CAF President Dr Patrice Motsepe media briefing

And that's why the media is so critically important because whether it's in business or football or even in church or in politics and in the economy, it's important that you ask these questions because we have the duty to answer them as best we can, because we also have the duty to report to the hundreds of millions of football spectators and fans on the continent. I must say I was very emotional when I heard what the Somali referee Omar said to me, and I was also emotionally very much excited because we said to him, 'You are now going to be the referee of the biggest club competition in Europe.' And I really want to thank Sephron and thank UEFA for the discussions and for this opportunity. I'm clear in my mind because the circumstances under which a country either allows somebody to come in or not to come in, we've had lots of those challenges. We had the same challenges in other countries on the continent in football, and it's a sovereign issue. They've got their laws and their requirements. My job and my duties is to make sure that we are there to support the Somali referee Omar, and he's our best. We gave him an award as our best referee on the continent. We are proud of him, and we will keep on supporting him and all the other referees. Talking about Tani, you know what is more important is what we discuss in private, and it's important for me. I always look at the heart of a person. We are all human, we all have weaknesses and frailties, and we all make mistakes. I think I make more mistakes than anybody else, but what I like is the deep love for football, the deep commitment to football in the world by Giani, the support for Africa. And we did that. Some of the issues that we have discussed, including some of the issues that you have raised, and I'm satisfied that he's always shown the deepest commitment. You know, there are rules in FIFA, and we all have to respect those rules. I was laughing when he said that sometimes the FIFA judicial bodies make decisions that he doesn't like. I thought you got that from me, because the CAF judicial bodies sometimes take decisions that I don't like at all. But I've got to keep quiet and support them because their independence is critically important. And they have to know that they must take decisions that have got nothing to do with whether the president of football supports or not. And the people in FIFA who took the decisions you referred to, I've been exposed to, you know, you see some people there with enormous integrity. I think the issue for us now is to make sure that public perception is everything for all of us. You know, I can stand as a president of CAF, I mean, let me give you the FIFA code every four years, but I know that I'm giving them the same AFCON as it is now every two years, identical, but I'm doing something else and giving them something different every four years. But it doesn't matter what I say, and this is the point you make, Mark, very important. It's what ordinary football people and non-football people on the continent, what their perception is of what we do. And it's important that CAF and I know that FIFA as well, we're all committed to make sure that in the minds and in the perspectives of ordinary people in Africa and worldwide, we are seen as an organization that upholds governance and ethics at the highest levels. I'm going to be more pleased because that's a very important question you ask, and I have to try and give as much explanation as possible. So the next questions, the answer is going to be yes, no, yes, no.

Yeah.

Good to see you. Yes. Yes. Yes.

It's a very good question. I think we, if we receive any request, we've got to look at it and discuss within EXCO, and EXCO is the most authoritative, the most senior body in CAF. We have a duty to look at every proposal and take decisions based on what's in the best interest of football. So, I think I've answered you now.

Yeah. I hope you are happy with what I said.

What do you want me to say? Expand. I've expanded as much as I can. Let me be more direct. Decisions of this nature have to be looked at by EXCO and experts to take the decision, and we have a duty to look at every proposal that we receive. So, the secretary general is not here; that proposal will be submitted to experts to look at and to take decisions based on what's in the best interest of football. It's our duty to do that. Thank you very much. Next question.

Good to see you buddies from Super Sport, Canal, slash. Okay. Um.

I like that.

A very good question, Bali. Very good question. We, the process is now before CAS, and whatever decision CAS takes, we will respect and implement. I mean, look at what happened at the World Cup. Decisions that referees take, there's always a contestation. But what we have to do is to learn from what happened, and we have already passed laws to make sure that what happened in Morocco never happens again. And also keep engaging with the referees, match commissioners to make sure that the rules and the laws are very clear. Because at the end of the day, what ordinary football people think on the continent about the results is critically important. The integrity of the decisions that are taken, and there must always be a clear perception that you win because you're the best. You don't win because the referee takes decisions that are questionable. So, I'm very happy. We've had lots of discussions, and I'm told that what I said was... I'm sick and tired of answering the same question. It's not totally correct. What I actually meant was, I think people are sick and tired, and so am I, of giving you the same answer all the time. And the same answer is: you know, I go to the World Cup, people from Senegal say, 'President, please leave the country the trophy where it is.' People from Morocco say, 'President, you know the decision was taken in our favor.' And the point is, I always have to give the same answer, which is I have to wait for the decision of CAS. I can't give you any other decision or any other response. There's nothing I can do legally, ethically. I have to comply with the rules and regulations, the statutes of CAF and FIFA, and those are: I have to wait for the conclusion and then implement it. So I said I'm sick and tired of telling you I have to wait, I have to wait for CAS, I have to wait for CAS, and I thought that you must always also be sick and tired of hearing me saying the same thing to you. But thank you very much, excellent question.

