Oh, Leland right now. Sorry. I thought you were shopping.
I thought you were shopping. I was looking for cheese. I was looking for hell.
I like cheese. I like cheese.
There we go. I'm on it. Confidence by Gabby. As we talked about,
you don't need Jim in a box. You're already jacked. You don't need Jim in a box, but you'd look good in this stuff. You'd be a good model.
I need a lot more. I'm not sure Jim in a box is enough. Have a great weekend, my friend. It's good to see you.
All right. Good to see you. All right. Welcome to the program, friends. We kick it off with our why it matters segment. In a week, we have gone from there's going to be a blue wave to a blue tsunami. Now, to watch every other cable network, there's going to be a blue apocalypse. New Emerson polling has Democrats up 11 on the generic ballot. Someone is going to look really bad in November. We told you this a few weeks ago. Either the pollsters and the prediction markets or President Trump and the Republicans for refusing to admit Americans and to Americans that their pain is real. Everyone says Democrats will sweep this election because Republicans will be blamed for high gas prices in the war in Iran. That's possible.
It's also possible these midterms aren't about right versus left. That's why you watch this program. They are about how mad Americans are. And they're not mad at the Democrats or the Republicans. We know that because everybody's got low approval ratings. We are mad at the system because it's not working.
There is a lot of evidence that shows this is much more about just taking out whoever's in charge. Republican candidates like Michelle Toya and Chris Cenounu have a chance in traditionally blue Minnesota and New Hampshire. James Tarico has a legitimate chance in Texas. This is the biggest issue facing Republicans.
Donald Trump promised to tear down the system and now so many people see him as the system. This weekend, Trump's going to be in Knoxville attending the UT versus Texas College Football Game, Tennessee being the original UT for those who wonder. And then he is at the President's Cup in Illinois. Starts a month on the road for him. And Trump is hoping to get crowds at these events to focus on Trump, not on what's happening in the country. Try to recreate that feeling from a couple of years ago. Next week, he goes to Alabama and Oklahoma for rallies. He is campaigning like it's a presidential election. Having covered three Trump campaigns, I can tell you there is nothing in politics like Trump on the road. Both in 2016 and in 2024, Trump was trailing in the polls, but he channeled the anger of Americans left behind. We saw him do it. Americans left behind, beat down, forgotten, broke, and frustrated.
I'm going to do the right thing for the American public. I don't want their money. I don't need their money. And I'm the only one up here that can say that. It's time to drain the swamp in Washington DC. These are people who work hard but no longer have a voice. I am your voice.
Yeah, those were the days. This campaign blitz is his chance to channel that same energy and a lot can change in the next 40 days before the midterms. However, to quote the late great Yogi Berra, it is getting late early. I'll let you think about that. Trump needs to convince Americans not only does he understand their pain and he will be their voice, but the Democrats would only make it worse. If he cannot make that argument, the blue wave might end up being a blue apocalypse after all. Evan Barker, New York Times bestselling author of Nothing Left Behind. Mick Mulvaney, former Trump White House chief of staff, Crystal is author of the So What Substack. Good to see you all. Evan, your book has been getting an enormous amount of attention in a second wave from New York Magazine, the new book Democrats hate and can't stop talking about. Evan Barker quit the party, voted for Trump. Now she's telling a few of her stories. I think you are exceptionally qualified to answer the following question then. How has Trump lost the populist outsider title and trust of the American people?
Well, I think in a nutshell, Leland, there's been too much focus abroad and not enough focus at home. You know, I'm hearing from a lot of people back where I'm from in Kansas City that people are not happy about how expensive gas is, that they do not see an improvement in their quality of life, that groceries are still outrageous, that rents are still high, you know, and I know that inflation has come down a little bit and they're saying that wages are up, but I think that those big ticket items, things like healthcare, that has not changed for people. And I think that the biggest mistake that Kamala Harris made is that she didn't acknowledge the pain Americans were feeling. And it kind of feels like the GOP is doing the same thing right now.
