Kim Andersen: Cycling's enduring sports director

Uh, old school map.

Radios. I really don't know. Sometimes I was always 200% for the radios, but nowadays I think we need them for the safety. But yeah, you know, we can't coach if we don't have the radios because the road, it was no problem if we are doing Tour of California and the road are big and we can move up with the car and we can talk to the rider without any danger. But in Europe there is so much shit on the road that it's nearly impossible to move up or pass in the peloton to go in the break or something, that I really don't see how we can work without radio.

For me it's no question: rainbow jersey.

Winning a grand tour.

Right now, I'm in Denmark. I have been here for one week because normally I was not planned for the Tour because I should concentrate on the Vuelta, but then something changed that I need to go to the Tour. But then I went home the last three days because I have a grandkid and we need to do the baptism, and we did that on the Saturday, the 20th, in the north of Sweden. And as you already know, I always drive the car most of the time, so I went from Gap to north of Sweden in two days. And yeah, I'm back, so I was recovering a little bit. For this week, tomorrow I go back to Luxembourg, and then I will start to work on the Vuelta. We do some recon. My next race is the Vuelta.

Yeah, we were in Denmark for the championship on the weekend, and then I went to Luxembourg, and then Wednesday morning or Wednesday lunchtime, I left Luxembourg, and then I was at the hotel at midnight in the evening. Luxembourg is very central, so it's always easy to move around in the car.

No, that has changed a lot. We need to keep it within the limit because there's too much control. And also in our time, not always, it was going from one country to another country, but nowadays everything is coming. So it happened that I pay sometimes, but I think where I gain the most time is not to stop too much.

Yeah, it has changed a lot compared to when we were working together because at that time I had my good maps and I drew the parcours in the evening before, and then you looked a little bit at the wind. And I think that way I was quite good to do that. But today we more or less do everything on V. Viewer. And like I said, I was not for the Tour, so I was not really doing the preparation for the Tour. But now for example, I'm doing the preparation for the Vuelta, and now I'm going through every stage. So I take today example, I took stage four, I used two hours to go through the whole stage on the computer, and I make some notes to put in there. So it's already marked now where we will give the bottles, already marked now. So when you come to the Vuelta onto stage four, you already have the whole thing prepared. What I miss nowadays is that everybody is doing the same. We all use V. Viewer, we all use the same wind app or weather app, so you don't surprise anybody anymore because we all have the same information. At the time we were working together, you had a map, you could be good at reading the map. You already know that 50% of the days only had the map from the book, and some of us had a real map, and I think Gallopin and me we always had friend's map that was really detailed. And if you were good at that, you could make it different. But today all World Tour teams and even other teams are working with V. Viewer, you have the wind direction on V. Viewer, and you have ten weather apps where we look at all the same. So on that way, it's less surprising.

WhatsApp, Google Maps. Easy to find a hotel. Boom, clack, you are there. And with Google Maps, when you organize the time to go to the start, you just put the point in and you see how much time you need. This thing makes it a lot easier to organize when you need to leave the hotel. And I don't know how we did that at our time. I really don't know how we found the hotel and everything without losing too much time. Bobby, I mean, we can tell you, we come to the finish line, the murs, when I tell you, 'Oh yeah, yeah, just go straight, first left, and you are there, it's one minute.' It's 20 minutes, 50,000 corners. You get lost, so mad, you are about to kill somebody. It happened all the time like that. Bobby, right? Never trust that one year after the finish line, I always double check with somebody else. Or don't trust your memory because you're completely exhausted after the race, so you have a memory of a goldfish, like eight seconds. Nowadays, I still don't like to go from the finish to the hotel with the bike because as you said, you always get lost. And nowadays we make a GPX file to put in to go, but then the riders still forget to put the GPX file in, so it's the same shit. Some things never change.

Yeah, if we have to go, then it's easy to make a GPX file and then just put it on the Vu or Garmin.

Um, no. I think if you have a good DS and if you are strong, you win the race, yes. But there are 200 riders who want to be there first, and we can't all turn first on this right turn. And there are still people who sit and sleep, or riders who sit and sleep and don't think. 'Ah, it's not so much.' And also the opposite way, we are making stress a lot of time for nothing because every team has a car in front of the race. 'Ah, I see, I see, I see a fan, there's a little bit wind there, a little bit wind.' And every team is the same, so they all make the same stress. But I don't see a way without the radio. That's the problem.

