How about them? How about them Giants? How about them Giants? What's happening, people? Yes, welcome to another episode of Giants Rush, where we talk Giants football, yep, 52 weeks of the year. Today, special day, of course, we got Carl Banks in the building, which is like, uh, it's pretty cool. We haven't had Carl on for, I don't know, got to be like three years, right? So we got Carl on. I know you guys are piling in the room, I see you guys loading up. Um, I'm gonna bring the guys on. Let's bring on Spartan Mike, Zack. This is Spartan Mike.
What's up, Craig? What's going on? It's an honor tonight because I won't be the only Spartan on the podcast for the first time in many years. Remember, I'm Spartan by default.
You have invested, yeah, that's true. You have, you have, uh, paid your way, that's for sure.
My daughter is at the university, so I am by default a Spartan. All right, for everybody that's piling in the room, give them a quick turnaround, show them the jersey front and back. That's right. So during COVID, I had a little COVID bonus money, and my favorite player was Carl Banks, so I had to go with my Michigan State Spartans and my New York Giants. So it's a half Giants, half Spartans Carl Banks jersey. Uh, I wore it a couple weeks ago to the Giants-Bucs game, didn't bring us any luck.
But actually wore it on camera, I believe, didn't bring us any luck. Your, uh, your jersey, I will say that we need more than luck, Craig. We need more than luck. All right, uh, uh, Zach, bring in, uh, bring in Sean, and here we go. Dude, this is like Carl Banks is in the building. You get to hang out with Carl Banks, and Brit, you're pretty excited about that one.
You cannot, you can't know just how excited I am. Like watching this guy play his entire career, getting to have him on the show and talk with him.
Absolutely, man. So, ladies and gentlemen, let me give you this a quick rundown: two-time Super Bowl champ, all-80s decade team, Pro Bowler, first-round pick in 1984, Giants Ring of Honor. My man has seen a lot, for the record, right? And some of you folks out there are not very nice to Carl. He's just very, he takes it, takes it in stride. I don't know how he does it, roll up on you cats sometimes, uh, with some of the stuff you guys say to him, but, uh, there it is. There's the man. Carl, what's up?
What's going on, man? How are you doing? Thanks for having me.
Yeah, man, a long time to make it. I'm glad you came back to hang out with us.
Thanks for having me, man. Pleasure to be here.
Well, pleasure to have you, Carl. Look, there's, so I got like 60 people already in the chat blowing it, blowing it up. Everybody just, I'll get, I'll get there, give me a sec. Um, all right, Carl, tons to talk about, limited time. How the, and you know, we've known each other for a while. Um, how the heck did we get here, right? I mean, like, I actually had to go back out of your eight years on the Giants, you once, you know, you were 500 or above, winning season six of eight years. We're on 10 of 12 years. How did we, how do we get here? Because Carl, when the season started, it felt good. Yeah, Hard Knocks, Dexter leading in sacks, and then somewhere it went off the rails. What, like, what happened?
Well, I think, um, talent always makes a difference in the NFL. Um, they had injuries, but they are just not, they're not a good tackling team. It's an offense, in my opinion, uh, that doesn't value possessions consistently enough. Um, and I think that's, that's where they are, because, you know, um, you know, people will say that the Giants don't have talent. They have enough talent to be a middle-of-the-road team that could be a few, few pieces away from being a good, a competitive team. Like, we're not, we're not talking Super Bowl, but, you know, the, the difference between the good teams and the bad teams, I'm not talking about those that are in contention for Super Bowls, right? I'm talking about those good teams, those mid-level teams, right? Yep. Is the little things, right? You'll see a team like Minnesota, people love them, but they're just doing the little things right now. They'll get against some teams that are just much better than them, and they'll lose those games, right? But they are the best of the mid teams because they do all the little things right. And that's, you know, um, you can name three good players on their team, maybe four by name. Now, they have more than four good players, but when you talk about those names, it's, yeah, about three or four guys, right? And so for the Giants, they don't do the little things well enough, and they're not good enough to overcome them, as we can see. Um, you know, and obviously the quarterback situation, uh, didn't get any better. Uh, um, I don't think he distinguished himself, uh, at all in terms of his decision-making. I mean, we can call it like it is, and, you know, I've, I've always been supportive of him, and I, I still believe he has an NFL skill set, and I believe in that. But, um, as I've said all along, it's up to him. It's always been up to him to go out and prove it. So, um, it didn't get done.