Yeah, it does feel that way. You're starting to see Republicans nibble around the edges, but they are terrified of Trump and of the White House. Allegedly, they are going to be given a little bit more room in the last month here. Democrats though, and Axios pointed this out. We've noticed it too. Democrats are not only taking on Republicans this cycle. They're taking on the Democratic party because the Democratic party is less popular than data centers, AI, nuclear power, whatever it is. Here's just a few of Democrats on Democrats.
Washington is broken because corrupt politicians in both parties care more about their donors, their party bosses, than us. I'll stand up to anyone, Democrat or Republican, who isn't focused on what's right for them.
Washington's not just broken, it's deeply corrupt, and both parties need to shape up.
So, if we take that as the message, the winning message, Mick, of people angry, they've tried Democrats, they've tried Republicans, nobody's fixing things for them. That sounds an awful lot like Trump 2016. Can he get it back?
You know? Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm laughing because I'm thinking of Marcy Kaptur now casting herself as an outsider. I think she's been there since before I was alive. But um, you know what? You live long enough, Mick. You see everything in politics. There you go. Look, people who count Donald Trump out do so at their peril. I thought he was done after January 6th and he turned and came back. He was a populist, became a victim and was able to sell that whole message of if they could do it to me, imagine what they can do to you. Vote for me and I'll make sure that doesn't happen. That was his renaissance in the 2024 election after January 6 of 2021. And he could do it again. I don't know what that looks like and I don't know when he's going to do it because he's running out of time. You talked about his, you know, month out in the campaign. Okay. But that's only a month. We've heard from January of this year that he was going to be out campaigning for Republicans every single week and it just didn't happen. So, listen, I think it's fair to ask. He's 80 and is that different than being 70 or 68 or whatever he was when he started? I don't know. But I'm not willing to count him out because I've done it before and I've got egg on my face for it.
Okay. Well, you see, that's what makes you different, Mick, than all the establishment politicians is you admit when you have egg on your face. There's part of this is simply just acknowledging how people feel and channeling that, right? The right message at the right time. And Chris, you and I were talking about this on Substack. We did a live what we can't say on television. We're actually going to play some of the things we can't say on television, but this was you and I talking about the message from Democrats when it comes to the economy. Here we go.
And he's like, "Too many people have to work overtime." And that I think is part of you never win an election by telling people how they feel is wrong.
The concept of how I feel like I should be able to live like what's a fair price for, you know, milk costs too damn much. Well, what's a fair price? Gas is too. How much should it cost?
Man, that guy is smart. I'll tell you what. I don't know. I mean, I feel like my voice is a lot deeper than I thought it was. So, that's I got that going for me. No, I look, I think the point there is the problem and Mick, I know we've talked about this. Here's to my mind the problem for Donald Trump. What he has to stop saying in his stump speech, whether he's in Oklahoma, California, wherever he is, you cannot say in the last month of the campaign, this we're in the golden age of America. I give myself an A+ for the economy. I give myself 100%. I know that he is sort of preternaturally inclined to give himself an A+ in everything, but I think you have to be very careful to say, "Hey, look, we are halfway through. I need another two years and I need a Republican majority with me." If you try to pretend that everything is great,
you're Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and we know how that one wound up.
Yeah. No. Well, he I don't know if he's going to take your advice or not, but at least so far he has not, Chris, because Trump is going to headline a golden age event with top officials and tech executives on Tuesday.
You know how much I hate to interrupt. I do. He can't do that. That's not he's hardwired not to do that. He sells optimism. He sells enthusiasm. He cannot say the words, "I know things are rough for you." because that admits that things are rough for them and he's not capable of doing that. That's not that is not in.
But Mick, you don't think I'm wrong that you don't think I'm wrong that it sounds tin-eared when you say everything's awesome and 65% of people say the country's on the wrong track?
And that's why I think the Republicans are where they are. He cannot look.
But Mick he was able to channel the anger and that things weren't good in 2016 and 2024. Or is it because he's not able to do that when somebody could blame him for it?
What's the similarity there? He wasn't in office, right? 2016, 2024. It wasn't his fault. I mean, look, he can only go to the podium so many times and tell everybody what a hot country we are and have them, you know, look at him and say, "Are we living in the same country?" He cannot look at the camera and say, "I feel your pain." That's just not the.
