This is the original heated rivalry, but 100% less [__]. Actually, 200%.
Yeah, boner killer. Um, so caption this photo: gay man in his 60s who never found love or family of his own goes to Romania to adopt 8-year-old boy.
I'm Kara Swisher.
And welcome to the first Resist and Unsubscribe live event at the Pantages Theater in Minneapolis.
Whoa, man.
You know, you guys are in the lead right now. We're going to try to... We had a pivot tour last year. We're doing it again this fall and we have to kill at least two or three cities, but I think you just killed one. I'm not sure. I feel bad for Boston right now. Anyway, uh, uh, thank you for showing up tonight and helping us support the Immigrant Law Center of Minnesota. We're recording tonight's show and we'll run it on the Pivot podcast audio feed and on our YouTube channel. We're going to do a lot tonight. We'll talk about some headlines just like we do on a Pivot show and Scott will give us an update. If you've never seen Scott present, it's an amazing thing. That's how I met him and ended up in this relationship. Um, he was very seductive on the presentation situation. Um, but he's going to give us an update on the massive impact of Resist and Unsubscribe. People have questions and Scott's going to answer them and how much it's made. It really has. And I'm glad to be here to support it for him. Um, but first we have a special guest we're going to chat with tonight. We always have special guests you don't know about. Please give a round of applause to Governor Tim Walz.
I love him.
Wow. Wow. Maybe you should tell Klobuchar you changed your mind.
Well, I... No, this is what happens when you don't run, I guess. I don't know.
Oh, suddenly you're popular.
Okay. All right. Um, I think we're going to start. We're going to ask him a bunch of questions. We've done this on all the tours that we've had and we've had a great time and we had lots of governors and various things. But first things first, what was your immediate reaction to Kristi Noem's, um, departure?
Well, I was trying to act all serious and say, you know, I'm not a petty person. And then I checked myself and I said, in this case, I'm petty as hell. So, so it was... And I was saying this, that I knew Kristi Noem as a member of Congress, and when they get in the orbit of Donald Trump, because I think you would have considered us friends at one time. We authored some legislation around water quality and things like that, and then all of a sudden it turns into this. And, um, but I think for me, uh, what happened here in Minneapolis was so far beyond the pale that the sense of anger I had towards her, that whatever happens isn't enough. Um, that's kind of the feeling I have, whatever she has coming yet. Um, so with justice, but...
You said last week that Secretary Noem should probably get used to spending more time in Minnesota because we've got to get accountability. How are you planning on getting that?
Well, look, there's... and I would make my pitch to the US Congress. Um, and especially with her, I guess, replacement in Markwayne, who I know too. Um, one name. We're all getting that. Um, he's having a problem that the border between names. Get it? Well, they can't, uh, that's... they can't, um, they can't fund these people and they can't give them without putting guardrails back around. And I've been... I think Minnesotans are demanding before they do anything confirming someone else, we need to make sure they give us the investigations we need here, bringing those people back and holding accountability. Um, the both physical and moral injury that's happened to this state demands that justice be carried out. So look, whether it's, you know, whether it's county attorney with Mary Moriarty or Keith Ellison, both have talked about it. Both are incredibly talented and both of them will get justice. And, um, it's of course with Renee and Alex, but this... people in Minnesota know there are literally hundreds if not thousands of things that were done to Minnesotans both physically, mentally, economically. Somebody has to pay. Somebody has to pay a price. So...
Do you imagine trials with her? I mean, she will say she was acting at Stephen Miller's best or...
Well, it's out of my wheelhouse not being an attorney, but, um, we all know in history saying you followed orders didn't get you out of anything. Just following orders didn't get you out of anything. And somebody issued those orders and she was more than happy to tell us she was in charge as she rode her horse around telling us that. So, so yes, I think, you know, when you're in elected office and you can make mistakes or whatever, but this was not mistakes. This was a blatant violation of human constitutional rights of Minnesotans and she spoke to that. And I was in Congress last week too and mine went a little better, I think, than hers went. Yeah. But she claimed that everyone knew on this. But I will say this, that yes, I think that we need to find out, there certainly needs to be investigations and if those lead to indictments, trials and imprisonment for the people who did these crimes, that needs to happen. But, um...