Brilliant question. Brilliant question. I think part of how you do better or how you move in the right direction of success is to recognize weaknesses and things you can deal with differently and better. Let me tell you, we gave the AFCON to Morocco, and when there were matters concerning the hosting of the AFCON, I received many other proposals from other countries who said bring the WFCON to us. And we have to behave in a manner that is ethical, that is principled. It would have been incorrect to take it away from Morocco because when we had opened the bid and said come anybody who wants to host, because I'm clear in my mind I want the competitions, I want every zone and as many countries as possible to host these competitions. So when there were these challenges, we had to engage to make sure that we maintain the ethics, we maintain the respect, the mutual respect, I'll even say the mutual trust. And could we have done better? Absolutely. But we did the right thing by not having it. It was supposed to be in February. Yeah. The same thing, what is your name again? Yanda. Yanda was a guy. Yanda. The same thing with the CHAN in Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda. It was supposed to take place last year, February. They were not ready. I could have taken it away from them, but it would have been the wrong thing to do. And we had to be there to support and work together. They spent so much more money between February and August last year to have this big competition in those three countries, and we've benefited immensely. We've learned as well, but it gave us a prelude to what we should do and the challenges we might be confronted with next year in June and July. So I'm very happy, and we are all in CAF very happy and excited that we've done the right thing. Besides, if we had it in February, we wouldn't have been able to significantly increase the prize money as we have now and get lots of focus. But women's football is crucial, and you know, it should not just be, we shouldn't pay lip service to women's football. We should do more than pay service, and a 900% increase in the money we are allocating to women's football is a substantial expression of confidence and commitment. But thank you for the question. President, if I may go to the WhatsApp question from international journalist. One is from Mauritania, Ahmed Lama from Mauritania. He writes, 'Mr. President, African referees officiated only 11 out of the 104 matches at the World Cup, raising concerns about the treatment of African referees. How do you respond to this and how can we ensure that more African referees are officiating in championships?'

Very good question. Obviously, I want as many African referees as possible to be at the World Cup and to officiate as many matches as possible, and we will continue the discussions and the engagement with FIFA and with Pier Luigi, who I think does very good work and is very committed and passionate. And I've had that question asked and raised by many people, and I can assure you that those matters have been discussed, and I'm confident that there will be significantly more African referees. Part of that is to continue working together between CAF and FIFA to keep training, keep supporting, keep uplifting the standards and qualities of African referees. African referees are as good as the best in the world. My apologies. They are as good as the best in the world, and we've got lots of confidence in them, and they should be there at the highest level in the world. Of course, if an African nation is in the final, we will not have an African referee then. But I want both. Let's have the African referee. We want to see African referees as many of them at the highest level at FIFA competitions. Next.

Just another question from Nigeria from Timothy from Nigeria. He writes, 'Mr. good afternoon, Mr. President. Congratulations. Did the performance of the African nations at the World Cup reinforce your belief that CAF's current club and national team competitions are adequately preparing players for the world's biggest stage?' Absolutely. You see, I have to guard jealously about the quality and the global competitiveness of our club football competitions and our national team competitions. And that's why we've allocated... I mean, you know, when I became president, CAF was in debt to the amount of $150 million. We owed $150 million. We now have $150 million in our bank account. But be careful, that money is not supposed to sit in our bank account. It's supposed to consistently be allocated to the member associations, to football for boys and girls, to training of referees and coaches. So you will see from our financial statements we keep as little money as possible on our balance sheet because the money is not supposed to be in our bank account. It's supposed to be used and spent on the ground. So the performances of the African national teams at the FIFA World Cup reflect the quality of African football. Look, Egypt was winning 2-0 against Argentina. Cameroon drew with the champions. And he's from Nigeria. Nigeria has got some of the best players not just in Africa but in the world, and I'm confident Nigeria will continue to make us proud as it did in the past. Same Cameroon and same every one of the 54 African national teams.

