It's the Amazing Rico Bronya podcast with your host Evan Roberts. It is a brand new edition of Rico Bron. How we doing? It's episode 742 of the Rico. We got a lot to discuss. The big kind of story of this Rico will be the owner of the New York Mets, Steve Cohen, who decided that right before the Mets wrapped up their home stand and wrapped up their three-game series against the San Diego Padres, he would grace us with his presence and do like a media sitdown, if you will, answering a bunch of questions from some of the assembled media led by Steve Gelbs of SNY. So, what we do here on the Rico, and we do this a lot with David Stearns. We've done this occasionally with Steve Cohen, and we will certainly do it today on episode 742, is we are going to listen to every question and every answer that the owner of the Mets gave. So, if you haven't heard it, great. You'll hear it in its entirety, and then we will react to everything that the owner of the New York Mets had to say. Before we get to that, I alluded to this on the last edition of the Rico, and that was something that Keith Hernandez admitted to regarding going into the Met locker room to talk to AJ Ewing, which really jumped out at me because Keith in the past hasn't done that. I think the times he's been asked about, you know, giving tips or talking to current guys on the roster, he'd always say that they can come to him, but he didn't want to ever overstep his grounds or overstep the coach's grounds by going to players. So, this felt unique and different that Keith Hernandez was compelled as AJ Ewing was battling a slump to go into the locker room and talk to him. So, I want you to hear the entire clip if you missed it. It was in the sixth inning of game three of the series against the Padres. So, easy to watch the game, not really hear it, not have it kind of register in your brain. It's about 2 minutes long. I think we could all listen to it together and I'll give you some thoughts. So before we hear from the owner, Steve Cohen, let's hear from Keith Hernandez, courtesy of SNY during the broadcast from Wednesday afternoon's game.
You know, I went down the clubhouse today and I went down for one reason. I wanted to talk with AJ because he's been struggling, you know, has that look right where you feel he's getting down. And I kind of offered advice, unsolicited, and I just said, you know, don't worry about getting jammed. Don't worry about your swing. Your swing is fine. You just been pulling off and that's all there is to it. And you know, you're getting that pitch away and you've been facing a lot of left-handers of late. You've been taking a lot of fastballs away. I know you like the ball away and you're taking it, that's into your strength. Don't worry in. And I said, 'The pitchers are out there making a living. They're going to jam you once in a while. They hike with it, but they're going to.' I go, 'I'll tell you one thing. From my experience, those left-handers love that outside corner. So, just work in BP over the shortstop's head and bring it back a little bit and keep that shoulder in and drive it over the shortstop's head in BP when you can do that into left center field and it'll come back to you.' And what was AJ's response? I said, 'I hope I haven't, you know, gone out of bounds here.' And he goes, 'No, no, no, no. Thank you very much.' So the door down on strikes with the second out. I just felt compelled to do that because I think this young man, I said, 'You're going to be here a long time. You're doing great and you're going to come out of this and it's not going to be the last time something like this happens.'
I mean, beautiful paternal voice that you use when you're offering a bit of advice.
Little pat in the back. He's a fine player. He's going to be fine.
I thought that was fascinating because it's not something we've heard a lot of. And Keith Hernandez is generations removed from AJ Ewing. Like, I put it in this perspective. I'm 43 years old, so for some of our listeners, I'm kind of old. I don't remember Keith Hernandez as a player. Like his last year with the Mets was in 1989. I was six years old. I just don't remember it. So, he's not even my generation. And AJ Ewing is obviously a very young man. He's not my generation either. So, Ewing to Hernandez is separated by a good amount of generations. And I think that Keith Hernandez showed you he believes in AJ Ewing and he kind of said that, 'Hey, you're going to be here for a while.' And I thought that was very cool that he went down there to really just relax him and give him a pep talk. And I thought Gary's followup was very important, which was what did AJ Ewing say? You know, there is some guys who may not take enjoyment to hearing anything from an older grizzled veteran. So, it was nice to hear that AJ Ewing said thank you. And what we will now do on the Rico is keep track of AJ Ewing's numbers since the conclave with Keith Hernandez. So, we have Wednesday's game against the Padres. He got on base twice. I'm trying to remember if he had an outfield assist in that game. I don't have my scorebook in front of me. It was one of those games, but from now on through the rest of the season, we will see if Keith Hernandez is, you know, pat on the back, arm on the shoulder gets AJ Ewing going. So, interesting stuff there. Now, let's hear from the owner of the New York Mets. It was before Wednesday's game. He sat in the Met dugout and he said, 'All right, guys. What do you want to know?' So, here's question number one for the owner of the New York Mets, Steve Cohen.
