I would argue now, I mean, for this to happen, let's say the material change to the bottom line. Do you believe the trigger is that increased adoption of stablecoins, RWA? I mean, you mentioned treasury management, for example. Both of these instruments are essential for it to have a meaningful improvement on the bottom line.
Well, you could have tokenized deposits, you could have stablecoins, you could have many instruments that can actually satisfy that use case. When you think about retail adoption, it is very different. Retail doesn't use crypto to pay for their day-to-day activity. They use for the most part crypto because they find it exciting, they think that they can gain financial freedom by making money, but they're not really using crypto to conduct their daily business. Right? Like, when was the last time you paid your rent, Henry, with crypto? Right? When was the last time you paid at the supermarket with your crypto wallet? I mean, maybe you do because you've been in this space for a long time, but I'm pretty convinced that even a lot of the people that are participating in this ecosystem do not use crypto. My co-founder does take his salary on Canton rails. I don't. Being very transparent, right? Like, so I think that when you start saying, 'Okay, well, what does adoption for a corporation?' A corporation is not going to trade crypto. So, I would say that the challenge there is very different. It's more of, yeah, the instruments are available, but are those instruments plugged in into all of the things that the corporate would have to interact with. And that's why I also said tokenized deposits because for the most part, a lot of the corporates do use the banks to conduct their payments and to conduct additional parts of their business. So, that actually, you know, integrates nicely with how they do business today. Again, I think that one of the things that this industry is yet to understand is that if we want to get institutional adoption, institutions by nature are lazy. And I'm not saying lazy as a negative thing. It's just purely because of like I said, there's just so many different things that they have to focus on that if I come to an organization and say, 'Hey, we can do these, you know, miraculous things with you guys.' And they go, 'Wow, Yuval, I love it. How do we do that?' And I bring this booklet of a step-by-step things of how they need to change their business to achieve that, they're going to go like, 'Get that out of here.' Right? Like I mean, like that's not—they're not going to do that, right? So, to me, I actually think the bigger challenge is not how do we make those instruments available, but actually how do we make these instruments available via a lot of technologies or intermediaries that these participants already use today.
Interesting. And give me an example where things are low-hanging fruit in there. Like is the DTCC example you have right now a good...
I'll give you a funny story and I repeat it potentially too many times. So, when we did this bond issuance with one of our partners, we went to a very famous buy-side firm and we said, 'Hey, here's this bond. You could participate in it.' And they said, 'Love it. We would love to participate. What do we need to do?' And we're like, 'Well, install this wallet.' And they're like, 'Install a what?' And I'm like, 'A wallet.' And they're like, 'Well, why? No, go to our custodian.' And we're like, 'No, you don't even need your custodian.' And we thought we were saying something positive. 'You don't need your custodian. You just take the wallet and you could see.' And they're like, 'We're going to manage trillions of dollars of assets here through this one interface? And then we're going to have a wallet with $20 million here. And that's just never going to happen. It's just not realistic.' And I have to say when that happened, I was the naive one. I was the dumb one that I came in and I was saying like this is the best thing in the world. This is how the world is going to happen. And then they were like, 'Dude, like we have a business to run here. We don't play these games, right?' So they said, 'But we're still very interested. So integrate into our custodian and we will still see your bond. It's just it will come through the same interface that we see from our custodian.' And that was a light bulb moment for me saying like if we really want to change markets and we really want to change these things, you know, we have to kind of really think about how to integrate this technology. You know, I haven't interacted yet with Robinhood chain, but I suspect given how well Robinhood executes the interface for the client, whether I traded a traditional security versus a tokenized security on Robinhood chain hasn't changed. Potentially, I would assume actually not potentially, more most likely, it's just that those assets that I trade now on Robinhood chain give me other features that before I didn't have. Which is a good outcome for me, but my interface as a client hasn't changed. Right? Where if Robinhood said, 'Hey, you have the Robinhood app here, but now if you want to use Robinhood chain, there's this whole new app and there's a whole different ways of doing things.' Like nobody would adopt it. I think that that's the biggest challenge for our industry to understand is that we really need to integrate the rails into existing interfaces to make that adoption much faster.
You believe that a lot of founders and a lot of CEOs of crypto companies then we're focusing on the wrong client. Like so we should go talk to the service providers who are serving this in the space. Do you know this ecosystem around? Like in the example you mentioned, right? Should we go focus on the custodians not the end client who's giving the instruction. But although that can argue there's a chicken and egg problem there as well.