I remember when I was a student at this and Daru always reminds me of this, and you know, we were marching against the government, against the parties, and we were fighting, and we said you know they can get us and we will keep fighting. And then the police were standing outside Fitz and they had such big sticks, you know, and we were debating should we continue with the march, and one guy from Natal said guys let us just pray and go home, you know, because if we keep marching they're going to hit us so hard. And then of course there were those who said no, no, no, we have to go on. So going to the issue of South Africa, again we've got to keep giving positive messages, and it's very clear we have to unite to keep South African football together, united both within SAFA and as well as the relationship between SAFA and the PSL, very, very important. And you said something very important: CAF will be there to support as well as FIFA to make sure that the processes are in compliance with the CAF and FIFA statutes and regulations. But what the president of CAF cannot do is to say I like Lux but I don't like John. You don't do that. I had the same problem in Côte d'Ivoire when Drogba wanted to stand as president of the football league. I like Drogba, made us proud, as much as I like Eto'o and all the football players, we're all proud of them. But I had to tell a meeting where there were many, many more people than what is in this room that my job is to support and make sure it's all done in a manner that's legal and ethical, and to make sure that the candidate that wins is the one that enjoys the support of football in the country. But we should not listen... I know Danny. He's somebody I've known. I like him. I know Sunday. Sunil was my secretary general when I was president of black business, and I was given the job to say you have to unite black and white businesses. Big challenge. So Danny will phone me and say whatever he wants. Sunday will phone me and say whatever he likes. But I think there's a clear understanding that as a president of CAF, I have to maintain a position of impartiality and neutrality. But having said that, I have a big stake like all of us. This country has got enormous potential, enormous potential. You know, this country can produce a national team that will be in the not just the semi-finals but the finals of the FIFA World Cup. Can do that. It won't happen overnight, but it starts with everybody working together. Dr. because he's an old older, he keeps telling me that he is implementing my father's agenda in football. So I said, but if you are implementing my father's agenda in football, what agenda am I implementing? But you know, we ask now. So of course I know I was born in Orlando, so if you were born in Orlando you have no choice. They said if you will support Pirates whether you like it or not. And then of course we got exposed to Kaizer Chiefs very young boys from the family love Kaizer Chiefs, love Orlando Pirates, love all the others. So I'm confident that the process will be in a manner that's appropriate. That's our job to also supervise that, and the decision will be taken that's in the interest of football, and we will work together and support whichever candidate has been chosen by the leadership of football in the country. Okay.

Well, let me say this. CNN asked me, don't answer it. I mean, CNN asked me along the same line of questions that you did. And my answer is very simple. South Africa does not need me to go into politics. There are many very capable, very good leaders in this country. I've had, I don't want to mention names. I've had the enormous privilege. The only problem I have is I'm not part of any group. And that's why even some of the friends who are my friends say things which are not flattering, because somebody said to them that somebody might persuade me to change my view. But that's not my brothers, man. I understand why they say so or why they make these statements because they've got a lot at stake in the context of the group that they belong to and they need that group to succeed. I understand that. But no, no, no person is indispensable. I mean, I've had the privilege of leading black business. I don't know. We made black and white business. And you actually judge a leader by not how good things were when he was there or she was there, but what happened when they've gone. And this is the issue that I'm applying my mind to now within CAF. I deeply love this country and I deeply love the people of this country, and have the privilege of doing the things where I think I can make a contribution. I mean this thing about FIFA... let me rather say, I've said on many occasions, FIFA doesn't listen. I love FIFA, huge enormous contribution that FIFA does, but I have no desire or ambition to be president of FIFA. Doesn't excite me. But I feel like at 3:00 in the morning and tell him about something I should have told him last week which I thought of at 3:00 in the morning, but because I didn't phone him at 3:00 I forgot. But also this country has got good people, many good people. We shouldn't only focus on our failures and deficiencies, which are many of them, but there's so much that we should take confidence from and be proud of. And the religious leaders I had the privilege of interacting with, because values and what you believe in and what you stand for is very important. And the traditional leaders, the kings, and also all political parties, every single political party, I don't want to mention names, the people I've had the honor to interact with. And it's easy for me, I mean I can stand by the sideline and say that it's like football for example. When they came to me and said we want you to consider being president of CAF, one of the leaders said it doesn't even come to meetings of the football board of governors because I don't need to go there because you've got an CAF and Dr. CAF, Dr. Mud, people I love, I've got a long history with both of them, and various others. Good work and the work that has been done in SAFA under Danny and various others. Let's look at the good. You will always find things to criticize because it's society. But I want to conclude by saying that my biggest contribution is when I have the capacity to keep engaging as I'm privileged to with all leaders of all political parties, because no political party can take this country forward on its own. The voters have shown us that. So let's think about the poor. Let's focus on the poor and the unemployed, and we will all do much better. Let's go back to football now.

