There are moments in your life, few and far between, when you find yourself in the same room as someone whose voice once echoed through history and yet whose eyes now reflect the weight of the future. He walked in without a photo op, no handlers, just a tall man with creased brows and the calm of someone who has said, 'I told you so,' more times than he'd like to count. This wasn't Washington. This was Nairobi, a city breathing beneath Morgan Banilia. He had come not to preach but to reckon with all of it. Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States, Nobel laureate, global climate conscience, had sat down with me for a conversation that was less about politics and more about the soul of a planet in peril. So no, this is not your normal interview. This is a story of power and failure and maybe, if we're lucky, redemption. I'm Steve Moaya and this is the Natural Podcast.
There's no reason for US aid when you look at the politicians that have been in there sucking the blood out of it. When you look at all of the fake deals, I mean, look, it's fake. It's fraudulent. It's probably kickbacks when we have $36 trillion in debt. And we're taking care of countries that are very rich and sending aid to countries in some cases that are rich, in some cases they're not rich. But no, it should very much increase.
You could feel the frustration in the room before a single question was asked. Because when the US, the wealthiest polluter on earth, pulls funding from Africa's most vulnerable climate programs, what you're left with is a budget gap and dry riverbeds and failed harvests and empty ball holes and people. People who did everything right still staring down the barrel of a drought they didn't cause. So I asked Al Gore, what does justice look like when the richest countries turn their backs?
Recently, since President Trump came to office, he's scrapped the USAID, which was funding a lot of mitigation measures in Africa, and now so many programs are not running which were to mitigate the impact of climate and the extremities of the weather. So what do you have to say about that?
I'm sorry. As an American, I certainly did not vote for Donald Trump. I wish he had not been elected. We have three and a half years more to get through. It's regrettable that he has cut off some of the assistance that is based on justice and fairness and on our common effort to create a brighter future. I wish there were another election tomorrow to vote him out of office, but we have to wait three and a half years. In the meantime, there is a chance that our subnational leaders, the governors of states, the mayors of cities, the leaders of companies that have integrity, can limit some of the damage Donald Trump appears determined to do. The Congress...
We won't have to wait three and a half years to see a change in the Congress. We have elections for the House of Representatives every two years and for one-third of the Senate every two years. And one and a half years from now, we will have those elections, we call the midterm elections, halfway through the term of a president. And I think there's a real chance that we'll see significant improvements in US policy after the midterm elections one and a half years from now. In the immediate aftermath of World War II, the United States of America became, in the eyes of many, the most powerful nation in the world and the wealthiest nation in the world. There is an old saying that I heard when I was growing up, perhaps you did as well: to whom much is given, much is required. And I think that embodies a principle of justice that the United States should continue to respect. Now, it's been a long time since the end of World War II and there have been many changes. The Chinese economy has grown quite dramatically. The US share of global wealth has declined. We are still the most powerful and wealthiest country, however, and I think we should continue to play the kind of global leadership role that we have played for the last 75 years. That is my view. There should have been a more gradual transition and certainly today there should be a pathway to make a transition that doesn't hurt and harm so many people who have come to depend on USAID. Maybe over a longer period of time other nations could find ways to fill that gap. But to do it suddenly is cruel. It's cruel. And I do not support it. And I'm sorry that he has made these decisions.
They meet every year, these men and women, in tailored suits and country pins, at grand hotels in cities with airports big enough to land the future. They call it COP, Conference of Parties. But increasingly it feels like a masquerade because outside the press rooms and breakfast buffets, the very companies choking the planet are busy writing the script. Gore doesn't hide his disdain for it.
I have quite loudly advocated for serious reforms in the COP process even before Dubai and Baku, but certainly in Dubai at COP 28 and in Baku last year at COP 29. I vociferously argued we have to reform this process. It has been, to an unhealthy degree, captured by the fossil fuel polluters. The very fact that the CEO of one of the biggest and dirtiest oil companies on the planet was installed as the head of COP 28 is ridiculous and absurd. The fact that the number of fossil fuel company delegates outnumber the combined delegations of the 10 nations that are most harmed by the climate crisis is absurd and unjust.
Absurd, yes, but also deeply revealing. Because if the fireman hands the matchbox to an arsonist, you have to ask who are we really protecting? There is a danger that creeps in through silence. It doesn't kick down doors, it signs them shut with lobbyist ink. So I asked him, why is progress on climate so impossibly slow? And his answer cut deeper than emissions charts or pledges broken, because the real problem, he said, isn't carbon, it is capture.
We need reforms in the process. Now, the fossil fuel industry and the petrostates, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, you know, the others, they have captured control of the process to a very unhealthy degree. That needs to be changed. I've advocated for specific reforms. We should not require unanimity in order to adopt policies. That's one of the reasons why it took 28 COPs before they could even mention the principal cause of the crisis, fossil fuels. And then in COP 28, they finally mentioned fossil fuels. And then in COP 29, they got rid of it. Again, it's frustrating to all of us, all of us, I include myself in the community of activists who have been trying to mobilize solutions for this crisis.
In other words, the planet isn't dying because we don't know what to do. It's dying because the people in charge know and choose not to.
If you want to know who carries the weight of the climate crisis, don't look to the podium. Look to the kitchen, the water point, the field. Look to the women who nurse hungry children through failed rains, who walk further for less water, who plant food in soil that barely remembers what rain feels like. I asked Al Gore about this imbalance.
I think the evidence supports the view that women are on average more affected by the climate crisis than men. Perhaps because of their typically larger role in caring for young children. It's not always the case, but on average that is the case. And I think that may be part of it. And of course, in many countries, including my own, there is a history of discrimination against women. The recent progress has been very, very inspiring to people who have paid attention to it and I think it is changing, but still women are discriminated against. It's a sign that we still have work to do on eliminating discrimination.
Then almost like remembering a melody, he mentioned a name, a name that means something sacred in this country called Kenya.
I will say, however, that one of the most inspiring and effective leaders I have ever met on climate in my life was the late Wangari Maathai from Kenya. She inspired me. I was privileged to become a close friend. She visited my home in Tennessee in the US. Her daughter Wanjira is here today, of course, and continues her mother's tradition of leadership. So I think it very much depends on the individual women involved and the communities involved. But I don't disagree that women still face on average a burden of discrimination and should be allowed to play as big a role in shaping climate policy as they wish.