But I would just leave with this: it all goes back to the top. This is Donald Trump's... started this. Donald Trump did this. So...
Let me ask one question, then Scott will have one. Is, um, they're trying to equate her... what they're calling... the right, I've noticed, is saying the fraud around the ridiculous commercials, the $200 million given to a friend of hers in some fashion, or Karoline Leavitt's, um... what they're trying to equate it to what happened here, fraud that happened here, like if we go for fraud there, we got to go for fraud with Kristi.
There's a big difference between fraud and corruption. Um, people stole from the people of Minnesota and those people are in jail. We'll continue to do that. Uh, ironically, the amount that we know with the Feeding Our Future scandal is exactly what she spent on the riding the horse scandal or whatever it was. But this goes a lot deeper where people in government directing money towards their clients. These were criminals that stole from Minnesota and Minnesotans caught them and put them in jail. So, it was on the pretense of this and there's folks that need to be accountable. I said to all the Minnesotans over the next 10 months, my job is to make sure, again, I am not going to apologize that Minnesota has incredible social service programs that lift people up, feed hungry kids, put people in. I will tell you it is my responsibility to make sure those programs are secure as possible and that's what we're doing. So they're not interested in any of that. And this... that's... if they were, they'd go to Louisiana, but that's another issue. Yeah. Straight up corruption of people taking money and, you know, they... the false sense of... they come here, they... you know, right-wing social media here in Minnesota, there are folks that invited those people here. There are people here in elected office who will not condemn what happened to Alex and Renee or Liam or anyone else and their accountability will come in November, but there still needs to be other avenues to make sure that justice is served. Scott.
If a mayor calls you and says, 'We have word or suspicion that ICE is about to have an equivalent presence to what happened in Minneapolis,' what advice would you have specifically? What do you think you got right? And given, you know, you were in sort of uncharted territories, what did you get wrong? What would you do more of? What would you do less of if you were advising a mayor about to face... Just to be clear, governor, excuse me.
The what happened, right, and why they left was because of the people on the streets. It wasn't the elected officials. They left because of that and parent-teacher organizations that turned into food banks and, you know, soccer and basketball car pools that turned into protecting children and parents surrounding schools. Um, what I would tell them, and I don't know if you can... you can't replicate it immediately, but that old adage that all politics and all action is local. Minnesotans take that to local, to your house and the house next to you and the house next to you. So my take is make sure as elected leaders that you're watching where the organic leadership is coming from. Make sure you're not doing anything to interfere with that. And we were getting a lot of feedback from folks on the streets and to be prepared and make sure that you are ready to make these decisions that need to be made without any coordination. Like everybody in this room knows and everybody knows we always work with the federal government and the FBI. Sex trafficking, you know, drug trafficking, things like that. They came in here and tried to make the case that we don't cooperate with them. And I'm telling you this, at the end of the day, when Donald Trump and Tom Homan stand up and say, 'Well, you know, Minnesota finally cooperated, that's why we're leaving,' we didn't change one damn thing we were doing before because our job is not immigration reform. We are not going to spend our resources going after people who are trying to follow the path towards citizenship and get here. So, my advice to them is stay in your lane. There's nothing you're going to do... like all of a sudden we would say, 'Oh, sure, we're going to start giving you names' or something like that. They... I... the thought of that, these states that are saying... because when the president called me, he said, 'Well, we didn't have this problem in New Orleans or, you know, somewhere else.' And I said... I said, 'Well, I said you didn't shoot people in the face in those states. You didn't do things.' And I said... and he asked, 'What's wrong with the people of Minnesota?' And this was on the call. I said, 'Not one damn thing is wrong with the people in Minnesota.' So it's being organized. It's being ready as elected officials. And I think what we learned in Minnesota, the coordination between different levels of government, because I think it was within a matter of minutes of Renee's murder that Mayor Frey called right away and things were starting to be put in place. But just to be very clear, uh, state and local governments were following the leads of the organic leadership on the streets and watching what did that. And that's the advice I would give. So that's what I'd give.