Football question. Yes.

I want you to try to but it's people like you that makes me proud. I mean this continent has got exceptional young talented people like yourself, exciting ideas, new ways of doing things. See how we can work together and support you guys. Definitely thank you so much Mr. President. So, as I was mentioning, we're connecting African players, coaches, and academies straight to global sponsors, clubs, investors, media, and educators. So our talent is seen at home and schooled whilst it's here. How receptive do you believe the continent is, especially in South Africa, to building a commercial bridge between Africa and Europe, where for once the greater share stays on this side of it and where you would have our star. Let's get hands. Come. Because I think even those who compete with you clap softly. But you see, this is the point. There are certain things we cannot do immediately, but there are so many things we can do and sometimes we don't even recognize that. So you must talk to L. I can tell you CAF has got enormous infrastructure networks, but they don't use those networks and those partnerships with business to the benefit of young leaders like yourself and others. You know, my brother there who spoke earlier, and thank you so much for your wonderful remarks. The point I was going to make is that partnerships are very important. When I went into the mining business, one of the things I was clear about, more than 35 years ago, was to partner with the best in anything you do. Partner with the best. So whether in the businesses that we are involved in as a family, we partner with the best because we learn from them and we are part of what CAF must do. And we will, everyone. There are things we can do. We not just talk about what we will do. There's a lot. So talk to Lux, talk to Samson and remind them I have to approve their bonuses. If you say that they're helping young people like yourself to succeed, I'll increase their bonuses. And I'll do the opposite if they do. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you. Very proud of you. God bless you, sir.

I've told your business very well. They were saying to me you are cash plus. I love it. Test.

Brilliant. Brilliant. We, I didn't put in the press statement, there's discussion to allow you when you come in one country you can go to all three. And let me correct this: the fact that we respect the sovereignty of every nation in terms of their decision of who comes in and who doesn't come in doesn't mean that we don't engage with...

We have to and we engaged with them with the objective of saying make it as easy as possible. I mean when you went to Kata, I'm told that if you show them you had a ticket.

So, I must say I'm very proud of those heads of state of those three countries because that Madame Sudulu and President R and President Musei deep commitment and excitement to make sure that the Afcon is enormously successful. I mean the president of football in Uganda said to me we have never had so many people visit Uganda as what happened last year during the football competition called the CH. So immediately the country sees wow, the hotels are full, the airplanes are full, people buy food, the restaurants are full. I don't want the hospitals to be full. But there's money, the jobs are being created. That's the money that's going around, that's developing the economy. That's excellent. So I can assure you, we've had discussions that actually there's discussion as I said of ensuring that you apply for a visa or as I don't want to conclude because we will make announcements but the objective is to make sure that it allows our football fans to move around as quickly and as freely as possible. I was in LA. I went to watch one of the football matches and as I left, one of the people I haven't seen, I last saw you when I was working in America many many years ago, and he said to me we are going to come, I'm bringing my whole family, we're going to come and watch the football in Kenya and what we are going to do is we're going to go on safari. So we're going to link our watching of football with taking the family on safari. Beautiful because he's not the only one. I've heard many other people say that the whole palo and pommoja is going to be enormously successful. But thanks for the question.

