlier with the increased pressure on regulatory and system needs, there are many things we want to develop together to standardize IT, customer, or competitive challenges. But I think being the leader of SpareBank 1 Østlandet has been very important for me to get to know the people in the alliance. You mentioned that because they are important collaboration partners. SpareBank 1 Østlandet is its own large group with real estate brokerage, accounting services, and we serve both small and large customers, private and business. So for me, it has been super important in the first months to get to know people, travel around. I am now on what I call a tour of the offices, a kind of inaugural journey. I was asked before I started if I wanted to bring some people along. I said no, I want to do it alone, or with the bank manager there. It has been great human meetings, meeting those who work out there with the customers, talking to them one-on-one, hearing what they care about. It has been very educational for me because as the top leader, you typically get information channeled through three or four levels, more curated. It's always distilled. So I think here I get the completely unfiltered version.

Ah, what kind of leader am I? Good question. I think I care about some principles that I try to live by, and I don't always succeed. I care about seeing people. I want people around me to feel seen. I want to be a leader who involves and sees people. That's about getting to know them, what motivates and inspires them, and also finding out what triggers them. I believe that if you have people around you who feel they have your trust and that you show trust in them, you get much more out of people. So it's about psychological safety. I care a lot about that. I think the best way to create that is to show that you are a human being yourself, show that I have trust in people. I have been able to do that – I am a bit naive sometimes, maybe have too much trust, but I would rather have trust 9 out of 10 times than be disappointed occasionally. So I really believe in being a present leader and a listening leader. At the same time, I care about being value-based. I think that if you have good people who thrive at work and have a leader they trust, they will actually deliver, and then they deliver to the customers. So I am completely convinced that the most important principle is that a leader should create a safe and good workplace where people are allowed to fail and can feel meaning and mastery. That is the first thing. The second is that I really believe we should have fun at work. Not that we should walk around grinning and joking all the time, but it's about meeting people with a smile, greeting people, asking how they are, caring about your colleagues. That is something I really care about. At the same time, we must run a bank with performance and deliver on goals. So I also care that we set a clear direction, a clear where we are going, and then I want people to help figure out how we reach those goals. So it's setting frames at the top, but letting people be involved and influence how we reach them.

Good question. I actually think that there are some things that need to be in place for you to be a good leader, and you need to understand what you are leading. But that doesn't mean you can't go into a new role and be completely fresh. I've done that before – I went from finance to risk lending. You have to be genuinely curious and spend time understanding what it is you are leading, what the professional competence is. You have to use two ears and one mouth, and learn very fast. Then I think the principles I mentioned earlier – being a leader who sees people, involves, creates psychological calm and safety, has trust, and focuses on performance at the same time – I think that actually applies everywhere. So I think you can lead most things. But it requires a bit longer ramp-up plan. After 18 years, I think I know a bit about banking and finance, so there is no doubt that for me it's easier to start this type of job than being CEO of a retail company, for example.

I can. I have some downsides, I say. I am mostly in a good mood and I care about people having a good time. So of course I can be a bit naive and too nice sometimes. But I can definitely be strict and clear. I mostly believe in being strict and clear – what should I say – putting the chair where the chair should be. I really believe in doing that one-on-one. I'm not a big fan of showing power demonstration in front of a large group. I much prefer to praise in public and correct in private. So I can be strict. And I hear occasionally that I am very clear. I don't like to discuss everything just for the sake of discussion if we have already decided. So yes, I can.

There are some things that are very important to me. One is that people really have a desire to do things together with others, to deliver things together, that they have focus on something more than themselves. Especially when I recruit leaders, I care that they are good at delivering for their own part, but they are leading a team and together with others. So collaboration skills and the ability to focus outside themselves are very important. I also look for people who genuinely burn for their job. One thing I am very aware of is that if you have a job you enjoy and you are passionate about, you do a better job. So I want someone who is passionate about their field. When they talk warmly and enthusiastically about IT or HR or whatever it is, I think this is a person I want to have with me.

Yes, go ahead.

That one is good, and I know from experience that I often become calm when there is a lot going on around me. I can seem a bit happy-go-lucky and talk quite fast, but I know that when there are tough things happening and it's stressful, I often become quite calm.