I still think I have it also for the new generation of riders, who like to ride with me in the races. So something I have, but I don't know. Yeah, I try to think a little bit as a rider, but okay, now it's many years ago that I was a rider, but still I have... I don't know. I just... I think I'm quite reasonable. For example, we had this crash in Pays Basque this year. We passed the crash and then we got stopped, and we didn't know if the race keep going or not. And a guy like Dani... he said to me after the race, 'I never had one who was so calm as you in this situation.' I think this may be some things like this. I don't think anybody really hear me screaming when it was going bad. I mean, it's easy to be this when we win, but you need to be there when you lose. That's where you show that you are a good director. That's when you help the guys who are down to go up. Because when you're winning, then there's no problem. Everybody can be a DS.

I think this is still working because you really see somebody they keep the plan but they had and you see that doesn't work. I like that it's not just like a plan you can do it. You know, I think it's nice that you still have this. You said before that you just need to be strong and then you go win, but you still have situations in the race that it's not the strongest who win. And I still think that it's a very beautiful thing in bike racing that you can still have a break, and normally it should not work, but it still worked. Like example like you in your time, this still happened, it happened less, but it still happened that you can do a short promising breakaway and do it to the finish. Things like that. For me, that's really one of the beautiful things in this sport.

I don't know. I just... I really think I still have the patience, still after 28 years as this. And I just say to myself, I can't tell you, Bobby.

No, I think I adapt for the new time very well. You have to see also that these new kids, they invest a lot in. And you were pro, I was pro, but they are really, really professional. And sometimes I think it's too much. But on the other hand, they do the career. I don't think they will do a long career. I don't think all the kids we are seeing flying will go to 35 because you can't live this life for a long time. They are so concentrated in it and they give everything. But for me, I think I adapt good. I know that they are coming younger and I will soon go to retirement, but for the moment I still have the same patience and I love my job more than ever. It's a different job than 15 years ago, but I still love it.

I think there's no space because everybody is so good and everybody gives all. The level is so good all over that there is no space for a patron.

Personally, we don't scout. We have Michaela who is our scouting guide and leading the young team, where my son also is a director. So we of course see them, but my situation now is just I work with the riders we have. For the moment, I have one or two riders where I'm very close, where I'm the most. That's of course Mattias Skjelmose and... and what is it? What makes a connection? I don't know. We started some way, okay we are the same nationality, but I think I was there when they came to the team and we build up something good. Especially with Skjelmose because he does the classics where I'm not loving too much, but Skjelmose does more of the races that I really like. So we have really built up a good relationship, like I had with Frank and Andy. This is the same what I have now with Skjelmose and also Matt. In the races where we are together in planning and so on. But I can't tell you, it's a connection that comes naturally.

Mattias? It's a long and hard race, it's hilly at the end, it's going to be hot as crazy, and there's a little bit of up to the Sacré-Cœur. You still stick with Matt? I mean, he's a legend absolutely, but it's some tough climbing in the end.

Yeah, I know. I tell you, if he didn't crash in the Tour, he would have smashed everybody in this Tour. He was at the best level of his life. And that was a pain in the ass for us that he was in this crash and needed to stop. But it didn't really make sense to keep going, so he took it right over. And I believe he's there. I know it's a long race and a lot of things can happen, especially in Olympic. I think it's a race where things can happen, what we talked about just before, that surprising things can happen. But he has a good team behind him, probably the best team behind him. The Belgians will be good too with Van Aert and Remco. But I believe they can match them with Skjelmose also in the shape of his life and Matt is really back where he was at the start of the Tour.

Yeah, but it's tough, it's weird. You know, going from racing with your CSC guys and then having to go and race with the Americans, there was still you would give up a wheel a little bit easier, you would take a little extra pull, you may share a water bottle. And especially with the length of the course this year, you're going to need those friends around, not just the guys with the same flag on the back of their jersey. So yeah, I find that kind of interesting.

I have really a lot, but it's easy for me to pick out two. For my own career, the two times when I got the yellow jersey. The first time was a little bit surprising, the second time I really went for it and still got it. So in my own career, it was not a win, but to have the yellow jersey in the Tour, for me is the biggest thing. When you have it, more days, that was really big. But then as a DS, I think there are a couple of situations where I really loved. I don't know if you remember the Tour de France that started in London, and we are coming to France, we had the yellow jersey with Fabian. And into what is the... we started in Compiègne? Yes, you finish in Compiègne? Yes, I remember that. And then 5 kilometers to the finish, 'Now go, go, go, go,' and then the break also went in the front and we could beat them. So at that moment in the car, we lose the yellow jersey, and then Fabian won the stage in yellow. Yes, I know, beating the sprinters and everything. I know, oh man, I was there, that was amazing. And then there is, in 2011, the Galibier stage. Oh yeah, the tactic, the master plan. We were already in the recon and said that Andy said, 'I fucking want to attack here.' And then the day before in Gap, we had lost a bit of time and he was a little bit down. And we made this master plan to go with two riders in the front: Apostoli? and... and it actually happened. But they didn't have the gap into the other big climb there from Go? Italy to France. And then Andy asked on the radio, 'We do the plan or we do it not?' Because we need to make tempo also in the peloton before the attack. And I know even that we had people in the front to look for the wind and everything in the valley up to Gap. I know the chance that that plan could go through was 1%, 99% chance that it was suicide. But to take that word to say 'Yes, we do the plan, we do the attack,' that was one of my biggest decisions as a DS. Because in my stomach I know this will never work.