There are certain things you should never be persuaded about. And nobody is going to persuade me to serve more than two terms in CAF. It's not going to happen. We took a decision to support and I personally support Infantino. He's not just a good friend, he's a loyal friend. He's loyal to Africa. And again, I come from a different background where when people have been loyal to you, you never stab them in the back. You never do that. As I said, to help in Africa that excites me. FIFA doesn't need me. So nobody's going to be able to persuade me to change my views on those things. But also because there are other people who are very good and who will do a good job. We've got to be careful that we don't start focusing too much on certain individuals. Everybody makes a contribution but this country has got, raise your hand and become president of whatever you want to, and you used to write beautiful articles about me. I'm just saying that CAF would be fine, African football will be fine even when I'm not there. Part of the job is to make sure that there are better people than me to take over, and they bring new leadership and new focus, but overall that's good for football. But thanks for those questions and characters. And I'll go to the league behind you afterwards and then the BBC at the back there.

He does wonderful work indeed.

Very good question. You know, until an African country wins a World Cup, there will always be... what? Ultimately, that was the version of what we were saying. So, we have received so much respect for how the African countries played. Yeah. And we have to look at the psyche of our country as well. And this is so important. The psyche of our country, but also the psyche of the continent. There's so much for us to be proud about, to be inspired by. And look at the good. You'll always find good. And sadly, you also always find weaknesses and challenges. People look at how we failed in the past and say we are destined to fail forever. Remember, we come from a country where they said that there was going to be civil war, and of course we come from a difficult path. But I think the feedback I've received from top football leaders in the world is that the Africans made us proud and they could even have done even better. I mean, we were leading 2-0 against Argentina. If we just told the referee, stop the game, let's go. But we will learn. So, we've gained so much more respect and recognition. And I can tell you, I think at the next World Cup, I will not be in football. I will not be in CAF anymore. I'll go to Morocco as an ordinary football spectator and a football fan. But I think Africa will do even better. Even better.

I will thank you.

Brilliant, brilliant question. Brilliant. And what is the allocation the number? Thank you.

I mean just listening to you, something went through my mind. I spoke about the Catholic mission school I went to when I was 5 years old and spent 10 years there. They used to wake us up every morning at 6:00 and we had to go to church. Whether you like it or not, you had to go to church. Every night before we went to bed, you had to go to church. For me, those were the best 10 years of my life. But I like this, it's so important that values, what you believe in, just simple things like basic things like honesty, integrity, treat the next person the way you would like to be treated, don't lie, don't steal. Those things are embedded in God, in Allah. And it's very important that we all grew up in families where we went to church, and we should put God and Jesus Christ at the center of what we do.

Now let's go to something that crossed my mind whilst you were talking. We should have a conference where it's talking about how can people make money out of football and bring all of the football stakeholders. This reminds me of the days when I was president of Navco and would have meetings with thousands and thousands of businessmen and Dr. Map. There is so much, I mean football is a multi-billion dollar industry. I think the numbers that they talk about are in excess of 300 billion American dollars. We have to have a meeting where the focus is how does African small business, young business, all businesses get involved in football and make a living out of it. One of the things that I like enormously about this Mipe Foundation National Day of Prayer is you've got thousands of hawkers who come the night before at the FNB stadium, prepare food, and I mean some come from KZN, the Eastern Cape. Unbelievable. They come just for that day of prayer because they make so much money selling food to our people who come on that day of prayer. So we should look at, and I think the football, when there's a football match, I think our hawkers can sell things as well outside. I'm not talking about the sweets because you spoke about the tickets in America and I spent so much money, Mark, buying tickets. But those were the sweets where we had these partners and others who we want them to support football and sponsor football. But that's a brilliant idea you raised because in everything we do, and you must tell the secretary general, the secretary general is in Morocco because acting secretary general, I'm always reminded, I said please don't say secretary general, he's not acting, he does such wonderful work, he makes me proud. But we should make our events create opportunities for business people to grow their businesses, to partner, to make income. That's a brilliant idea, we should implement. I've taken a lot of press. I'll take the last two or three questions and then we have to close because they have to leave us in the media very soon. I'll go with you. Very brief question. The last three questions, then afterwards I go to BBC and then I go to the gentleman at the back.