What, what happened though? Like last year, I don't know, McFadden or Banks, they looked great. Like they had such a productive year last year. Bowen comes in. You said something last week, I wrote it down because it was so good. I gotta give, I mean, like, not that you need my, uh, my acknowledgement, but I mean, it was really cool. You said protect the things you're weak at. And each week and every week, I keep saying like, where's the adjustment? Like McFadden had 100-plus tackles. Oh, Carl, he was focal point of the defense outside of Dex, because Dex is still amazing, right? Probably play on one arm. But what happened? Like, why, why did he, was no adjustments?
Well, yeah, that's the biggest, that's the most perplexing thing to me. And I don't, I don't sit in those meetings, and I don't have those type of conversations with Shane Bowen, but I've played enough football at a very high level. I've learned from the best in the business, and so I can give you my assessment of, of what's going on. It's a system that is being run, and it's, I'm not crapping on, on Shane Bowen, but it's not being run very well. Because if you're eight weeks in running with the same running plays, there are not even many adjustments. They just hit them with outside run, outside zone, inside zone, and everybody has success. That tells me whatever you're talking about in meetings, there's no adjustment to that. And I paid really close attention in the Dallas game, and I said, I can guarantee you they don't go over what we used to call run fits, right? Where you do it in the walkthrough, or you can do it full speed. It's just where you fit on a blocker on a particular play. Um, I saw McFadden run up in there and just blow a lineman up, and the lineman just grabs him, running back runs right by him. Run fits are when you go and you make contact, you have to know where you can be blocked to the left or to the right, um, so that you can fall back in a play. But you can't render yourself, um, useless. And so I, I see a lot of that. I just see, you know, just lacking in details. And again, this is not about their effort. Um, they play hard. I think they have good intentions, but they just, you know, just when you see the same thing over and over again, that just tells me they don't adjust. Because maybe he's worried if they make the adjustment that something else is going to happen. Well, I, I let something else happen first. Stop, right? I need to stop what's happening now. And if they figure it out, like, that's what we did in, um, Super Bowl 25. We had two down linemen. If they, if they'd have figured out they needed to run the ball early in the game, we had no solution for it. But they didn't. So we went, we went to stop the things that they were good at, the things that they could hurt us at. And so I don't see that. I don't see that adjustment. And it's perplexing that you have enough players to get some things done to stop those plays, and it just seems like they, you know, for whatever reason, are guarding against something else happening when they can't stop the two or three plays that's hurting them.
Yeah, they're worried about B before they're worried about A. I get it, because, like, I can't, I can't for the life of me figure out two linebackers that were so great at tackling last year. I think it's the first duo in a decade that had two guys over 105 tackles per, right? And now they can't hit the side of a barn with a bazooka. Like, I mean, I mean, yeah, they're just guys out there, uh, rushing. It's like they're, they're guys, they're just a bunch of guys that run around, and, you know, Bobby makes a play or two just instinctively. But it's like you would think that with a guy like Bobby Okereke, who is basically your second-best player on defense outside of Dexter, that you'd find ways to make sure he can be his best self, right? Um, but it just doesn't seem like that's happening. Um, and then Michael McFadden, the same thing. That, that linebacker last year was kind of the, kind of the strength of the defense. You know, they were very active. Even though Micah missed his share of tackles earlier in the year, he was where the ball was. Right now, you can't find him where the ball is, and you actually can't find anybody where the ball is because they're all blocked, and, you know, it's just a highway running through the defense. But you would think that some of the things that they did well, that it would be incorporated into whatever this scheme is that they're running. Um, then, you know, you have Deontay Banks, who is a shell of what he finished the season with last year. And, you know, it's, it's almost like he's developed bad habits and just doesn't seem to be motivated. Um, because when you have a guy like Terry McLaurin that goes on his postgame interview and said that they were looking at Deontay Banks on tape and we knew that he would, you know, be lazy on taking away certain things, so I knew I could jab-step him. And I mean, like, if that's not a call to action there for you to step up your game, I don't know what it is. But, um, he's a, he's a capable kid. I thought he was moving in the right direction at the end of last year, and this year, I don't know. Again, I don't know if it's the system they're running or, or what's happening, but it's, it's just not a good scenario for this Giants team. Because again, the, the difference is in the details with these mid-level teams. Those that want to go to the next level, they add more talent. But until they do, they know how to hold the rope or tread water and win the games that are winnable for them. And then when you get outmatched, you know, and you're punching above your weight class, everybody understands that. But you can rack up seven, eight, nine wins in a season with, with the, um, the schedules the way they are, just by doing the little things right, fundamentally sound football.
Have they given up on tackling, though? Like, nobody, look, we just played a 20-second video with you tackling the crap out of everybody. Every shot is right in the hit zone, you know, right at the thigh level. You're wrapping up. These guys have, and, and I'm not picking on them, they're better than me and that I'll ever can imagine being. They have more athletic ability in one finger. But for the love of God, why don't they hit anybody? Everything's up top, and they wind.