So it's one of the most important parts of this and I think most of the country got a lot of inspiration from it. Um, but Minnesota and the cooperation with the federal government didn't seem at that point cooperative, at least with Greg Abbott. May he whatever. I know it's an easy one. He'll be on Dancing with the Nazis someday. Um, but, um, and with Kash Patel, as it turns out, if you'd give him a Surly beer, he would have been fine.
Like a freshman in college. That's how he chugs. Like you're like, 'Oh, you're a bad chugger.'
What adult goes into a locker room that you had nothing to do with and acts like it had to do with adults?
You know, here's my take on this, for what it's... I was telling them backstage. I said, 'Well, we got to be afraid.' I said, I don't care. I can say whatever I want right now. We'll get to that. So, my thing is, here's something we have to bring back. Shame has to be something. These people don't feel shame. You have to be ashamed of yourself.
I think the problem is you're dealing with people who are shameless. And I say that about the tech people. Uh, so if they don't have shame, they are shameless. So, Minnesota residents, as you just noted, and activist groups say that arrests are reportedly still happening every day, particularly in the suburbs. Talk about what local authorities are doing about it. And then White House border czar Tom Homan promised Minnesota would be down to 150 ICE agents by last week. Has he kept that promise?
No. No, I don't believe so. Um, and this is the other thing. It's very difficult for us to confirm that. Um, and one of the things is, again, whether there is 650 here or not, the threat of them being here and the mental stress that puts on especially our immigrant community. Um, it doesn't really matter whether they're here or not. It's interfering with their life. It's causing trauma. It's doing all of the same damage. And so I... No, I don't believe they probably have. They... Look, all of us here know she did not get fired because of what happened here. She got fired because of those ads. And they left Minneapolis not because they thought they did something wrong. They left because it became politically damaging to them. I believe if they get an opportunity again, they will do the same thing somewhere else. And that's why Minnesotans... I tell you this, I was in Idaho last night for the Idaho Democratic Party. By the way, 1,200 people, largest it's ever been, 800 waiting to get in. Idaho, every single one of their... they're outnumbered 102 to 13 in their legislature, the Democrats are, but they have candidates in every single district. But when we got to town, the Minnesota flag was unfurled on buildings as a sign of resistance. So...
So I want to talk about the Democratic Party on a more meta level. You went from almost being vice president to facing impeachment articles in your home state. And a lot of people...
And a lot of people would argue that as bad as the Republican Party is, what makes a lot of progressives angry is that Democrats don't seem to, quite frankly, have their act together. That, um, we want to join a resistance, but quite frankly, we want to join a more competent, aggressive resistance. As someone who was on the front lines, right, you're at the helm of the bobsled. What observations and what advice would you offer to Democratic leaders around building a resistance that people are just, quite frankly, more excited to join and have a more full-throated response to being a part of?
No, I agree. Well, look, I've said it here and I might be the wrong person to say this because I, you know, I accept my responsibility because we would not be in this crap show if we had won. But what I think the Democratic Party is, is one, we're prisoners to kind of norms, mores that are out there. We're prisoners to our institutions. And I will give you this, and the tech folks drive me as crazy as they do you. The one thing they possess, and I will tell you I don't do this, I'm more of a rule follower, this idea of totally breaking something. Now I would usually think if you break it, you have a better plan to go forward. Um, Democrats tend to be, you know, we got to listen to the system. We have to send a strongly worded letter. Um, people are sick of strongly worded letters. And I made this case, I made this case in 22. I said, if we're going to ask Minnesotans to vote for us and give us a trifecta, and this was with Melissa Hortman and Carrie Dick and the leadership there. I said there, yes. And those two women knew it. The Democratic Party, Scott, I think in the past has been people want to see a direct connection to what they voted for and what they've worked for, to an improvement in their life and the things they asked for. And I remember after that legislative session in 23 where we did paid family and medical leave, fed our kids, you know, did child tax credit 2040, all that whole list of things, new flag, all of those things. Um, I had a young staffer who worked on my re-election campaign on that and we did cannabis and everything and he looks at me and he said, 'Well, this wasn't that hard. We got all this stuff done.' And I'm like, 'God dang, we've been at this for 20 years.' But it was a real telling moment on this is if you want to get people excited, you want to have them believe, then actually do something. And here's what I say. I'm not going to give Donald Trump credit for anything, but what I have learned from what they did, if they can break every institution to try and go into people's houses or to kill people on the streets or go into wars that are illegal, then we should be able to break all the norms to give universal healthcare, break them off to protect things that we want. Um...