Steve, just in general, what have you made about this recent stretch post deadline for the group?
Yeah, listen, it's fun to see. I mean, watching some of these younger players come up and they've worked hard in their career and they're starting to, you know, demonstrate they're pretty good at what they do, too. So, and I think it's fun for the fans, right? I mean, and winning's better than losing. I mean, generally. And so, you know, so I think it's creating a little excitement and hopefully it'll carry through to the end of the year and give us good feelings into next year.
I don't know how much winning now means anything for 2027. I think we're evaluating performances, no doubt, but I don't know if you necessarily build momentum into the following season. But Steve Cohen is right. Winning is better than losing. And even though this season is a massive, massive disappointment and even a strong finish won't change that, it has been exciting and I think you could hear it in the crowds at Citi Field. While yes, overall no one is talking glowingly about the 2026 season, the run has been enjoyable. It'd be more enjoyable if they weren't a million games out of first place, but yes, winning is better than losing. I could agree with that.
Has understanding that it is a small sample size, has it in any way shifted your perspective on how close or how far away you may be to where you want to go next year?
Well, listen, this year wasn't great, right? And so, yes, it is a small sample and but you know, underneath I think there's a lot of things to kind of be excited by. The development of our young players is significant. That creates a nice foundation for next year. It'd be great if we can get Soto and Lindor on the field at the same time, right? That'd be kind of fun to see, you know, and have him play a full season together. That's impactful, obviously impactful. And having Francisco back, you can see the energy that comes back and, you know, what a great player he is. And I think getting him on the field really matters. You know, a lot of players, we've had new players and they've adjusted to New York and you can imagine them feeling much more comfortable next year and so I think there's a lot to look forward to here. I see the foundation of something that I think we can get behind. But you know, we'll see how it goes, right? And but I'm getting more optimistic. I like what I see and hopefully it continues.
Well, number one, that doesn't sound like an owner that has any interest in breaking up the duo of Francisco Lindor and Juan Soto. That's number one. Number two, yeah, what makes this bad season, and again, I feel like I say it all the time, I'm saying it again, this is an all-time bad season for the New York Mets in terms of payroll, in terms of expectations, in terms of everything that happened in the offseason. But one thing that makes this season so different than some of the other bad seasons is, yeah, there are young players to feel good about. There are young players and a foundation to feel positive about. And he certainly talked about Lindor and Soto being a part of that foundation. So I don't think that's going to eliminate trade rumors or trade ideas, but that man like before the trade deadline doesn't sound as if he has a strong interest in breaking that duo up.
Steve, what goes into your commitment to David in the front office right now?
Listen, I'm committed to David. I've said that before. And you know, we're going to move forward and I thought we had a great trade deadline. And you know, listen, David is smart. He knows what he's doing. He's very adaptable. He learns from mistakes and that's what I want in a leader.