Yes, I think so. I hear that sometimes I should calm down a bit. But I have high energy; I get energy from working. I don't know if you have used a heart rate watch and seen how your pulse behaves. I often get blue when I'm in rest mode when things are tough, and often orange when it's too quiet. So I think I am triggered a bit by being busy.

Yes, I think so. But I hope I have more good self-insight – knowing how you affect others and how you really are. I think I am aware of my weaknesses. I don't cultivate them; I try to do more of what I am good at. But I think I have good self-confidence. Is it strange to say that? I have to ask.

Yes, I think so. I have experienced that. That's perhaps why I think I have been very lucky with my work history. I have been allowed to influence. I feel that people have listened to me. If not, I have at least tried to come with my arguments. But I am not afraid to back down if I see I am wrong. I have been in roles that have given me the opportunity to have influence and exercise it, so yes.

Yes. I think, as I said, it's the people around us who create results. I am completely sure that it's not through whip and fear. It's about creating good teams that want to do something together, then results come.

I think so. You have to ask others about that, but I think yes.

Yes, I think so. I am at least not inconsiderate. I try to think team before individual. I care about individuals being well, so showing consideration is important. But as I said earlier, I can be too nice sometimes. I have received feedback that I could address poor deliveries more directly. But if someone has a sick mother or child, I think we should show consideration because people are just people.

Yes, definitely. I have learned through the years that I need to spend a bit more time on process because when I have decided, I often decide quite quickly. I have learned to write down those decisions I think I will make, and some things you have to spend some process on. Sometimes I make mistakes, and then you have to dare to change the decision.

Yes, definitely. I am optimistic on behalf of us all. I think we have to be optimistic and make efforts where things are going in the wrong direction. I have faith in people and believe we can achieve if we want to. But we also have to put those who want it into the ability to achieve it, because sometimes will is not enough; they also need ability. So I think we must dare to be optimistic for the future.

Yes, yes, I do sometimes, but fortunately very rarely. And I am quite good at when I feel tired – if I have had a lot, very rare fortunately – when it happens, I take a day off. I tell people around me that I'm quite tired. What do I do when I take a day off? I believe in sleep; sleep is a miracle cure for most things. And I believe in physical activity, simply going for a walk. While walking, I listen to something totally brainless – it could be a podcast, but not this one. I listen to all kinds of things, a humor podcast, music, or just silence. Walks. And I like to be with friends. I had a day recently when I was quite tired, and I considered canceling a friend event, but I thought, no, I have to do it because I know it gives me energy. Being with two or three friends is good for me. So it's important to have balance. I work a lot and get energy from working, I am very grateful for that, but sometimes it becomes too much, and then you have to dare to listen to your body.

Yes, yes, I think so. Many say I can't be a true Toten native because I talk way too fast. I've lived in the Oslo area for almost 30 years now. I'm in my late 40s, a grown woman. But of course, we have some hypotheses about the different types of people raised in different places, and we know they don't always hold. But I think in the inland area, where the bank's headquarters is in Hamar, and we have many other offices, the people are quite solid and proper. I notice they want to do consequence analysis, pros and cons, risk assessments before a decision is made. It should be thoroughly worked through. I think that's an inland culture that has served them well historically. Savings bank institutions and the inland go hand in hand. You earn the money first, then spend, think low risk, and feel like a family among those who work here.

Yes, we should have that. I think we should run a safe bank, a safe and predictable bank that is transparent, and we should be there for our customers. That's very important. That's our DNA. Otherwise, it would just be another bank.

But I don't think there is a contradiction there. I think it's actually a connection. If you want to continue to be a safe, good, and relevant bank, you have to use the tools that exist. AI has come a long way, and there are many opportunities. We have developed a chatbot that is very good, and we are developing it even further to be a digital assistant for our financial advisors. Things like that are very important to be a safe and good local bank – using the means and tools available to give even better customer experiences.

No, I know that's something that just has to continue to be developed. It's being worked on every day, and we have a great team working on it at our bank. It's important because I get incredibly annoyed if I ask questions and never get a proper answer. Then you end up pulling your hair out. So it's very important that you quickly get transferred to a person if you don't get the answers you need.

Thank you very much. It was great to meet you and talk about what I am passionate about – our bank.