So who do you imagine best represents that right now in the Democratic Party?
I think right at this point, and I think it's healthy, I think we should all agree, we need as broad as possible as we go past the... as broad as possible people out there as we move to 28. I don't know if that person's out there yet, but what I started last January, I was doing town halls in West Virginia and Ohio where I was saying, by the way, everybody's telling you, you know, the road to totalitarianism, I said, is littered with people telling you you're overreacting. And I said, 'We're not overreacting.' I was encouraging everybody to enter the fray and fill their lane because I find great joy every day I read Gavin Newsom's stuff that he's doing. There's joy in hitting him at that. There's JB Pritzker out there. I see people like Gretchen Whitmer. There's a lot of people out there. I don't know who's doing it, but here's what I learned. Donald Trump can suck up so much oxygen. There isn't one single person that is kind of the counterweight to that. But what we saw in Minneapolis is strength in numbers, strength in unity, and I want a bunch of folks out there.
Right. We just have two more questions for you. What does that mean for your political future?
Well, I have 10 months to continue to build what we've done in Minnesota. Month 11. So, yeah. Um, I think I still have a voice to go out there and make the case to get young people involved again, to get... like in Idaho, that it's pretty encouraging to be in there with 1,200 people in Idaho who are sick as hell of what's going on and they were there to, you know, what can we do about it? How do we get organized? So, I think for me, taking that message, getting out there. I want to get out on the road after this and do some more and to help. And my goal is just to make sure, and Scott, your point was there is not only to elect a Democrat. I want to make sure that that person we elect, we hold them accountable to passing the things we know we need to get done. How long have we fought on this healthcare thing? We all know, you know, we give them the statistics. We spend more than any other country. The days of arguing that are over. Whoever wins in 28, in early 29, better fix the healthcare system in a way for people, better strengthen the middle class. I want to be part of that.
Are you interested in that? Would New Hampshire be a place you might stop? Are you interested in running? I just interviewed Gavin and he lied.
No, I am not, but I am interested in being a part of it and, um, in the ambassadorship to the Bahamas if that's available. So...
All right. I have one last question. Herschel Walker, by the way, is the ambassador to the Bahamas. Just so you know. So, the last question is the Republicans using the scandal to... It was partially one of the reasons you left, I think, or maybe it was, and you can correct me, but Republicans say the scandal proves Minnesota's social safety net is broken and Democrats say it proves we need better oversight, not fewer programs. What has concretely changed since these stories broke?
And every state. They broke five years ago and folks were on it. And I remind people that we told the Department of Agriculture and they didn't do anything. But I'll own this. What's changed is we have pre-approvals. We have things in place. But again, as you see this, they're not interested in stopping the fraud. They're interested in taking away meals from kids. They're interested in taking away Medicaid from kids. And this is why this is not a victimless crime. And it's why I'm so angry about this because it weakens people's trust in the institutions that are absolutely needed. What I would assure them is there's numerous things. I will fix this. They won't. They've got corruption. But what I can tell you, um, we are not going to move one inch. We have the most generous social service programs and there's a reason that we rank at the top on our category. So my job is to clean those programs up, make them more secure, but, um, I totally reject where they're at. And to be lectured by people who spend a quarter billion on horses, to be lectured by the crypto boys with Don Jr. or whatever, to watch the Trump family make money. And I remind people on this, I was the guy who authored the members of Congress shouldn't be able to trade stocks or own stocks. And I thought it was... I'll just leave you with this, that difference between fraud and corruption. I really thought it was a flex when the Wall Street Journal did a big breaking story when I got onto the ticket and said, 'We believe in our analysis that Tim Walz is the poorest person to ever run for vice president.' Well, you didn't elect me to get rich. You elected me to do the job. And so I'm not going to... I'll take my beating, but we're not going to do it.