Yes. But to take this decision at that moment, knowing there is such a big chance that it will not work, that was hard. But in the end, I remember at 3 km to the top, I think Andy has so much advantage that he could win the Tour. And I really had tears in my eyes. But yeah, then he lost a little bit too much in the last kilometer, and that was not enough for the yellow jersey. But that was a master plan. And everybody was good, all nine riders lived up to the plan. Everybody could do his pull, his tempo riding. I know it was magic.

We have seen Frank crashing in Pays Basque. Oh, I was there as well. I remember. Oh, the poor man. He goes, 'Where are we? What race is this? Oh, this is not good, this is not good.'

Well, I think as we didn't have so much money, we had some young riders and they have grown and done well, especially Skjelmose. And then because I know we have got some new riders this year, and it's good riders, but there have been circumstances that it's actually only Mads who has delivered points. Otherwise, it's more or less all our own riders who have delivered points for this year. They have just grown up and been better. And why we have been better? We have more money, and we could do more training camps at altitude, like the other teams have done. We have done much more than what we did before. There were some riders who did it alone, but now we have really done also for the women, we have prepared very well with altitude camp in July for the riders who go there. We have more money to do all the stuff with the cooling van, all this stuff, to have more people on the road to give bottles. But all costs money because you need hotel, you need... it's crazy today how impressive the stuff you have to have to do for eight riders in the Tour. It's impressive, it's crazy.

Nah, it doesn't change anything. It's just one rider less. I don't think, of course, this is special when you have a flat stage for the GC, you need to choose what you want. But I don't see a big difference between eight and nine. I'm happy that the peloton is not any bigger than this, that's for sure. Because you even see the difference when we go from 175 and we have 20 riders out, then it's even more relaxed when you start the Tour. So I think absolutely it's maximum, but it's fine. 22 teams with eight riders, that's maximum.

No, I'm absolutely 100% into that we need to get more equal. If not, it's not fun that you have eight riders who can be captains in each team in the Tour. There are some things we need to work on in this sport. One of them, I don't know exactly how, but I think that the teams should have a maximum what they can use on the rider. It doesn't mean that one rider cannot have 6 million, it's not about that, but if you use 6 for one, then you have less for the rest. I don't know where because the salaries are much higher, so we need to go very high. But I think at one point we need to fix that each team can only buy riders for this amount of money. Because there is too big a difference. A salary cap, yes. Not on individual rider, I don't want that, I still want the good riders to get more paid. But the team has a salary cap. For example, to explain it simply, Team UAE's eight riders at the Tour, the salaries of these eight riders we look at 12 million, 13 million EUR maybe at least. And that is the salary of the teams that are 18th, 19th, 20th in the team classification. So eight riders of Team UAE represent the entire budget for an entire team which has less strong sponsors. And that's where I believe we struggle with finding equal chances for everyone.

No. When we saw the original plan, it was that yes, but it's too hard a Vuelta. There is nearly no sprint, there's one or two bunch sprints. So we and he wants to win races, he's not there for just pulling. So he goes to other races. But now, I don't know when this is coming out because I don't know how much I can say. Next Friday, not this Friday but next Friday. Okay, then we are close to the world? Well, it's okay, we don't want you to get in trouble, Kim. Just say you will bring a good team. We will go all in for Mattias Skjelmose, and we have built a team around him. But we will also have Mads there, he's on the way back, and we want to... so he will be just the second captain. But we really go for it. I think it's a very interesting Vuelta, where there will be many stages with two races in one. There will be many days where the break will go for the stage victory and behind there will be a fight for the GC.

Yeah, so I think it will be a very interesting Vuelta, because you also have quite a lot of people who just go for the Vuelta now. I believe there will be more: Benoot, Kelderman, Christenson, and so on. I think there's a spot for sure. Is there any news about him? They say it's not sure because he has broken something in his back, but I don't trust it. I want to see the start line.

No. Okay, good. Okay, I think so? I think he could do it, but it doesn't matter how? Then he will be dead for two years and they don't want that. I'm sorry, you know I know Pogacar and so on, but he has not at all been like last year. Even okay, I know he has been sick and so on, but I think when you have been so many years at the top, for me it was clear it was impossible to have three grand tours to have a year again like this next year. Maybe that now saved him a bit that he didn't do the Tour, could recover and have a good training and be ready for the Vuelta.

So you too. I will always do it. No problem.