The wonder of Wetherspoons | Tim Martin talks to Simon Evans

Hello Simon, very nice to meet you.

I try and get to a dozen pubs a week. 800 pubs is 18 months to get around the country, so I haven't been here too recently.

Well, put on my short skirt and high heels. Hi Ross, how's it going? All right, how's trade been?

I think John Lennon said that life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans, and I was planning to be a lawyer, right, but wasn't very good at it. And someone converted a shop into a very small pub in London, and I started having a pint there, and the guy that ran it didn't like it, and I took over his lease when I finished my legal study.

One in England, I'd say the Victoria Pavilion in Ramsgate, which is right on the beach, vast gorgeous building. And for one in Wales, it would be the Prince of Wales in the center of Cardiff, an old theater on two or three floors, magnificent buildings. And if I was going to go for Scotland, it would be the Cali Picture House on Loan Road in Edinburgh, which is a gorgeous old cinema on several floors, marvelous. And if in Belfast, we've only got one in Belfast now, so it's going to have to be the Bridge House. And one in Dublin, we don't want to leave Dublin out or there will be controversy, so we've got Kenport, the gorgeous building recently opened in Harden Street in Dublin.

We looked for sites 20 years ago in France, Le Havre, Calais, and Dunkirk. I got phoned by a journalist from the Guardian, and he said, 'I can understand Le Havre and Calais, but why Dunkirk?' I said, 'If it all goes wrong, we can f*** off.' And he printed it. Oh, didn't think of that.

Yes, I think maybe that's why people have become more aware recently of preservation of old buildings, that the high street has disappeared to some extent into warehouses, yeah, miles outside town.

A lot of people said that, but it was never put in writing. Yeah, that Wetherspoon bought short-dated beer, because I think it was sort of an identifiable slur really, but it's complete cobblers when you think of it. Our lowest price beer is Ruddles from Greene King, and we take almost all their production of Ruddles, so difficult to hang outside the brewery gate waiting for it to go out of date. I do that outside M&S Food Hall in Paddington sometime, they got wires now, the yellow stickers come out, different. Banned you from the area.

It's a minority really. I think most people, our pubs are the busiest pubs of any pub company, sorry for boasting, and so we do a hell of a trade, and most people like us. Some people don't. And in the UK we've had the divisive issue of Brexit, and I stuck my nose over the parapet. I stayed out of politics before that, certainly stayed out of party politics, and I think that created a bit of hostility in some quarters. But most people, even if they didn't have the same view as me, were pretty decent about it, and said, 'Well, you know, the nation was asked to look at this issue, we all had a view, and fair enough if you'd had one too.'

No, I don't. I do have one belief: that democracy, for all its faults, is essential for the future of the world. But when you're in it, it seems very chaotic, yes, but I think that's a price worth paying.

I think you could wildly overplay anything political when people have had three pints of ale in the evening. But, I mean, coming out, Wetherspoon is a product of a democracy. There is a tradition though. I sometimes get a bit misty-eyed about it. I remember we used to go, me and my mate Ross used to go to a pub called the Rats Castle, which was near our school in St. Oran's, and that's where we first learned to drink, basically 16, 17 years old, you know, always pushing at the edge. You may still find the long arm of the law reaching out to you if you make that admission. Statute of limitations, I believe. I remember very clearly specific individuals that we drank with, who were road sweepers and builders and older men from slightly different social tiers or trades or whatever, that our fathers worked in. I think there is a valuable role to be played by pubs. I think pubs are the great British melting pot. Probably church has played that role to a degree in the background, but no one goes to church anymore.

Maybe. I think there's two different types of pubs in a way. One is the melting pot that appeals to everyone, lots of people you wouldn't normally see in your daily life, and you get a chance to shoot the breeze with them, and that's a very nice thing to happen. There are other people who prefer to meet with other people like me, you know, another whatever little group they're in. Do you mind if I grab a tea while I talk? That's been stewing for a good 10 minutes now. Yeah, I like strong tea. Yeah, so you know, I'm a butch type of guy.

I do a big tour of pubs on one day a week, and the next day so normally. Yeah, in the last pub I'll have a couple of pints, a glass of wine, something to eat. And because I would assume it's a little bit like Downton Abbey, with the butler and the house maid, when you arrive at the pub, do they know you're coming? Do they get everyone spruced up and ready? This is unusual today because you were filming, so people knew in advance, but I never announce going in.

I'm coming up 70, so I'm trying to find a way of preserving it for the future. You start off working for yourself, but we've got 40,000 people who work for us now. It's trying to preserve the ethos which you described, the DNA of the business. Not a tricky thing to do? Yeah, tricky thing to do, but I'm going to try.

I mean they've weathered again some significant storms in recent years. If the country wants pubs to succeed and for it to have a vibrant hospitality sector, they will. Pubs and restaurants will need tax equality with supermarkets. At the moment, without going into the details, pubs are taxed a lot more, keeping the prices relatively high versus supermarkets. I think the sensible thing would be to treat both businesses the same.

I think it's a vital part of social life and a vital part of human contact. It can't all be done online, so yeah, it would be a terribly dull existence if there were no pubs. I remember when I first came to England when I was 18, staying in a town in Berkshire, didn't know anyone, but by going to the pub as an 18-year-old, I met quite a lot of the old reprobates. Yeah, even met a gal or two. So how would that happen if you didn't have a pub?

I'm your man.