Last question. You've had a rough year or you've had a stressful year. What advice would you have for young people who have this incredible ascent in their professional life, which you have had, and then you face disappointment and you face a tremendous amount of stress? I wish we were talking backstage and I said incorrectly, I always feel like I know what to do, which is dangerous. And I remember when I saw the situation here, I remember trying to put myself in the shoes of a government leader. I just would have been so flat-footed. I just wouldn't have known what to do. I can't imagine the stress and quite frankly the disappointment you have likely registered personally the last 12 months. How do you deal with that? What is your own process for managing stress and disappointment? And what advice would you have for young people who have mostly just known success and then face real stress and disappointment?
By the way, you do look good.
Have you considered running for governor of California?
Yeah, there you go. Um, no. Look, I approached this job. I was 40, a school teacher in Mankato. I had no political experience, no money, and no connections. I approached it as an opportunity that if I had a skill set that could help. And it's the same way I told the vice president. I said, 'You pick the person who gets you elected. If you want me to go to Omaha and get a point, I'll do that. You just tell me what to do.' So, I always approached it as it's public. If this isn't my concern this year, and especially around making a decision to run again, um, my number one concern was we needed to hold the seat, not for me to sit in the seat, but for us to hold the seat. And now Republicans are totally screwed because they're not going to win any elections in Minnesota. And so I... here's my advice to young people, and I've told my team this, in these jobs and the decisions you have to make, whether it's at 4:00 a.m. to know your best friend had been killed or to watch George Floyd or those things, you elected me to make those decisions to the best of my ability, surround myself with people who could make good decisions. But I say the way you manage the stress on this is I know we make every decision in the best interest of Minnesotans. We try and do it as ethically and as obviously following the law as possible. That's the way you sleep at night knowing you did the best you possibly can in it. Because I've asked, I don't know how some of these people sleep and it might be what you said. They're shameless. They don't have a conscience. But I would tell young people, and it's what we need, um, they've got horrible role models right now in many cases. But there are public servants out there serving and there's numerous ways you can do this. Whether it was to be on those streets, whether it was to be in those food banks, whether it was to be standing at the bus stops helping kids, whether it was writing letters, whether it was donating to the Immigrant Law Center who's doing incredible work. Find a way to contribute because I think what Donald Trump did and what social media in a modern world has done, why we should be more connected, we feel more isolated. And I always said this as a coach, I knew this, that people, it wasn't about the X's and O's. It was about being part of something bigger. And I know that sports gets overblown the analogy, but Trump figured out...
You get a pass, but go ahead.
Well, Trump figured it out. Make people go to those rallies because it's a place they want to go. He even gave them a uniform in the red hats and he made them feel like they were part of something. Um, what you saw in Minneapolis was community is still real. It is still there. There are still places you can go, places you can contribute. Find your community, contribute to it, make a difference because I think all of us know, every research does this, it's far better to give and to help. And Minnesotans, by the way, none of this surprised the people in this room because it's all a correlation to highest voter turnout, highest volunteer rates, highest donations to charity. That's what we do. So...
Very, very last question.
If I had to do it again, I think I would have used harsher language. But, um, don't norm... Patel, that little dude jumping around. I...
We have to, and again, there's something about it, that belonging, whatever. And I don't want to say it like flippantly or whatever, but people want to be part of an organization that they're proud of, that things are happening. Um, we have the capacity to do that. And one of the things that's more challenging for us, they set a small parameter and you either conform or you're out of the cult. With us, we're proud of our broad big tent. Um, but that also means, um, we're going to have to figure out ways to make people feel more a part of it. And so I think there's somebody out there. Look, there's a lot of exciting people out there, which, and again, I swore this, Scott, that I would never bet on Beto. He's one of my dearest friends. And after the last time Beto ran, I said, 'I'm not putting another penny in Texas. Damn it. It's taking money away.' Now we got James Talarico. I said, 'Okay, I'm putting a penny in there.' So...