Yeah. Evan, it seems like you left the Democratic party at the wrong time. You guys are getting hot or those guys are getting hot.
No. No. I still think that the Democrats haven't figured out all of their issues. As you stated at the beginning, I mean, they're still very unpopular. People are unhappy right now with the Trump admin, but they still don't like Democrats. And that's actually what I'm hearing from a lot of people back home, you know, is they're not ready to go vote for Democrats in November. But what may happen is they might just stay home. That's.
Look, half of the battle is getting the other side to stay home. But Chris, this whole idea that this is no longer a left versus right fight, it is the establishment sucks. The system is screwing me fight and whoever can channel that, be it Michelle Toya in Minnesota, because there's a lot of people in Minnesota who feel like the Somali immigrants have a lot better than they do. That whoever channels that anger wins and it'll just flip-flop every two years.
I think that's what we've seen. I mean, I would argue that we've seen more change in terms of the presidency changing hands, Congress, House and Senate changing hands in the last decade and a half than we saw for the previous 50 years. I mean, we are in a time where people know what they don't want, which is basically whichever party's currently in control, right? They don't want Washington and New York continuing to get richer because that's what the system has incentivized. Mick, back to you. The idea though of Democrats publicly rebuking their own party in this way, is that what we're going to see if Donald Trump loses from Republicans for 2027 and 2028 of Republicans trying to tear down their own party?
Sure. It makes complete sense. I mean, if I had an approval rating lower than the media or lower than Congress, I'd be running away from those things. I'd be beating up on the media. I'd be beating up on Congress. You know, if you had a system that would allow a third party, we don't, you'd see that. But so what you got to do now is pick a side and then run against it. The only best thing the Republicans have going for them right now is the Democrats are in complete disarray. And that if you talked about that blue wave at your outset, if that doesn't happen and if the Republicans somehow cling to a thin control of the House and the Senate, it won't be because they're any good or Donald Trump did a great job but because the Democrats are even worse.
Well, and they've gone so far to the left. It's funny you say gang up on the media. It was Terico in Texas when I was interviewing him. He didn't like a couple of questions. He started attacking the media and I thought, you know, you sound an awful lot like Donald Trump. Evan, I'll give you the last word. Is there a playbook for somebody who can be either defining themselves or be defined as a total outsider?
Or 2026 more likely? Can anybody can anybody grab that? Can Donald Trump still grab that?
Um, I think at this point I'm honestly not sure. I'm probably I don't know if he has the ability like I wouldn't necessarily bet against him either. He has come back many times, you know, as we've all seen. Um, I think as far as Democrats are concerned, they feel very emboldened right now and high on their own supply almost. You know, all of the inner reflections that happened in the months after the 2024 election have kind of gone away. And so, unfortunately, I don't think they're going to be learning any big lessons.
Forget going away. We got Ro Khanna, who was going to be moved to the center, Mr. Pragmatist, now demanding the release of a Palestinian terrorist. So, um, yeah, the whole move to the middle movement in the Democratic party has, uh, blown up. Evan, Mick, Chris, thank you all. The most obvious answer to this problem is independence. Actual independence running for Congress. Do they exist? Well, one is running for Senate in Idaho. He might win. And he joins us next.
Welcome back. We told you this week that our best rated segments of the show of this year, pardon me, have been with independence for a very simple reason. Americans in 2026 are tired of the establishment. They feel like neither party is getting done what they want done, what they need done for their families. That's why you watch this show because we are willing to call out both sides and independent candidates are uniquely able to tap into that frustration. Independent candidates in Idaho, Nebraska, Montana, and South Dakota are tied or up in some polls as they run for Senate. Look at Todd Achilles from Idaho. An Achilles sponsored poll from the Bullfinch Group finds Republican incumbent Jim Risch trailing Achilles by five points. Trump won Idaho in 2024 by more than 30 points. And Todd Achilles is with us now. Independent candidate for US Senate in Idaho. Welcome. And I would say if ratings were polls, you're doing pretty well because last time we had you on, everybody watched. We heard from a lot of viewers about you. But I want to talk about these polling numbers. I have never seen a candidate sponsored poll that then did not show that candidate up. Fair.