He learns from mistakes. Well, obviously we have a long list of mistakes as Met fans that we feel David Stearns has made. I'd be very curious to see if he does learn from those mistakes. Now, one of the mistakes he made, or at least what I believe is a mistake, is eliminating the certainty from this lineup. Letting a guy as reliable as Pete Alonso walk away. How do you learn from that? It's not as if the Mets have another Pete Alonso who's about to enter free agency where we can see him eliminate that mistake. So, I hear that comment and it is important to learn from your mistakes. I try to do that every day. I think most of us try to do it with our daily lives, but I'd like to see how David Stearns has learned from his mistakes. With that said, that answer is no surprise. He believes in this team president. That has not wavered. Saying the Mets had a great trade deadline. It's a theory. It's a theory. I think back to three years ago when Steve Cohen laid out the checks to pay off the Verlander and Scherzer contracts and the players they got back were Ryan Clifford who was just placed on the developmental list which is a list for a guy in the minor leagues who is struggling. And so instead of, you know, doing something with them, you're not getting rid of them. You're taking them off the active roster to work on their development. That's where Ryan Clifford is three years after that trade, which means it's looking as if Ryan Clifford is never going to develop into an impact major leaguer, maybe not even a major leaguer. Drew Gilbert isn't here anymore. He was used as a piece to trade for Tyler Rogers. Luisangel Acuna isn't here anymore. He was traded for Luis Robert Jr. So, while I'm excited about Jefferson Rojas, too, and Billy Eppler is hitting the crap out of the ball. So, yes, there are some early returns in the minor leagues that feel positive. It's tough to say it was a great trade deadline. We don't know if it was a great trade deadline. Ironically enough, I mentioned the three guys they got back in 2023 in the Verlander and Scherzer deals and how the book is almost closed on those trades not being incredibly successful. Drew Gilbert again used as a piece for a quality reliever and Tyler Rogers who's not here, Ryan Clifford on the developmental list. So, jury still out and obviously Acuna helped them briefly in 2024. I don't want to diminish that, but overall didn't turn into an impact player. Marco Vargas, who was, I think, 17 years old when the Mets acquired him, was brought in in the David Robertson trade and is now in double A and performing well. So, I guess it shows you the trade deadline when you sell off guys, you have no idea what to expect. The guy from that deadline who may end up having the best impact is one of the teenagers they got for David Robertson. So, when you say the Mets had a great trade deadline, in theory they had a great trade deadline. We have no idea how this stuff is going to work out, but Steve Cohen has bought in that they did a great job at the trade deadline. Here's more from Steve.
What mistakes do you think he made this year?
Well, you know, listen, I mean, I can argue we might have taken too much risk, you know, as far as when you think about all the changes that were made and whenever there are significant changes, sometimes it takes a while to integrate and so, you know, those are the things I'm looking at and you know, it's an example where we can do better.
It's a very interesting answer he gave about all the changes that they made and maybe there were too many changes and too many risks that were taken. You could interpret that two different ways. One way is they just made too many changes just in general. I take it or at least the risk that I like to talk about is that you let guys go who while flawed, no one is perfect. And while you may have had to have kept long contracts that you don't like or given out long contracts you don't like, kind of give you a certainty. Pete Alonso and Brandon Nimmo bring a certainty to the lineup. Again, they are not perfect. We spent plenty of times complaining about Brandon Nimmo. Very good Met. And I say complaining about Brandon Nimmo only because one of the at bats that stands out at me from last year, we talked about this a few days ago, was Nimmo strikeout against the Nationals late in the season of 2025. He's not a perfect player. He slumps for long periods of time. His defense has gone backwards. I am not suggesting Brandon Nimmo was untradable, but Nimmo and Alonso brought certainty, right? They brought a reliability factor. When you look at the guys they brought in to replace them, there's just less reliability in their resumes. Jorge Polanco, and I remember saying this when they signed him, is not a bad player, he's not a reliable player. Luis Robert Jr. has a high upside. He's not a reliable player. Marcus Semien is aging. And when you look at his age and the way he's diminished compared to Nimmo and Alonso, at least in the first year, I have more certainty in the guys I got rid of. So when he talks about the risks they take on, he wasn't specific. And I think all of us can determine or kind of figure it out the way we want or how we interpret it. I think they put a lot of uncertainty into this lineup and they took a lot of certainty out of it. Pete's season is predictable. Like, I know the defensive metrics are crazy and we're not watching him every day to know truly is he that much better defensively in Baltimore than he ever was with the Mets. I can't tell you that. I'm not watching every O's game. But offensively, it's predictable. Brandon Nimmo, offensively, it's predictable. Now, one of the arguments about moving on from those guys is three years from now. It's not this year, but in terms of this year, they lost. And Cohen basically says it if you interpret it that way. I do. They took a lot of risks in the players they brought in and the certainty they were willing to get rid of.