Anyway, I want everybody to thank Governor Walz.
Yes. Great. Thank you. Thank you. That was great. We really appreciate it. I liked his socks. His Minnesota socks. Did you see them?
You want to see mine? A little different. Says 100% that [__].
I'm not running anything but my mouth tonight. Anyway. All right. Well, we need to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll get to some of the latest headlines.
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Scott, we're back recording live from the Pantages Theater in Minneapolis.
Let's get to some news starting with Target. It's one of the biggest employers here. I know. I know. It's one of the biggest employers here in Minnesota. It's been getting heat for not pushing back on ICE and the Trump administration. Two Minnesota Target employees who are US citizens were detained by federal agents back in January, fueling protests and boycotts. Target's new CEO gave an interview to the AP this week. He said the company is working to, quote, 'win back trust' and that employee and guest safety is their, quote, 'north star.' I have never heard such [__] nonsense in my life. Like, and I interview a lot of people and I knew Brian Cornell who used to run it for a long time because I covered retail and I thought that interview was the worst interview I've seen in a while. It said nothing. It was all talking points. It went out on no limbs. It was not brave. It wasn't genuine. Um, and people have a great emotional relationship with Target. They have over the years. I mean, there's other issues they have, but, um, I thought it was a real missed opportunity for a CEO not to have a fresh start. Um, Brian had been tarnished and rightly so for dumping gay flags as if that's the biggest deal in the [__] world. Um, and it was an opportunity missed. Um, obviously there's secular issues happening around retail, but Target for a while was really on a tear. Your thoughts?
Yeah, last century. Um...
Like Target. Target's a great company. They carved out a great position. The last 20 years they've returned about 7% a year. S&P's up 16%. Walmart's up 23. Uh, so the bottom line is Target has vastly underperformed the market. And that's what's such a shame. I look at this through a shareholder lens. That was a big opportunity because I think the biggest commercial opportunity, I've been saying this for six months, is for someone to elegantly, in a non-personal way, basically to say no and demonstrate that we have stronger fidelity to our stakeholders and the constitution without being personally vindictive around the Trump administration. This is a huge opportunity and it looks like Dario Amodei is taking it in the last week when he kind of refused to comply with certain Trump administration... He's since backpedaled a little bit, but the annual recurring revenue of Anthropic has gone from 14 to 19 billion. So, the opportunity for someone to push back was enormous. And quite frankly, the CEO of Target missed an enormous opportunity because right now what this city deserves is spine, not spin. And this was just such a lost opportunity. And I'm going to name-drop because I'm desperate for your affirmation, but I've worked with probably 150 of the Fortune 500 CEOs at some point in my career and whenever they put out a press release, I know exactly what happened here. This was a press release that was gangbanged by about a dozen $800-an-hour communications consultants that were worried about different interpretations. I used to write CEOs' press releases in their IR and I'm like, no more than two people can work on this because it'll get diluted into nothingness. And also what I like to remind CEOs of is when they get stressed out about saying something or potentially offending shareholders, I'm like, 'Dude, you're already rich and you're going to be dead soon. So why wouldn't you say something?' This was such an enormous opportunity to basically stand up for employees. He would have been a national hero. So many people would have said, 'You know what? I think I'm going to shop at Target this week.' This was the mother of all missed opportunities for shareholders. So why do you... again, besides the, um...
I like that, spine not spin. You spent all day thinking that one up.
Um, but when you have that, when they didn't do that, because again there are secular issues around retail we all know and we are aware of, and that even Walmart, which was the juggernaut, is only up 23%. But what would you... when this person has worked there most of his career, right? As a career person. How difficult right now is it for CEOs to do things like that? Because you keep saying there's going to be more and more of them. And Dario did backpedal a little bit, like he said he's called Trump a dictator, which is technically accurate. Um, but he kind of walked back saying I shouldn't have been so rash. Uh, he's still suing the government for the behavior.