I like what did you say about your name? You know, there's so much happened and sometimes one of the things, you see these are things that excite me. We have to provide centers of that increase. In 2011 or something, they asked me to be the first chairman of the BRICS Business Council of the five countries: China, India, Brazil, South Africa, and Russia. And one of the things we did was just what you're saying: we have to create these centers to allow interaction with the objective of entrepreneurial financial transactions. But we have to make them happen, and we will come better and better the more we make them happen. So continue.

Where did you grow up?

I'm so proud of you. You know where, I mean the rest of school as well. You see, because we need to spend more time with young people like yourselves and others because sometimes we get so overwhelmed by the immediate emergencies and pressures, the pressures we have, that this critical point you raise, we're not doing as much as we can and as much as we should. I wanted to conclude so that I can just make a few quick remarks but you've just, so you raised such good points.

Thank you so much. I, um, I've always liked and various other leaders. The same applies to every other leader who was in the ANC and those who are not part of the ANC are not always. An enormous respect. And the reason why I mentioned Tabum Becky is because of what he said about them phobia and I think it's correct to say that what Julia said as well, Julius Malik. Very good. Very good. Now let me clarify two points on this issue of afrophobia and xenophobia. Illegality in all its forms. We will not tolerate. We reject illegality. And that includes illegal migration. I mean, nobody, and of course criminality as well. We are totally against illegality in all these forms as well as illegal migration.

And then there's a separate issue. And that separate issue is when people legally come to this country. You know, something weird is happening in other parts of Africa. You come from outside the continent. You're a tourist. We welcome you. You're a tourist. You're not coming here to take people's jobs because our job, of course, as a country, every country in Africa, your first obligation is your people. Without a doubt. The number one obligation of the government of South Africa is to create jobs and create a future for its people, 100%. And any form of illegality, whether by our South Africans or people from outside the continent, should not be tolerated at all under any circumstances. You've got to take effective legal action and ensure that there's a huge amount of respect for the law, non-negotiable. But you know, for businessmen like myself, South Africa has no future. And we'll talk about it in the context of CAF and football. We have no future as a country. I meet the top businessmen, the top politicians, the top heads of state in the world, have done so for the last 30, 35 years. We have no future if we don't partner with the continent. And it's politically unpopular to go and educate our people to say to them that we are all Africans. And Africans means whether you're white or black or green or whatever, we are Africans. And we are enriched by the different culture, the different languages, the different ways, the multi-racial, multicultural appearances of our people. But you will never be able to create the jobs that we need in this country and create a bright future for all our people without taking out the negativity and educating our people to realize that we have to interact with the continent in a manner that's mutually beneficial. I mean, something weird happened about 20 years ago when I was hosting a, one of my children were being baptized, and we had invited many of our relatives and other guests to be there at the baptism. And as one of the families were leaving, some guys came in a car and said to them they wanted to rob them. And they said, but now we see that you are South African, and because you are South African, we mean there should be no robbing at all, but we thought that you were foreigners. And because we thought you were foreigners, we wanted to rob you. So, you know, and that's why young people like yourself and others, the concern about our people not getting jobs is a legitimate concern, and we've got a duty to do that. And of course, that's also an equally legitimate concern when some of our businesses don't employ South Africans but employ people from outside the continent because they are prepared to accept low wages. But we will, you know, we have to do the right thing and educate our people and say to them that illegality will not be tolerated, and we will also, from CAF, we will issue those statements. We have to say we support the cooperation, the working together of Africans on the continent. We will not tolerate, we cannot support illegality. We cannot support illegal migration. You cannot, because all over the world, you've got, and some of the leaders are correct when they raise issues to say that, if we should try and create jobs in those countries, forget about people from outside South Africa. If you don't create jobs in Limpopo, you don't create jobs in Natal, you don't create jobs in Eastern Cape, people will leave the rural areas and come to the cities because they need jobs. So we need to work together to try and create jobs in the countries in our neighboring countries and in other countries on the continent. Okay, let's go back now. The head will issue a statement to say that we support legality. We do not support illegality in all its forms, and we fully appreciate and support and recognize that the duties of every government starts with its own citizens to create jobs and to create a future for its citizens. But we should stop this intolerance and prejudice and violence against our own people just because they come from outside the continent or outside our countries. So that's why we don't want to go into politics because we've got to at times stand for what is ethically and morally correct. And they say, but you're going to lose votes. If you lose votes for what is ethically and morally and principle and in line with our religious convictions and upbringing, then lose the votes. That's what we should teach our children.