As far as with David staying, what are the ways you can improve for next year? I mean, you put a lot of money into your team so far. Obviously, you need a new manager. Is there something you've identified that will make this team get back to where you want it to be?
Listen, I think it's a process. I mean, I don't think there are any magic bullets out there. And you know, but if you, I'm a process guy and if you think the processes are good and repeatable processes that generally, you know, generate good results over time. I think that's all you can do. I mean, you can't manufacture players in your farm system overnight. You know, free agency, as we see, can be dicey. And so, all you can do is make the best decisions you can and then build from that.
Free agency can be very, very dicey. But I think a lot of times in free agency, the risks that you're taking are for the latter part of the long-term contracts. Usually, when you sign good players, and not always, the Dodgers are showing it to you with Diaz and Tucker and their struggles. The risks shouldn't be early on. The risks are at the kind of the end of one contract. Let's hear more from the owner of the Mets, Steve Cohen.
What qualities have you identified as something that you'd want to see in a future manager?
Yeah, I think you know, I want a manager that can really relate to the players. I love the idea of a manager that motivates the players. As we know, playing baseball is an up and down, right? People have great moments and go into slumps and so how do you get the best out of your players and I think that's pretty important.
Doesn't really give like a direct thing he's looking for from a manager. Relate to the players. That's basically the only thing he said. Like someone who can relate to the players and I think that is more Carlos Beltran than anybody else. Now I know Albert Pujols put his name into the hat. He obviously played. Alex Cora was a player and a successful manager and even Andy Green they've played. So I guess you could argue that Cora, Pujols, and Green can relate to players too. I mean, they played and maybe different players will relate better to Andy Green than they will a Hall of Famer like Albert Pujols, but the briefness of that answer doesn't really supply much. But relate to players, at least the superstars, I think would be Carlos Beltran because he can relate to the New York pressure. He can relate for those two guys specifically and any other superstar they bring in over the next couple of years. He can relate to the hey I wasn't homegrown. I was given a ton of money and Met fans freaking hated me and some of them still do. Not as much anymore but for a period of time they didn't like me. So I'm obviously jumping to a conclusion when Steve Cohen doesn't give much of an answer on what he's looking for in a manager. But when he says relate to players, I do think Carlos Beltran, at least in the case of Lindor and Soto, is the guy that jumps to the top of mind.
What do you think of the job Andy Green has done? And would you consider bringing him back as manager?
Well, I'm going to take him at face value. You know, he's telling us that you know, he wants to go back to you know, the front office and so we're going to do a managerial search and if it turns out he wants us to throw his hat in the ring, that'll be great.
Is prior MLB managing experience a prerequisite?
Is it a prerequisite? You know, I'm going to leave that to David. You know, that's a little bit, you know, in the weeds for me. I mean, what I really think, I think we'll see quality candidates and then we can figure out what to do next.
In the weeds, it's not in the weeds, it's do you want someone who's done the job before? Like it's pretty straightforward. So, I think Cohen tried to punt that to David Stearns. I don't know how specifically this process is going to work, but it sounds as if it's, 'Hey, David, go find a manager and then I'll give you the stamp of approval that this is a David Stearns decision and Steve will put his input in at the end.' At least that's how I would interpret that. The Andy Green answer is perfect and it's essentially what I've said for a while. Andy Green said what he said about not being interested in the job full-time. I respect it. I believe that's how he felt. I don't know at the end of this run if he's going to still feel that way. You know, once you get the taste of managing again and you have success, which he pretty much has had, especially over the last few weeks, I think Andy Green may change his mind. And the way it should work for those who ask, 'Hey, Evan, would you hire Andy Green?' I'd make Andy Green a candidate. That's all. I'm not handing him the job. I think you go through the process. You go through and gauge the interest of Alex Cora and you talk to him and you gauge the interest of Carlos Beltran and you talk to him. But I would have Andy Green in the mix. And I think that our view on Andy Green, my view, your view, most people's view is just far different than when I brought his name up six months ago. Because remember early on when we were talking about potential replacements for Carlos Mendoza, I never thought Kai Correa was the number one option. I always thought it was Andy Green because he was in the front office and he had managerial experience. So when we talked about him, it was never exciting. I think his name, at least for us as fans and maybe for David Stearns himself, it's just that candidacy feels different now. But I wouldn't hand him the job. And I think Cohen's answer is great. We take him at face value, but if he changes his mind, great. Throw his hat into the mix.