Well, again, it just depends on what the emphasis is. Again, I don't sit in those meetings. Yeah, my bad. You know, I had some conversations with Micah last year, and after those conversations, he became a better tackler because I just kind of gave him a few tips on how to finish a tackle. Because if you're good enough to get to a play, yeah, you should be good enough to get them down. You just, it's basically taking that one extra step. Can you? No, he's going to be okay. Um, but yeah, I, I think, you know, the thing is, people say, well, you know, they don't have time to practice it. The reality is, 32 teams practice by the same rules. Yeah. And some teams are better at it than others, right? And they don't have any secret to how they do it. They have to practice along the same guidelines, um, as everyone else. So, um, tackling is a want-to thing in a, in a, to a large degree. Um, but it's also, you know, you got to talk to players, and if they don't know how to tackle, um, talk to them about what it, how to make a complete tackle, not just making contact, right? Um, and, you know, again, I, I don't know what they're teaching in the classroom, but I know what I see. Um, and I know that I never played on a team that missed tackles against some really, really good running backs. And these guys are, every, every running back they play against has success. Um, and that shouldn't happen.
In the, uh, in the chat, Chris wants to know why Isaiah Simmons doesn't get, you know, enough snaps. Any thought process there? He got, yeah.
I have, I have my theories. I have my theories. Um, Isaiah's a, he's a, he's a very gifted athlete. Um, I don't think Isaiah plays under control, the control that he should. Um, he's always in the right place because he's fast. Um, but I, I think, you know, he needs to slow his pace. And I, I guarantee you they're not saying this about him, but this is what I see. Uh, he just needs to slow his brain down a little bit because his body can get wherever he needs to get like that, right? So he just has to slow his thinking down so he can see everything that he's supposed to see, and then he'll make great decisions on the field. But I, I agree, he should be out there more. There's a lot of things you can do with him. Uh, yeah.
I wish it was like you were saying, like the talent, there is talent there. Like that's, yeah.
I mean, again, people will say in a losing season, I get it. Um, people will look at the roster and say they're crap, but they have good talent, enough talent to win football games if they do the little things right. Again, as they say, more games are lost than won in the NFL. And when you look at all these one-score games that the Giants are losing, um, and the other teams are doing just enough to win, uh, when you see the amount of, uh, plays that are missed by the quarterback, open guys running open, um, that's a good segue. Those are the things that cause you to lose games, you know, because they don't, because when you have those plays available to you, the other teams are smart enough not to let that play come back again, right? So, yeah, when you have those types and you go to the sideline and you correct it with your guys, you're not going to get the opportunity again. They're not going to give you that look. And so you have to be, you know, um, prepared enough to make great decisions, and you've got to be in the moment. And that's, you know, again, what I was, I've been harping on this for a long time. Like, the Giants' offense just doesn't value possessions, or when you hit a big play, there's an illegal man downfield, or there's illegal shift, or, you know, illegal formation. You can't have that. Like, when you're this type of team, the little things count. Every possession count. And, um, when you don't have a defense that's going to get you back out there right away, um, when you control time of possession, which the Giants are very good at offensively, um, controlling the football sometimes, but they come up empty, right? Just because, right, when they get at the doorstep, a field goal or touchdown, a turnover happens, a sack happens, just something weird. And so this is what's, what's hurting the team.
Well, I'm going to segue to some offensive stuff because, okay, you know, you, you brought up the, you know, the, the quarterback a little bit, and we all know that a good QB can erase a lot of mistakes on a mediocre team. So, Sean, I know you had an offensive question. Jump in.
Yeah, so, you know, Kurt Warner talked about it, guys are open, right? And it's, other guys have talked about it as well. So at this point, is it all about getting the quarterback, or do the Giants need to win some games to keep that locker room together?
Look, they're all in it together anyway right now. It's not one guy that says, well, I'm doing my part and the rest of you guys suck and the, the, um, locker room is divided. No, they're not a quarterback away. They are little things away that a quarterback can really take them over the top if they can do the little things. They got to help whoever is coming to help them, right? And I say that even in the case of Malik Nabers, help him help you. He's got some things he's got to work on, but help him help you, right? So get a drive going so that teams don't have to double him for an entire four plays before you punt, right? One first down and then, you know, the next series you're punting. You can't do that. You've got to give this kid a chance. So a good quarterback will help you. Good play calling, which I think Brian Daboll is a good play caller, um, will get guys open. You just need a guy who can make the right decisions. But in doing so, you can't jump off sides, you can't be downfield, you can't have illegal motion. Um, and they're just not good enough to overcome that. Even with a good quarterback, they won't be good enough to overcome that.