So, you will engage with Sorry.

You will engage with him and he must draft the statement for camp. Okay.

Good question. Good question. Now I have this difficult question. I have to go to Mali. I've been there and the military was in control. But I went there because of football. I have to go to Burkina Faso and some of the African heads of state said don't go there because there's a military junta down there. I have to go to Niger and some of the heads of state say don't go there because there's a military leadership. But again, I think we've got to deal with reality. And of course, democracy and freedom of speech and regular elections, that's not emotional, and that's critical. But I will be visiting those countries to engage on the football part. And of course, the decision as to where the Afcon will go is the decision of the exco. There are so many presidents who say to me they think I have the power to decide magically that Afcon is going to go to a certain country. I don't want that power. Because part of my duty is also to create a culture where CAF functions in a manner that reflects ethics and governance and transparency, but also global best practices. So we don't know at this stage where the Afcon is going in 28, 32, and 36. And Niger and Mali will have as good a chance as everybody else. They are not going to be disadvantaged or prejudiced by the fact that their military junta. But you raise a very important point. The questions of safety and security are questions that we will have to address. Good. There's no decision that has been taken as to where it will go. But it's a very good question.

Very good question because you see we have to work with the rest of the world and the rest of the world includes countries in Europe and in America or countries in North America and in Latin America and in Asia. So that proposal will be looked at in the context of any other proposal. But I can tell you the standards are very high, very high. We have to be convinced that there'll be free movement of our fans and spectators and supporters in and out. We have to be convinced, and this applies to every country, that our fans and our guests will be safe, will be protected by the police and everybody else, good infrastructure, because it's also a moment to strengthen the ties between our people on the continent as well as our people in Africa and the rest of the world. So, those countries are members of CAF, they've come to put in the bid, we've got to look at it, we've got to look at the infrastructure, there's an independent entity that has to go there and make and do a report, so they'll come back and say the stadiums are good or are not good, the hospitals and the hotels and all of those infrastructural requirement. And sometimes football can just be the tool to bring people together. Of course, I can't talk in public what I discussed privately with the head of state, but part of my duties is the people in the country and not just the football supporters, and the commitment that all of us have to democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of association, and the sort of fundamental principles that are important for us on the continent. Right. Thank you very much, President.

Very good question because, you know when there's an AFCON I have an opportunity to meet with the referees. I maybe see them once or maybe even twice a year, and that's an opportunity to do two things. Number one, to emphasize that we want them to have a future in football where they earn good money, can create a future, to diminish or even eliminate the chances of corruption. And it's also an opportunity for me to hear from them what are we not doing well as CAF, what are the areas where we should improve, as well as, thank God, as well as areas where they're happy that we're making progress. So it became clear to me that to be a referee at the FIFA World Cup is an honor, and they earn good money. And we've also significantly increased what they earn, and we still can do more and we will do more. So when I saw that, it really saddened me because I gave him an award last year on behalf of the 54 CAF member associations as our top referee. Excellent referee. And it was necessary to try and ameliorate the experiences he had. And that's why I said I want to thank you, a thank fan, for the partnership. And he will be the referee, and it's the champions of the two club competitions in Europe at the highest level. It's a great honor for me, for Africa, for African referees. And it's a great honor for him as well. And what made me happy is to hear him laugh. And you can't hear people smiling, but you can hear them laugh and be happy over the phone and express so much joy. And so, very, very happy. And we will keep supporting and keep assisting our referees because we're very proud of him. As much as we are proud of every one of the referees on the African continent. Thank you very much.