When you say David maybe took too much risk, are you talking about coaching staff, player?
I just think when you add, you know, when you add new players, when you add a coaching staff, when, you know, maybe adding players with an injury history, you know, when you add risk upon risk upon risk, you know, one risk alone, you know, but when you add enough risk to something and all of a sudden you can have a dispersion of results. Now, it doesn't mean that it had to turn out bad. It just means that you have dispersion of results and maybe the possibility of an undesirable result is more of a possibility because of the risk you're taking. I equate it to running a portfolio. The more risk you take in a portfolio, yeah, you can have major upside, but also your downside can be bigger and so that you can have bigger variance in results. And I think that's what happened here.
Yes. Yes. Jorge Polanco has an injury history. To use that as an excuse to be surprised about that and Cohen isn't is incorrect because he has a history of it. It's not like it came out of nowhere. Juan Soto being hurt came out of nowhere. That's not something that's on his resume. What he doesn't include is that while David Stearns brought in a handful of injury-prone players led by Polanco and Robert Jr. in terms of their history, Marcus Semien doesn't have a long injury history. Bob Bashette doesn't have a long injury history. They've had injuries, don't get me wrong, but not as checkered as the other two guys. You also subtracted guys who don't have an injury history, and he leaves that out. He didn't want to touch talking about the popular Mets that are gone. Whether you agreed with the decision or disagreed with the decision, we can find common ground to admit that those two players specifically, Alonso and Nimmo, provided a reliability when it came to their health the last few years that some of the guys they brought in does not have.
With this team concerning the money that you put into... in terms of the coaching staff. Do you think maybe he did too much too soon there?
I don't see it as a question of too much, you know, coaching staff or I just think I look at it as in the whole and when I look at it in a whole, I see, you know, individual decisions that make perfect sense. But when you add it all up, then you get into a different realm of did we take too much risk? Okay. So, it's kind of looking at it from a top down perspective as opposed to an individual decision. Does that make sense to you?
Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. There were a lot of changes, coaching staff included. I think the two coaching changes that garnered the most conversation and has is Anton Richardson because of all the stolen bases they had a year ago and Jeremy Hefner. The new pitching situation with the Mets has featured some very different results. I mean, Freddy Peralta obviously had an awful season and so far in Tampa Bay, the results have been very mixed. So, it's not as if he's gone to Tampa Bay, everything's great. David Peterson went completely backwards. But for all the negatives that we can mention like Kodai Senga being an unpitchable starting pitcher, David Peterson being unpitchable to where they trade him away to Chicago. He's had mixed results in Chicago, but more good there than he had here and obviously the Freddy Peralta situation is how good the bullpen was. You know, we're currently seeing it with the new Syracuse pen and guys like Daniel De Leon and obviously the adjustment that Kodai Senga has made. So, so far when you look at the pitching overall, there's been a lot of really bad and a lot of really good. So, I don't know if I can necessarily look at the Hefner decision and say that one's a bad one. But what Cohen is saying, and we get it, is that they just made so many changes all the way around. And that's kind of why coming into the season, even though I certainly had higher expectations than what's happened, there was a volatility towards what this team could do. Like there was that feeling of they could win 95 games, they could win 75 games. Like there was a volatility in talking about this team, which you don't have with a team like the Yankees. Like you kind of know, all right, they're going to win somewhere between 86 and 96 games. While the Met volatility felt a lot bigger and I think it was because of all the changes that they made.