So then the big question is, and you might not be able to answer, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on, look, we want to win some games, right? Free agents come here to play when you win games. Uh, good momentum in the locker room, right? Everybody's having some fun when you win games. Does this team need to move into the mindset of a, a bridge quarterback where we've seen what we saw what Kerry Collins did to Kurt Warner to Eli? Do we need that guy, or is this a, or is in your estimation, is it draft the rookie and throw him in there and let them, and let them play?
Well, you're going to have, um, a real evaluation of, of these kids coming out. I think it's probably two, maybe three quarterbacks coming out. Um, Shedeur Sanders, Ward, and, um, the kid, uh, Lane Kiffin's kid, uh, down in Mississippi State, Dart, Jackson Dart. So two of those three quarterbacks have, have been coached and tutored by NFL coaches, offensive coordinators. So they kind of understand and see what the NFL, uh, system is. They know how to run it. I don't think it'll be too big for those kids. Um, I don't know enough about Ward, to be honest with you. I don't know enough about any of these kids coming out because I don't do that, that work like some of the other people do. But I can tell you they've been in systems, two of those three kids have been in NFL systems, and they understand how to operate as a, as a pro quarterback. So, and then, um, it has to be apples and apples too, right? You got to, you got to have some ability, even though you can operate a pro offense. Yeah. If you don't have the ability, you're not worth the, the first-round pick. So, or a top pick where the Giants will be picking some, probably somewhere in the top three to four. Um, but, you know, a bridge quarterback, they probably will still have one on the roster. It's, it's important to have that even if you have a pro because it's a win-now situation. Um, it's, it's a win-now this, the rest of this season and the following season. No matter who you have as your coach, they got to win. They've got to move this team forward.
Yeah, because we, we've been talking about it, you know, every single week that there's guys out there, like, just, just came out today, Kirk Cousins throws four interceptions. All of a sudden, Atlanta wants to move on from him. Like, he got a $69 million cap hit. The only way Kirk Cousins is going anywhere is if they trade him, right? Right. And you got, you got a young guy on the bench who's a stud from Washington, Penix, right? Atlanta's got to do something. Like, you know, hey, let Cousins come in, draft Ward, and let Cousins groom Ward or Dart or, or Sanders. And Sanders is probably the most polished out of all of them. But, um, you know, uh, Carl, we've talked about, like, just how many young kids don't get under center nowadays, and they come to the NFL and they're not ready to get under center. They don't run play action. They don't have good footwork, right? Right.
Well, see, the problem with that is, um, we're in this microwave mindset where the guys are built up so, so larger than life by the, the draft experts that will tell you that these guys are ready to play day one, which they're not. And they just, there's just no developmental, um, time for it. But, like, even the kid in Carolina now is starting to feel better about himself. Um, Young, yeah. Um, the kid in New England feeling a little better about himself because he's sat a little bit and watched things, and then they're putting him in there. But, like, the growth cycle for a quarterback now, it's, it's almost like feast or famine. If the kid doesn't light it up right away, everybody thinks he's a bust, and it's, that's just not the case. Um, and again, you have to have good things, good, good players around a quarterback too. You've got to put together a competent offensive line. I mean, listen, you see what Kansas City's doing. They're, you know, pulling a rabbit out of their hat every single game to get by, and that's because they can't protect their quarterback with all the weapons they have. Uh, Mahomes is not having, you know, the typical Mahomes type of year, but they're figuring out how to win because they can do the little things right. Yeah. Um, that gets them by these types of games, but they'll run into a team that's equally as good and, and better at protecting the quarterback, and they'll probably lose this year.
They have, uh, Spags holding them down out there right now. Yeah, yeah. Uh, Spartan, you had something. Go ahead, jump in.
Yeah, Carl, uh, I have a question a little bit specific to the, the GM situation with, uh, Joe Schoen. You know, I know if anybody from the outside looking in and watches Hard Knocks, you know, a lot of them might criticize Schoen. See the track record of the Giants over three years. You start with the winning record, and it becomes a six-and-eleven season, and now it's a two-win season. At the same time, we're putting that up against the fact that they're having some bright spots. For example, this, this past rookie class has done an outstanding job. Sure. And, you know, in any world, you know, a lot of jobs, if you start off, you know, not so strong, but you start showing improvement, you know, you elongate your tenure. And I want to be very mindful as to how I ask this question. I understand. I don't want to put you on a spot where you have to give predictions, but this is more so from how Giants ownership or any NFL ownership might look at this. But, you know, does, does Schoen get another swing at drafting or going for quarterbacks or getting an elongated process with the New York Giants?