So, okay. Risch has a poll out that says he's up by 30. You really think you are up against a Republican in a state that Trump won by 30?
Well, there's actually some independent polling that has been done in the last week or two that shows me up by five. One of them's got me up by 12. So I mean there's lots of numbers out there. It's hard to poll in a small state like Idaho. So you know we go with the numbers that we've got.
Okay. All right. So that leaves an enormous amount of independent vote out there. People who have not decided. What is the closing argument?
Well, I mean I think when you talk to Idahoans and I've been all over the state, all 44 counties, close to 300 events. It's a big state. You know, Idahoans are just fed up with a political system and an economic system that's not working for them, right? You know, the national Democrats have taken Idaho off their map. They don't even pay attention and everyone.
Well they dropped the candidate dropped out because they thought you had a shot. That's sort of the knock on you, right? That you are from the left coast. You're a liberal. We went back a little bit in your background, born in Oregon, educated in California and Washington. Most of your career in Washington, California, you were in the army. You deployed and then you served as a Democrat in the Idaho State House. How do you convince people you are not just a Democrat in independent clothes?
Well, you know, when you look at the state of Idaho, the longest serving governor, the most popular governor in the state's history was a Democrat. So, we've had this tradition of where there's really not a lot of difference between the parties. And what folks are looking for is just those Idaho values straight down the middle, right? Small government still has capacity to do big things. Let's take care of our schools. Let's make sure our roads are there. And of course,
I say this respectfully. I don't know. I realize you have not spent a lot of time in Washington. As a freshman senator, you don't get a lot of say on that.
Well, I mean, listen, in a closely divided Senate, that independent vote is going to be pretty damn important. And both parties are going to be jockeying for it. So, I think you have committed not to caucus with either side.
100%. I will not caucus with either party.
So, Jim Risch, senator from Idaho, has made it clear he is all in with President Trump, running as a red Republican. Here's one of his ads.
I fought alongside President Trump to pass the biggest tax cuts for working families in American history. No tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on social security. We closed the border and continue to remove dangerous illegal aliens from our country. I'm proud to be endorsed by President Trump.
You go through what he says are his signature issues. No tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on social security, and a closed border. You agree with all those?
Yeah, those are all good policies, but what's not a good policy is an Iran war that has no clear objectives, you know, and no path to get this thing done. And my opponent, Senator Jim Risch, is chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He's the third most powerful person in this country on foreign affairs, and he hasn't held a hearing. He hasn't pushed back. And we see all the ramifications of that, right? Diesel over six bucks in Idaho right now. I'm talking to farmers, spud farmers who are trying to bring in their harvest and they can barely afford to fill up their tractors, right? So those policies are great.
What does a freshman senator do about that?
Well, listen, I mean, number one is just take a look at the War Powers vote yesterday, 49 to 50.
The war powers vote, I say this respectfully, whether you agree or disagree with the war, whether it passes or not is effectively in US law meaningless because the president is not going to sign it.
Well, listen, perhaps, but you had a bipartisan number in the House that thought it was significant, you could have passed it in the Senate. Had it been me in there rather than Jim Risch, it would have the War Powers Resolution would have passed.
You have run an unusual campaign. We learned about you about a month and a half ago or so when we first had you on and you are now being lauded on Twitter. Twitter is not real life, but it is where political junkies hang out. For having the best political ads so far this cycle. Take a listen.
You may be thinking to yourself, how do I not start World War III? Well, I was a tank commander in the Army. I learned the cost that deployment has on our men and women in uniform. We've seen lives lost needlessly while trillions of tax dollars are wasted, prices skyrocket, and regular folks suffer. So, I came up with the simple acronym, don't. It stands for diplomacy, not war. Diplomacy. Not war. Diplomacy, not war. Diplomacy, not war.
That old college professor days coming back.
I know we got a great team and we were just trying to get that really important point across. Have a little bit of fun with it, but you know, we're just involving ourselves.