Just going to say with the amount of money that you put in Steve and the return you've got on the investment this year, does it change how you think about that positive? Not a great investment. Not a great investment this year. But I mean has it changed at all about what you think on how to build a team as far as spending? Like would you think of maybe, hey listen we have to look at other areas to make this team better as opposed to me just writing some big checks to... areas what are the areas to make the team better? Farm system, trades, staff, and free agency?
I mean, free agency is a negative expected value game. Okay, it just is. So if you got to constantly dip into free agency and you...
Do it enough, you know, that can come back to bite you. And so I've always said the goal is to create a sustainable farm system that's producing players like we did this year. We produced, you know, multiple players that are going to be around for a while here. And I think that's how you build a team. I know the fans like it, right? So I think, you know, that would be my preference. But if you listen, if you have to fill in holes, you have to fill in holes, too. So, you got to be tactical, but you know, every time you dip into free agency, you just know that that's a tough place to be.
In fairness, a part of why they had to dip into free agency was to replace guys they developed that they wanted to get rid of. I mean, I hate to bring everything back to the decisions that they made around not keeping Pete or trading Brandon Nimmo, but it's kind of true. Like you had to dip more aggressively into free agency because you decided not to keep one of your own, maybe one of the best developed position players in the history of your franchise, and then you made the decision that, hey, Nimmo's contract is such a negative value because it's got extra years on it. We'll take back an older, lesser player to just cut out two years of a deal, right? Which okay, we understand it, but that kind of forces you to have to fill holes in free agency.
So, it's like I get it. I understand what he's saying. Like, you don't want to build a team through free agency. Like, look at the LA Dodgers. And I know that we're having fun with their ownership situation right now, and who knows where that's going to go, but you want to be able to sign free agents, have it not work out, but also not have it derail your season. Kyle Tucker and Edwin Diaz have been the definition of disasters. And the Dodgers are a first place team. So, you have enough of a structure where you're not relying on free agency to build your team, but it's a nice weapon to have. It's a nice place to go to improve your roster. So, I didn't take that as he's not going to dip into free agency. I just think that you'd rather build a good roster. You'd rather not have to dip into free agency. And if you look ahead, and we've talked about this a lot on the Rico the last couple of years, so this is certainly not a surprise. Free agency doesn't feature a lot of the young potential stars that have been out there the last couple of years. There is no Juan Soto in free agency. There is no Shohei Ohtani in free agency. Even, you know, the Cody Bellingers and Kyle Tuckers and Bo Bichettes and Pete Alonsos not really coming up in the next couple of years in free agency. But don't take that as he doesn't want to add free agents. I think he would. I think he'd rather just have a better roster and not have to rely very much on free agency because yeah, guys are usually 30 when they get there. So, if you're giving a long-term contract to a guy who's 30 or beyond, you're risking the back end of the contract not being good or even the beginning as we're seeing with a guy like Kyle Tucker and it cost you a lot of money and then they pay a premium and this is a big question for Stearns. He has paid a premium to not go long-term. That's been the strategy. Other than Soto, they pay more per year to not go long-term. They put more of a value on, hey, let's give Bo Bichette an absurd amount of money because we don't want to go long-term. Let's give Jorge Polanco $20 million a year because we don't want to go long-term. Pete Alonso a year earlier when they brought him back. Short-term big money.
Is that always going to be the approach of free agency? Because off the top of my head, other than Soto, put him away. He is a generational stud. I don't think they've given anything out more than a three-year deal. Three has been the long term for David Stearns. Anyhow, more from Steve Cohen.
How much is the uncertainty labor-wise affected that your ability to make this team better you think next year? Just not knowing the system you could be operating.
I don't think a lot's going to change next year. Okay. I mean, I don't know how these talks are going to go, but there's a window before December 1st to, you know, make decisions and move our team forward and if we get the opportunity to do it, we're going to do it.
